I remember there always being an assumption that the TIT trainers and staff had the "inside scoop" as to what really happened with the "Restoration of the Gospel." I remember people saying they had past lives as early latter-day saints, like Brigham Young, Emma and Hyrum Smith for example. Hans used to say the trainings are a continuation of the School of Prophets if I remember correctly. He would quote that conversation between Brigham and Joseph, Joseph telling him that if Brigham knew everything that he had been shown, he would seek to take his life or some such. Then Hans would say "But we (meaning Impact) KNOW now..." They even promote the nonsense about Mary Magdalene being married to Christ. Impact Mormons, or the TITLDS, usually believe they are on the Inside Track to the Celestial Kingdom. They can have it.

Here is a TIT3 story:
Once upon a time apparently (I will paraphrase) Hans Berger visited an LDS church for the first time in his life. And when the priesthood holding speaker opened his mouth, a cloud appeared, and enveloped Hans' consciousness. This was the first time Hans had summoned this silvery, biblically referenced cloud. This cloud represented truth and transmutation, and since it was spoken by this Priesthood holder, Hans converted to Mormonism. We would summon this cloud on a semi-regular basis in TIT.

But remember, Impact's trainings are not based in LDS dogma. And they are not inspired by LDS teachings. All truth is universal... :\

One thing that has bothered me as of late are the philosophical writings of Blake Ostler (An Impact graduate). He has created this apparently unique body of work concerning LDS thought, and has based it all on Hans Berger's Theodicy. Talk about building your house upon the sand. He doesn't even credit the Berger's or Impact for this, and almost all of his stuff is riddled with Impactian dogma and ideas, and he does not credit them for his apparent inspiration and erudication of LDS religious dialog, and LDS thinkers read his "original" journals with interest. Plagiarism for self-interest seems to be a theme for well-to-do Impact grads. Like the Harmony-Great Life thing. Oh wait, ARE they the same company? Or is the jury still out? Sounds like chicken-before-the-egg stuff to me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2007 06:01PM by exImpact.

Quote
exImpact
One thing that has bothered me as of late are the philosophical writings of Blake Ostler (An Impact graduate). He has created this apparently unique body of work concerning LDS thought, and has based it all on Hans Berger's Theodicy. Talk about building your house upon the sand. He doesn't even credit the Berger's or Impact for this, and almost all of his stuff is riddled with Impactian dogma and ideas, and he does not credit them for his apparent inspiration and erudication of LDS religious dialog, and LDS thinkers read his "original" journals with interest. Plagiarism for self-interest seems to be a theme for well-to-do Impact grads. Like the Harmony-Great Life thing. Oh wait, ARE they the same company? Or is the jury still out? Sounds like chicken-before-the-egg stuff to me.

Let me explain, I admit to writing this in anger. Ostler does have a few arguments and compelling ideas concerning LDS theology. But I really just wanted to say that some of his work is obviously unoriginal to anyone who has been through Quest, Summit and Lift-Off, and he has not come forward and admitted that these ideas are not originally his own. My thought about this is that if he were to be honest about the source of some of his ideas, they would serve to discredit him. I mean, Impact? Hans Berger? Hardly prestigious references for any journal.

Source of Blake Ostler’s ideas

I was about to pose a question to exImpact about the level of training Ostler may have had in Impact. Then I noticed that he was in LO-107, and as “chairman” of that group presented a check for $15,000 to the Foundation for Change to support work on women’s eating disorders. A question as to whether he attended TIT remains. A quick look at one Deseret Book outlet found that Ostler’s work is cataloged by Deseret, but no copies of his work were on the shelf. I had no intention of buying such without checking further.

Anyway, I thank exImpact for talking about Ostler, about whom I was unaware. I found a brief search on the Web about his work to be most interesting. I wonder if he may have gotten some of his notions from the same place the Berger’s seem to have done, i.e. Werner Erhard, Alexander Everett, William Penn Patrick, or the flock of angels that may have visited the trainings. In any case failure to credit one’s source is discrediting.

Several have posted here stating that because of the trance induced state of their minds during the trainings, they had some difficulty remembering clearly the detail they would like to talk about. Clinical psychology has been used to put crime victims under hypnosis with great success in getting at the facts of their victimization. I suggest that the same techniques would be successful in teasing out of the memories of Impact grads at all levels to bring out the wide range of detail that we are just seeing a glimpse of here. Until that happens, I plan to ask a few more questions about the troubling, problematic, malignant thing called LGAT and its Impact variant.

In another place it states Ostler's LO number was 127 rather than 107.

Blake Ostler's Impact on LDS Church literature

I went to the Church Web page, LDS.org, and searched the all literature section and found the folowing comparitive data on some authors:

Dallin Oaks--Member of The 12-----------------------748 articles

Gerald Lund--prolific author of the "Work and the Glory" and member of the Second Quorum of the 70.---------------------------------------47 articles

Blake Ostler----------------------------------------------zero articles

From other sources however; I know that F. Enzio Bushe, Emeritis General Authority and former member of the First Q. of 70, is an active LDSTIT person. Feedback from another person in authority indicates he is a bit of a loose cannon in the eyes of his brethern. Should we be surprised at that? This is great information about Ostler; and though all may not be well in Zion, things are much better than if Impact false and vain and foolish doctrine may be creeping into Church literature.

