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Passionate
You'll get no argument from me that these same dynamics are used in all other trainings, and I am sure you experienced them at Klemmer.

Not just Klemmer, but the many others also being shared on this website.

Plus it goes alot deeper than just dynamics in comparison.

Thanks for finally recognizing this aspect.

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SaneAgain
I have a question about how group dynamics are manipulated in the trainings and I thought I'd ask it on this thread, because there are so many members here with significant experience staffing trainings.

Is there an explicit plan to set up different group members in the trainings with specific roles... e.g. leader, scapegoat, good model, bad model etc? If so how is this played on by the trainers and staffers?

I don't mean the use of specific character roles as in stretches, but more of a general assignment of role and status that lasts throughout a particular course.

No, I never got the impression that trainees were being set up to play specific roles however trainees were often sorted and categorized very quickly based on their behaviors.

In line with what people were stating about the overall LGAT process, in MKP, the scapegoat was found by assigning a large number of rules that someone would violate. The weekend I attended, one of the guys forgot to bring food, and he was singled out as having failed the group. The idea was that he was used as a real life lesson in asking for forgiveness. But it was a manufactured situation that set up the authority of the people in charge of the weekend. The MKP approach was to attach this huge negative meaning to innocuous actions, attitudes, etc. that people had. I know a typical LGAT teaching is that what we think about an event is stripped away from the event itself, adn this may seem to contradict that. I don't believe it does, as the same goal of breaking down what YOU thought about the even is still there. They certainly don't want you to come to your own conclusions about the value of what they're doing.

Thank you Passionate and formerimpactgrad. I feel I'm missing something significant about the group dynamics, but I don't know what - not what I thought though! Thanks for clarifying this for me.

I think we made some people mad. The last two days have been an onslaught of spam on this particular thread about LGAT's.

We made someone mad. Oh Yeah... Lets keep the truth coming out about these garbage LGAT's

Rick will figure out how to resolve this attack... Let's keep sharing the truth...

Onslaught? Spam? Has Rick denied the posts? Is he not posting them because they have an apologist slant to them? I say let them come.

So I was talking to my friend who went through the first 3 trainings at Impact, and they mentioned something about Summit (the 2nd training).

My friend said that in Summit, everyone is given a degrading nickname. She said one person in her group was called: "[i:462a5c0098]Grandpa's Joy Toy[/i:462a5c0098]". :shock:

What are some of the nicknames from your summit groups? Does this nickname replace the participants real name for a time? Rs and Sane, did they do this at InQuest and Klemmer, too?

Its called an alternate name. It is derived form a painful experience from that person's past. "Grandpa's Joy Toy" might be given to someone who was sexually abused by their grandpa. This name is used for about a day in place of their real name.

The staff all get together on one of the breaks and sit in the lunchroom discussing these shared experiences and then pick a name that fits that person. It is meant to evoke an emotional response. I have seen people cry and refuse to use the name because it brought back some bad memories.

Other names:
Will Cry for Food
Husband's Doormat
Use me, Abuse me
Mormon Misfit
Iron Maiden
Polyanna Puke
Call Me Bitch, but Call Me

There is a long 4-page list used for suggestion. Dang if I have forgotten most of them.

The REAL Purpose of Life

The favorite canned, trite phrase of Impact trainers is surely, “The purpose of life is to learn.” Further, in TIT and even earlier, trainees are taught that a loving god would not loose any of his children, no matter what. In order to debunk these two notions I will need to refer to some LDS scripture which will show at least what LDS folks in Impact Trainings have been taught. I never cease to be amazed by how readily LDS folks are duped by Impact through clever seduction to believe their guile.

Here is the scripture from Abraham, in the Pearl of Great Price, unmingled with the philosophies of men (Impact). Abraham 3:25-26 says, “And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.”

For those who do not already know it, the LDS religion is a do it religion. Spencer Kimball had the theme “Do it” on his desk. He went so far as to have the words to a favorite LDS hymn, “I Am a Child of God” changed to fit this doctrine. Originally it had the line ...Teach me all that I must know, to be with him some day. The word know was changed to “do.” It’s the faith versus works argument; that is, LDS folks believe that you are saved by grace, only after doing all that you can do. The purpose of life therefore for a Mormon is not to learn, as Impact says, but to prove who will pass the obedience to God test. Also there is differential reward based on performance here, not the universal reward taught by the religion of Impact. Thus with this one short scripture, two of the main pillars of the special Impact theology are shot to Hell!

While on the subject of learning I want to draw a comparison between two institutions of learning, Impact Trainings and Hamilton University of Evanston Wyoming. The first is a diploma-less diploma mill that denies that it is a religion, the second is a true diploma mill, not a church, that claims to be a church. The Wyoming State Legislature and regulatory agencies have taken action to put a stop to the flagrant fraud of Hamilton University that may have some lessons to be learned for Utah in dealing with the Impact issue. Check out Hamilton University on the Web. There is tons of information about it that will make interesting reading about entities who make fraudulent learning claims. I will have more to say on this soon.

Hopeful

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unresolved
I don't believe it does, as the same goal of breaking down what YOU thought about the even is still there. They certainly don't want you to come to your own conclusions about the value of what they're doing.

LOL yeah, I DARE a person in TIT 1 to ask Hans Berger for proof or support for his outrageous claims. I triple [i:754c08cc3f]DOG[/i:754c08cc3f] dare ya. I triple stamp that dare, with no erasies.

For anyone who is interested, I am still planning a detailed analysis of the core and mastery trainings. It will get done sooner as opposed to later, but of course, that is relative. I am working on research concerning social psychological experiments that were done in the 50’s-70’s with groups of people (as well as with other psychological and philosophical theories). I want to illustrate the parallels that occur in the trainings with many of the findings of those unethical experiments. I want the summary of processes to have the tone of a fairly legitimate analysis as opposed to an arbitrary rant. Cheers all.
ex