Reading some of the rants they are such Straw-man arguments.
An argument is not a "straw man" argument if it is based on facts. The suicides, MacArthur museum, denial of mental illness, and authoritarian leadership (aggressive discipline) were all proven in previous posts with links provided and are indesputable facts. At least 3 people on here are former members of the cult either in the main organization or in one of its many extensions, and are witnesses to the abuses that take place. Therefore, they are not "straw man" arguments but are based on facts.
It appears that you are mad a at man and tearing down and attacking a man, not so much his teachings or theology.
While the theology and teachings are partly at fault, I think I've made it clear on here my major beef with this group is not necessarily what they believe, its how what they believe is presented using deceptive tactics and mental abuse. If they would come right out with what they believe to potential recruits I would have no problem with them. However, it is not just "a man" that is at fault here, I've also made it clear there are many accomplices behind running this group.
What do believe is wrong about what Johnny Mac preaches or wrights about, in light of the bible?
"Johnny Mac" is a common term of endearment used by his followers, so I know that is why you are defending him. This is also a common debate tactic they use, to ask the other person what they believe is wrong with Lordship Salvation, and then tearing it down using MacArthur's canned responses.
Let me just say, that, in my opinion, there are no beliefs in Lordship Salvation that can possibly be justified using the Bible. In fact, the Bible contadicts almost all of their major doctrines. Why do you think he has had to publish over 90+ books, including a Bible that has their beliefs at the bottom of each page? I could really go all night showing how, but that is not the scope of this forum. This is "Cult Education Forum" and "Destructive Churches" subforum. We are supposed to stick with discussing the cultic tactics of groups, not necessarily their beliefs.
However, to humor you I will give one obvious contradiction with the Bible concerning the "Restoration Process" doctrine. Currently their rule is basically you are to be shunned if you commit the same sin 3 times, and they use verses out of Matthew 18 to prove this belief. However, a closer reading of these verses will show that it is referring to someone who "trespasses against thee" as in verse 15. The person trespasses against you, you are supposed to confront him, then bring 1 or 2 witnesses, since out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word is established. If he still doesn't hear them you are to go to the church. MacArthur always seems to stop here.
If you go on, in verses 19 and 20 it says the reason for this is wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name, He is in the midst of them. This means that if it is God's will, the person will make up with you if he has done something wrong to you, since it is Christ that is the restorer, not a counselor or church member, and it is clearly referring to fellowship between people, not God and people. We see this in the next part where Peter asks shall we forgive 7 times? Jesus says no, 70 times 7. This nullifies the Lordship view of getting 3 chances for forgiveness, since Jesus says it is unlimited. The chapter goes on to illustrate the point further with the Parable of the Servant, who did not have compassion to forgive the way he was forgiven.
Matthew 18 says nothing whatsoever about looking for sin in other's lives, church discipline, dealing with sins believers confess to others, it has nothing to do with any of that. In fact, the overarching theme of Matthew 18 is mercy and compassion to others. It teaches compassion to children, unlimited forgiveness, compassion to your fellowman. It does not teach what MacArthur says it does when he takes one section of the chapter out of context.
Further, Nouthetic Counseling is built on the same faulty premise that all mental illness or problems in your life are caused by unconfessed sin, and you must confess these sins to your counselor and not stumble over them more than 3 times, or you are shunned by the church. Even though the passages are about one believer trespassing against another believer, and deciding the matter with Christ's help "in the midst of them," and the person is to be forgiven 70 x 7 or unlimited, the counseling doctrines are built on the premise of the verses about the first three encounters with the person taken out of context, and rather than "trespasses against thee" it is about sins you commit against God, even in your thoughts or other types of sins that are not "trespasses against believers."
This is also why all Christian churches are not rushing to implement the Restoration Process or get Nouthetic Counseling departments established at their churches. The Lordship view is a minority, and I would be surprised if any church outside of the Lordship movement interpreted these verses MacArthur's way.
I have read your objection to what you called Lordship salvation maybe you could enlighten us me to what is your Soteriology the doctrines of salvation.
I already did in the earlier post where I explained to you about the "Character of Genuine Saving Faith" list in the back of the MacArthur Study Bible. It was an answer I gave to one of your earlier posts and I believe its back on Page 6 or so. I told you completely my Soteriology, my view of salvation, and how I believe a person is saved. I also tell you the only way a person will not burn in hell eternally. It was all in that post. Why do you keep asking me?
This is a common tactic they use because the idea is that if you disagree with MacArthur there must be something in your life or beliefs you are not talking about. They keep asking to get differing responses, then get what your beliefs are and explain what is wrong with them in light of Lordship Salvation, and try to find contradictions between your various responses. I know all of this because I lived it for two years. I have seen every debate tactic they have.
who would you point to as being a better teacher?
Anyone who believes the Bible and is Non-Lordship Salvation.