pkaltmaier I wouldnt be surprised if your friend did lose her job. In fact these people encourage people to pursue their dreams even if it means losing their job too do it. There was a countless number of people who made it their goal to quit their job and pursue their dream.

Firebrand I agree that they do target Christians. They were advertising that they do these seminars for churches etc.

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phong
Firebrand I dont know if you have been on a retreat to the mountains with your church. But it is the same experience almost. Except for a Church camp retreat you pay only 80 -100 dollars for the same experience at Personal mastery. My own company has a personal development class and it only cost 75 bucks and that was by far better. When the facilitator kept mentioning that we payed $10000 bucks for this class. I thought she was literally insane. WHY WOULD I PAY $10000 DOLLARS to learn SELF HELP. In fact I already knew all this self help material. It got so boring that I literally fell asleep in front of the facilitator. She was UPSET and start lecturing me about how CRAPPY MY LIFE WAS..and that I had TO LISTEN TO HER...to CHANGE MY LIFE?!?!?!?!?! REALLY?!?! All I have to say to people thinking about signing up for this course. DONT. Its a waste of your money.

I've never been to a retreat to the mountains with a church. However, the last day of personal mastery (sunday) I went to a church and had much joy compared to when I was at personal mastery:-) I agree that attending personal mastery is not money spent wisely.

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phong
Hey Firebrand seriously you can experience the things at church for free. Its really up too you. GO to your pastor and he can give you some very good advice. Go share with a c hurch member you memories and your hurts...Go gather a bunch of believers and play some games....Go find some brothers and set some goals up...Go find some brothers and go to lunch. BAM right there is a klemmer experience set up all for free..with your fellow brothers.

Excellent point...however based on my experience with Personal Master-Klemmer, hopefully there WOULD NOT be visualization, borderline hypnosis and mind control techniques at this church which do not align with a Christian belief system.

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phong
pkaltmaier yeah did sicken me too the way they mind gamed them into signing up...so this is how it happened...

Facilitator: Now were going to play a game or excercise to see what kind of programs you have (programs are pretty much who you are) Staff can you please hand out the sign up sheets for advanced leadership training. Now I want you guys to put on your credit card information. Im not asking you guys to sign up. Its your choice. But while your going through this process of deciding see what programs are holding you back from you signing up. It could be the same thing in life what are some programs holding you back from success?

(They put on some music for us to think about it. Then she comes back)

Facilitator: Now if you dont sign up today you cannot get the 600 dollar discount for advanced where you learn to break your programs down. The programs that are holding you back from success. So you can get it for 1700 dollars rather then 2300 if you leave this place not turning in your form.

(Some of the members now are mind gamed. People who didnt want to go suddenly are confused into turning the form in. Im not going to lie. EVEN I WAS STRUGGLING)

I just wanted to mention this too you guys because literally I almost spent 1700 dollars on stuff I could learn in a book. Then I would have to go through a even more mind control business tactic at Advanced where they would say the next step is Heart which is 3300 dollars.. So WATCH OUT FOR THESE TACTICS. I WANT YOU GUYS TO CHOOSE NOT BY BEING RUSHED AND MIND GAMED.

The whole program for this Klemmer to be a graduate or PHD is 10000 dollars. To learn a value of 150 bucks on books and other affordable seminars that you can find in a church or in your company.

Phong,

My experience with this part of the seminar was very similar to yours. I completely agree with you!

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phong
pkaltmaier I wouldnt be surprised if your friend did lose her job. In fact these people encourage people to pursue their dreams even if it means losing their job too do it. There was a countless number of people who made it their goal to quit their job and pursue their dream.

Firebrand I agree that they do target Christians. They were advertising that they do these seminars for churches etc.

Phong,

I appreciate the confirmation of my experience with Klemmer regarding advertising and targeting. How many did you attend?

well I only attended Personal Mastery and there was about 40-50 people. I heard that it usually is bigger ranging from 100-200 people.

Yes, I had a lot less too...like 20-30.

I have gone through all the seminars and the overall result of this influence on my life has been one of total destruction as I embraced what I believe to be a strong humanistic philosphy embedded in Klemmers seminars.

Hind sight is always 20/20 and now looking back this past couple of years. I have identified where I embraced the humanistic element and was not even aware that I did.

As I stepped into and applied the tool of "Intention + Mechanism = Results" in my life.

This is where I openned myself up and became enmeshed in humanism this past year.

I am a 44 year old man and have destroyed all areas of my life with trying to apply Klemmer & Associates tools in my life.

I have a long hard road of sorting out the humanistic elements that I chose to expose myself to in Klemmer seminars.

I have tried to write several postings with more detail and for whatever reason would lose them when I went to post.

I will make this one short.

In my opinion, that is based on the perspective of going through all these seminars.

I will do all that is within my power encourage everyone that I can communicate with.

