This is interesting:
[groups.yahoo.com]

They even have their own petition with all the reforms they want from Landmark...

This is simply delightful, a Landmarkian quasi-reformer who, [i:856f07390a] quelle suprise [/i:856f07390a] manages to talk out of both sides of his mouth while thinking he's just sunk on in the 18th hole of truth:

"What is intended to redeem the practice is that over the weeks you are to
transmute the self-hyped excitemnt into genuine enthusiasm.. It's .. fake it and then...make it.

I've always been struck about how well it works. Some, such as you, seem better attuned than I to how well it does not work.

Where we agree I think is in desiring to find ways to shift toward greater
authenticity. I would compare this to, say, training in acting. A superb actor is being paradigmatically INauthentic in one way -- these are not his words, not his actions AT ALL --and yet there is something extremely authentic about superb acting. Anything we can do to move more people more quickly into THAT realm is precious.

It is my experience in seminars that the strong individual "voice" that goes
beyond the base conversation adds immensely. When everyone is submerged intothe "Landmark voice," as it were, things are indeed much inferior. On the other hand the person trying to be a strong individual voice AGAINST the base conversation detracts. Maybe it's like a musical ensemble. Without the strong individual "voice" the result is not much. But the instrument that pulls against the ensemble instead of pulling the ensemble up is destructive.."

Oh, ya gotta luv this line, "I would compare this to, say, training in acting."

No shit, Sherlock. The thing about acting that waaay ain't Landmarque is that 1., actors are paid to act and they know it isn't real... even the hardcore method actors know when to step out of role, ans 2, the actor IS using his role to [i:856f07390a]consciously[/i:856f07390a] to ground it in personal reality for emotionally communicative purposes, but they aren't trying to become the things they portray, I don't want the guy who plays a cardiac surgeon on TV to do my bypass for me, thank you very much, but I do admire his ability to convey the emotional realities of the job, kinda sorta....

so, how, exactly do we define "the instrument that pulls against the ensemble"... I mean, who's in charge of that defining process, what constitutes "the instrument that pulls against the ensemble" and how do you distinguish that from (barf) "authenticity".... what's the distinction ? Who owns the distinction ? Who runs the frame here ?

Oh, snif, snif... "Some, such as you, seem better attuned than I to how well it does not work."

Some ? Who is "some"... the "inauthentic" ones ? The ones who just don't get it, or is "some' those who get it all too well ?

But, thanks for sharing anyway Tom

oh, right.... Bwahahahaha.... Velcome to Transylvania, my child....

"Guests add value to the impact of the course on the participants by being
there and inducing the participants to call themselves forth in sharing. Guests especially add value to the course for the individuals who invited them. It's like sharing a beautiful sunset with a friend. It really adds to one's own experience!

Guests add value to their own lives. Even if they hate the experience of
being a guest".....

Got it. Say no more. After the sunset the bats come out of the cave.

and this dazzling piece of logic:

"To say that car factories produce cars and Landmark produces transformed lives as not to say that Landmark participants come out having four wheels and going beep beep....."

Really ? You don't say .

back at genius central:

"I know you took TRS a long time ago (20 years?), and you appear
>fixated on how Wrong your leader was. I have shared in detail that the
>TRS offered today differs considerably from back then, but you don't
>acknowledge any part of that. You are still complaining to whoever will
>listen about what a bum deal you got, and I don't see the slightest
>interest on your part for getting that complete and putting it in the
>Past where it belongs. You appear to have a well-fortified Position in
>the matter, and you only listen for Agreement for how Right you are
>that your leader and Landmark are Wrong. You are getting a huge payoff
>from running this racket for so many years."

Fixated ! Dammit ! Fixated ! By Gum that's it!

here is the same old story again.
if u dont get it in landmark (become
a brainwashed follower ) then u are
running a racket.

same ole same ole.

spreading the word about cult is not running
a racket , its a public work.

egad... my brain is imploding:

"One final note to you Jennifer. You may be be as smart or smarter
than every forum leader, they are just more trained in distinctions,
it doesn't matter to bring ideas and suggestions. Thinking they must
have already thought of that is just suppressing yourself and
letting your conversation take over."

Uhhhhh.... thinking=suppressing yourself=letting your conversation take over ???? English, please.

The statistics is one of the things that people (always) zeroes in on when they have complaints about LEC. That is kind of funny since they don't know that the basis for the whole thing is a device thought out by the source - Werner Erhard:
Get the course participants to believe that they need to recruit others (to continue have the transformation) so they will sell the course for LEC. LEC doesn't have to employ any sales force. That is done by the participants. (This can be read about in “Outrageous Betrayal”).

But if they would take away that responsibility from the participants shoulders the organization would crumble to dust. So to ask Harry Rosenberg and the others at management level to ease off on the pressure of bringing guests will always fail.

I remember that the “guest conversation” was really strange . They (seminar leaders) always turned into some strange being when they had to start talking about bringing guests. ( I am not talking about the Forum leaders but the lower ones.) I think the reason for that "turning strange" was that they didn’t have as many participants under “mind control coma” – people had started to return to their old self (not the destabilized self as during the Forum or Advanced course) so they started questioning this thing about bringing guest. It was always up to the seminar leader to “create a powerful conversation” about bringing guest. But what they struggled with was of course their own inauthenticity about the whole thing. And the struggle to meet their statistics.

Note that the seminar leaders I am talking about are also participants. They are not paid. They are part of the seminar leader program. As such unpaid workers for LEC doing their part in Werner E’s original plan. It still works and will continue to work as long people take the conversation that “bringing guests is important for my own transformation” into their feeble minds. It is really obnoxious to have to have other people join for you to continue your own “bridge” to becoming a fully brainwashed human being.

LOL... Yeah this Tom guy is most definately lost in space...

What do you guys think of their petition?
[www.ipetitions.com]

I don't think it's very likey that they will succeed but maybe if enough people 'create the possibility' and start 'enrolling' others it could have a positive effect on this pathetic organisation...

The oddest thing about this dynamic organization that is always reinventing themselves on another level of sourcitude and out of body grooviness is that..... this verbal diarrhea sounds [i:0435778a63] exactly [/i:0435778a63] like the verbal diarrhea they were spewing 20 years ago... their "powerful conversations" and their powerful conversations about their powerful conversations are the same mind numbing intellectual soap operas, [i:0435778a63] practically verbatim [/i:0435778a63] as they were wallowing in when Jimmy Carter was President... whats effing Twilight Zone is that they don't, can't, or won't see this... like they are all so deeply in a profound hypnotic trance where the hypnotist has given them a convincing suggestion that they are thinking new thoughts when they are running endless tape loops.... and therein is the core [i:0435778a63]madness[/i:0435778a63] of the project... they are hypnotically installing "tape loop thought" which must have been a highly idiosyncratic, and IMHO fundamentally deranged, element of Jack W. Rosenhard's cognitive structure...