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nutrinoQuote
MarkusWelch
Please be careful with the 'bushitler' stuff while you make your 'cults are bad' points.
[b:942dfcf092] I am in no way equating Bush with Hitler. Nothing here was intended to equate Bush with Hitler. [/b:942dfcf092] My point was that closed off, self referential, power hungry groups and organizations can make some awfully bad decisions when they loose vital infotrmation and persepective inputs from outside (whatever it is they define as) their comfort zone....
If there is any equivalance here, it is that, as a piece of military strategy, the invasion of the Soviet Union was doomed by the refusal of Hitler to learn from history... as he appeared to be guided by an "infallible instinct" and led by what appeared to be a kind of psychotic charisma...
The decision to invade Iraq appears to have been a case of civilian ideologues... who nobody has said were Nazis... particularly Donald Rumsfeld.... overroad the collective decision process of military professionals because he was a "true believer" in a new doctrine of the swift, agile, light war that replaced the Powell Doctrine with the idea that extreme precision air wars and special forces type infiltrations would supercede the concept of overwhelming force advocated by Powell.
You WOULD have thought that Rumsfeld would have learned a thing or two about assymetric war from the Vietnam era and maybe a thing or three about the need for strong [b:942dfcf092] HUMINT [/b:942dfcf092] ... good local intelligence so you could look into the other side's playbook....
But, noooooooooo.
And now, good citizens... we are about to attempt an invasion of a mountainous, rugged land (Irag is a very flat river plain for the most part) many times larger than Iraq.... when we are already overextended ?
You have to wonder.... how DO they think these things up ?
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MarkusWelch
Your characterizations of power-hungry etc is not in good faith, IMO.
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MarkusWelch
Do dictatorships have a moral right to exist? There's your bonus question.
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MarkusWelch
Of course you don't think so, right?
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MarkusWelch
You're an observant and articulate person Nutrino. But we're not over-extended
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MarkusWelch
Nevertheless you 'bought' the democrat talking points, and you do the servicemen and women great harm in the process.
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MarkusWelch
What is one to think when DKOS prints things like "Al Gore, our elected president." ???????? Or 'screw them'. Remember that? That was in reference to 4 US citizens killed, their bodies burned and then hanged from a bridge.
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MarkusWelch
That is DKOS.
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MarkusWelch
The guy is a lunatic.
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MarkusWelch
Let's not turn this into a political war. Leave your political comments out unless they have some specific relation to the discussion.
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MarkusWelch
If you feel they can't be left out...start a new thread and as two gentlemen and anti-cult posters we can discuss the political issues.
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MarkusWelch
It should be noted that Markos Moulitsas Zuniga (Dkos) is a far-left moonbat.[/q]
Are you disputing the facts or assertions of the article?
Ellen
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MarkusWelch
I'm not going to debate politics with you here. That is and has been my point Nutrino.
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elena
Are you disputing the facts or assertions of the article?
Ellen
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nutrinoQuote
MarkusWelch
I'm not going to debate politics with you here. That is and has been my point Nutrino.
[b:f26c2373cb] You don't appear to be too sharp about taking your own advice. [/b:f26c2373cb]Debating politics is exactly what you have engaged. Do whatever turns you on. I raised the national leadership issue [i:f26c2373cb] because [/i:f26c2373cb] it is my considered opinion that [i:f26c2373cb] cult or cult formed dynamics [/i:f26c2373cb] have had a meaningful impact on our political culture... so it is a false distinction to say that you have a cult discussion on one hand and a political discussion on the other and never the twain shall meet... I know, firsthand experience in Washington DC, about certain elements of this that I'm not going to publish in this forum... if you don't like my way of thinking, well, there are many places where you can comfortably preach to the choir... [b:f26c2373cb] you sling a lot of half baked rhetoric then you can't back it up [/b:f26c2373cb]... which is itself a distinguishing characteristic of the cult style ... all of which is fairly indicative that [b:f26c2373cb] you're the same apologist-shill-troll-headcase that keeps turning up here with some frequency... [/b:f26c2373cb] ... in slightly different sock puppet garb... drilling for outrage... looking for a wedge issue... but each time, stoking the dabate then running for cover while never actually getting substantive at the level of the dabate...[b:f26c2373cb] kind of an Erhardian manoeuver, ya know... we seen it before... [/b:f26c2373cb]
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elena
Are you disputing the facts or assertions of the article?
Ellen
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nutrino
What I understand all to clearly is that it is possible to label, or categorize certain discussions as off limits because they are "political"... [i:48680788cf] as if that indicates a sacroscant status... [/i:48680788cf] ... and I have a firm counterpoint to this assertion... that the "political" isn't such an airtight category, that a multitude of "non-political" issues do impinge on this sacred cow of a topic... and the reverse dynamic can be in play... previously "non-political" issues can become politicized, such as the theory of evolution.. or when and where one can invoke a Deity (take your pick) ... or what constitutes "free speech" ... or what is the boundary between the personal and the public... or what you can and cannot do with an osteoblast... and the list goes on, and on, and on... so if we're going to have a wide open discussion of the impact of cult thinking, cult methods, cult stylisitcs we're also going to net some interesting fish in the process... just because you're displeased with my opinions doesn't make them "in bad faith" ... [b:48680788cf] when I turn around and give you a spoon of your own bad faith characterization you didn't seem to like it too much [/b:48680788cf], how unfair of me, yet you feel at liberty to characterize my perspective as being in bad faith... so don't be too surprised when your boomerangs come back to ding you in the head...
So far you haven't made a substantive response to anything except that "politics don't belong here" [b:48680788cf] while daintily avoiding any precision in your complaints [/b:48680788cf]... after making some rather vigorous assertions about the nature of some other persons...
Which all leads me to believe, whatever your role or agenda is, that you are investing a good deal of effort in foreclosing this line of thought... which then leads to some rather intriguing possibilities...
As for your character.... adjectives like [i:48680788cf] rigid , stubborn, self satisfied, and unreflective [/i:48680788cf] come to mind... although I'm sure we'll be getting to know you better in the near future...