I strongly encourage anyone not to attend any and all Klemmer & Associates seminars or anything remotely connected to it.

That is just my recommendation based on my experience of going through them, and what it created in my life.

Especially in the recognizing hindsight how I unknowingly stepped into humanism and living in this philosphy for almost 2 years.

I have been a Christian for 30 years, and I believe He has confronted me with my embracing humanism in my life.

Now its time to allow for God to bring healing to the huge destruction from my decision to attend all of Klemmers seminars. It will be a process of identifying the humanism embedded in me from these seminars.

90 percent truth, and 10 lies is usually how occults like to operate.

I will post more if anyone wants to hear. Let me know

As a person who has gone through all the 4 seminars and applied these emotional tools in my life in a manner that has utterly destroyed it in all areas.

I am amazed that it is so true that hindsight is 20/20.

Klemmer & Associates will state that all they do is give people tools to use. How people use these tools is each persons choice and Klemmer is not responsible for how people apply things to their lives.

I can't even argue with that logic. Because in that context they are absolutely right. They are right to say that the destruction that has been created in my life was from choices that I made.

So with this made clear that I am at cause for the destruction in my life. Let me take things a step further and state that Klemmer & Associates are at the same time accountable for how these seminars are affecting lives overall.

In my opinion its the same as holding an adult liable and responsible for giving a very young child a loaded hand gun. Then walking away. Then later hearing the child accidently shot and killed himself with it. This adult then refuses to take responsibility for this accident and continues to hand loaded hand guns to more children. Not all children hurt themselves and even some grow up to be responsible adults. Which then gets used to justify this adults choice to give children loaded hand guns.

I know this is extreme. But in my opinion it is equivalent to what is going on with Klemmer & Associates seminars.

Klemmer did really well in the corporate level in companies with these seminars. Klemmer is exploding with growth as these seminars have been moved into the public domain with people on all levels of emotional and economical levels.

This is where things get muddied and my example of the hand gun comes into play.

All I can do is use myself as an example here to be responsible in what I am going to say.

Even though Klemmer has really good tools that if applied in proper manner in my life. They would produce really good results in my life.

After all the destruction that is a direct result of my applying these tools in my life. I recognize in hindsight where I made huge mistakes that where directly connected to my own emotional unhealthiness.

I signed a waiver though that released Klemmer from all liability of any damages to my life including emotional damage.

Yet, in my emotional unhealth I chose to remain in seminars that dealt intensively in the emotional and psyche of mine and other paricipants lives. I chose to allow a company that is not trained or professionally licenced in dealing with people in this fashion.

Klemmer has paricipants sign waivers releasing them of emotional damage and then commence in going into the depths of this aspect in participants lives.

They then get to step back and be innocent of any and all emotional or other harm that is created from the application of these emotional tools.

While at the same time use the good results in people lives to promote and sell their seminars to the public to influence people to attend seminars.

But just as this is what I am seeing as bieng extremely irresponsible in Klemmer at the company level. This is also the same irresponsiblity that is produced in most participants that go through these seminars.

Leaving people in a place of not taking responsibility for what they are creating when the results are negative especially within relational environments.

Suffering is optional as Klemmer says. Sometimes the suffering needs to be looked at with my allowing myself to ask myself what part of the suffering is being caused by how I am showing up and needs to be addressed within myself that is causing another person to be frustrated with me.

Which is a very healthy way to operate within relationships with other people.

Some participants in Klemmer are able to apply the tools with this in mind and it produces good results.

Many unfortunately use Klemmer tools as ways to not look at themselves and use the tools to manipulate and control others with them.

Sounds like many of these posts to this subject string have ran into the participants who are choosing to use Klemmer tools to manipulate and control verses using in relationally healthy fashion.

Klemmer does not have any gate keeping mechanisms in place to prevent emotionally unhealthy people that should not attend their seminars in place at this time.

I say this from a place of being totally responsible. I am such a person that went through Klemmer and was not emotionally healthy enough properly apply these tools in a manner that did not destroy my life.

I am now going to professional counseling and picking up the pieces of my life that is a direct result of being emotionally ignorant in my life.

I am paying some very high prices for my emotional unhealth that made me a prime mark for Klemmer & Associates mind altering and control seminars.

I signed the waiver though. So Klemmer is not liable for the destruction in my life that is a direct result of their very powerful emotional influence on my life.

I believe the goverment should shut down these companies. These companies need to leave people alone and let the professionals that are properly trained in dealing with peoples emotions and psyche do this type of work in peoples lives.

Professionals are liable for malpractice suits agianst them. Why should companies who choose to mess with the psyche of participants in these seminars not be held liable.

I now know that anytime a company has you sign a waiver to release them from all emotional damages that can be connected to them.

BUYER BEWARE This waiver is not present because there has not been people harmed emotionally in the past.

Its there because people have been harmed emotionally and the company legally protecting their hind end.