Hopeful

As a P.S., The number of literature citations for Bushe is three. I bet we don't see any more as long as Busche is active in LDSTIT or LDSLMT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2007 03:00AM by Hopeful Soul.

The following link is to an article about a "Life Coach" who was just arrested in Utah County. (I also posted another version of this message in a new topic, but thought I'd repeat it here with Impact-specific information.)

[deseretnews.com]

Among other things is says:

>>"We got complaints that (she was) practicing mental health therapy without a license," said Jennifer Bolton, DOPL spokeswoman. "After we looked into it, she came in and signed a cease and desist order . . . (and) admitted to practicing without a license. . . . "She was claiming she was a coach, not a counselor, that's how she was trying to get around the legislation," said Guy Probert, the deputy Utah County attorney."<<


I know many, many TIT3ers as well as many employees of Impact and all its local spin-offs, offer services which, at least seem to me, to be identical to what this "Life coach" was doing.

I urge everyone who has ever received any damage from any "coaching" from Impact/GLF/Harmony/Rising Star/VisionWorks/The Experience, etc, "coaches" or "trainers" to contact the Utah State Attorney General's office now.

From [attorneygeneral.utah.gov]

>>>The Attorney General’s Commercial Enforcement Division enforces laws that protect consumers and businesses, including laws that prohibit deception, fraud, misrepresentation, or concealment of facts in the sale or advertisement of goods and services. The office works closely with the Utah Division of Consumer Protection to investigate and prosecute violations of these laws. <<<<


When I think back to what was said in the Guest Presentations about what Quest to TIT3 would look like, compared to what I experienced, the phrase "or concealment of facts in the sale or advertisement of goods and services" really hits home.

Same thing when I think about the sales pitch at the end of Quest for Summit (Awakening to Brilliance; Brilliance to Great Life; Great Life to Founders, Journey to Crossroads, Crossroads to Horizons etc, etc). Those pitches were clearly full of deception, fraud, misrepresentations and especially:

"Concealment of the facts . . . in the sale of a . . . service."


More from [attorneygeneral.utah.gov]:

>>>>>>>

To make a complaint about a business [consumerprotection.utah.gov]
To review Utah’s consumer laws [www.consumerprotection.utah.gov]
To read more about common types of fraud, including telemarketing fraud, fraudulent sweepstakes, and business scams [consumerprotection.utah.gov]

Questions, Complaints, Requests, or Suggestions
General Office Numbers: (801) 366-0260, (801) 538-9600, (801) 366-0300
Toll Free within the State of Utah: (800) AG4 INFO (244-4636)
E-Mail: uag@utah.gov

Please leave your name, phone number or address so you can be contacted.


Utah State Capitol Office
Office of the Attorney General
Utah State Capitol Complex
East Office Bldg, Suite 320
SLC UT 84114-2320

Utah State Capitol Office Mailing Address
Office of the Attorney General
PO Box 142320
SLC UT 84114-2320


<<<<<<<<<<<

Bottom line: If not you, who? If not now, when?

I read the article you referenced in your post Ed, along with all of the posts attached to that article. It certainly seems from the article and posts that the primary issues in question had more to do with misrepresentations about licensing. Great thought, but I'm not sure how applicable those allegations are to LGAT coaches, unless they are claiming to have state licensing for therapy. I do agree that many coaches from LGAT trainings are coaching more from theory than experience, and often their coaching is superficial and flawed. Having said that, I think you're being overzealous with your legal interpretation. I would be interested in the state interpretation of the types of issues that would require licenture vs. the types of issues that would be generally be considered "coachable". There must be some distinction. The other issue is the compensation. As far as I know, Impact "Coaches" aren't compensated, which really limits their legal exposure, according the to article and it's responses. The interpretation you are applying would affect churches, families and others who give advice even though they are unqualified. Perhaps if Hans, Sally or other trainers claimed education or licensing that was inaccurate or misrepresenting their qualifications you would have something. They make lots of wild claims, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Very interesting article. It's the first time I've ever seen an action like this.

A few points to consider (after reading the many, many reader posts attached to the Deseret News article.)

- How does the licensing bureau respond to coaching or "life coaching" services that are uncompensated (such as Lift-off Coaches?) I imagine that they have no interest in volunteer coaching. They probably care only when it is "occupational."
- The Utah Attorney General is probably not interested in the licensing issue. The article notes that it is the Utah County attorney who is pursuing the unlicensed therapist (allegedly.)
- There are other life coaches and quasi-therapists who should be looked at as well in Utah, including Gary Acevedo.
- One of the reader posts in the Deseret News seemed to have the 411 on life coaching versus therapy. She mentioned that the division of licensing looks for certain "key phrases" related strictly to psychological therapy that, if a life coaches uses these terms, then they are at-risk of being cited as a non-licensed therapist. It would be interesting to know what those phrases and concepts are.
- Many life-coaching endeavors are NOT considered therapy nor do they require licensure. For example, Rick Ross provides cult programming interventions (similar to drug interventions, apparently) that are held without professional licensing. That's not uncommon. It would be worthwhile to post the "though shalt nots" on this forum as to life coaching compared to therapy.

>>I think you're being overzealous with your legal interpretation<<

Perhaps.

But many of these "coaches" and "trainers" use the LGATs as recruiting grounds for their own "extra" personal coaching sessions on the side.

Anyone care to share about your experience with that? Maybe not here (no need to put them on guard) but directly with the AG's office?

-----Ed