Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: August 07, 2010 03:17AM
Here we go again! TPCWOC plant church: Skagit Valley Turning Point Church home web site current bulliten for this week shows that all the women at Dave Lusters Church will be going to the Celebrate 2010 Womens conference Oct.6-8 with false word faith positive confession prosperity teachers Wendy Treat, Taff Dollar(money man Creflo Dollars wife) at Christian faith center.
Dave Luster is subjecting the women of his church to false doctrine.
The churches and people in Skagit Valley need to be warned about Skagit Valley TurningPoint Church and the danger they pose.
TPCWOC should be responsible for its church plant.
The cancer spreads!
Dave Luster is subjecting the women of his church to false doctrine.
The churches and people in Skagit Valley need to be warned about Skagit Valley TurningPoint Church and the danger they pose.
TPCWOC should be responsible for its church plant.
The cancer spreads!
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: August 09, 2010 01:31PM
Ten Reasons to Reject
WORD-of-FAITH Teachings
by Tricia Tillin
When 'Positive Confession' first arrived in this country, it transformed some dead churches and struggling Christians. Many who had fought against the odds to survive as Christians found a new life of victory; the idea that believers were doomed to be the victims of circumstance and helpless in the face of satanic attack was challenged. This was good and useful, and served to increase our faith in the truths of scripture.
However, as so often in Church history, a movement that came to popular acclaim through such supposedly good fruit soon revealed its true nature as something more like a cult, with extremes of belief that brought the Name of the Lord into disrepute. Unfortunately, it seems this was inevitable - the roots of the doctrine were firmly planted in the soil of the metaphysical cults. The errors that produced New Thought and Christian Science had also produced Word-of-Faith as a Christianised version. (for more information, see the tract 'They Want Your Mind'.)
Now, the whole content, goal and product of the various Word-of-Faith ministries has to be questioned. Although there seems to be fruit, in the form of healings and new converts, we have to ask how genuine these are and how sound is the foundational teaching such new converts will receive? We also have to question the need for Ministers to live in great luxury, demanding millions of pounds for an ever-increasing number of projects, some of which never materialise.
The ultimate goal of such ministries also needs to be examined in the light of scripture. Are we witnessing a global awakening that will transform all nations and bring wealth and success to all the Church? Or is this triumphalism a delusion which will ensnare thousands of well-meaning believers in the satanic trap of the New Age, and cause them - unthinkingly - to set up a worldwide kingdom for the Antichrist?
READ ON for ten reasons for rejecting Word-of-Faith doctrine.
REASON ONE:
It requires 'revelation knowledge'.
Like the gnostic heresies all through the ages, Word-of-Faith needs special knowledge in order to be effective. Leaders see themselves as having a commission to bring new spiritual revelation to the Body, and they condemn 'sense-knowledge' as inadequate. In this scheme, it is not sin and disobedience that causes us to fail, but ignorance of the Word. Moreover, this revelation knowledge is limited to the few who can receive it; the less intelligent are at a disadvantage. This is elitism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON TWO:
It makes the Almighty God and Creator a weak 'faith-being' who is at the mercy of His own universal laws.
Although Word-of-Faith ministers speak of God in a personal way, they treat Him like an impersonal 'energy source' with 'forces' that can be operated by the use of laws - laws which even God has to obey in order to create and run His universe. God, they say, has left the control of the planet in man's hands and is powerless to intervene without a covenant partner. God's omnipotence and sovereignty is damaged by these teachings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON THREE:
It makes the Divine Son of God into a born-again man who had to die in Hell to pay the price for our treason.
Jesus, according to Word-of-Faith doctrine, discarded His divine powers and walked earth as a mere man filled with The Spirit. He had to use the Word and the laws of faith to do miracles. When He died, His blood did not atone, but He had to take upon Himself the very sin-nature of the Devil, causing His spirit to die, and suffer three days and nights of hellish torment AS A MAN before the Father gave the command for Him to be re-created as a re-born man. Thus, they say, Jesus was just the first of many sons, the Pattern for us all to follow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON FOUR:
It elevates man to equality with Jesus.
A consequence of the 'Jesus-died-spiritually' doctrine is that all born-again Christians stand in the same place of power and authority as Jesus - not by virtue of their unity with Him, but in themselves, as men filled with the Spirit. This would mean that we have already been resurrected from the dead and it only remains for us to gain 'knowledge' of our new condition in order to discard the trappings of the fleshly body and begin living as spiritual gods on earth!
Thus, the Christian walk is one of education in using the same spiritual laws as Jesus in order to dominate the circumstances and do miracles. In Word-of-Faith teaching, believers do not depend on God's own power, nor submit to His will, but feel they have the right to develop their own powers, and to discover the laws governing creation and dominion on the earth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON FIVE:
It makes man a god.
To understand the special position that Word-of-Faith gives to man, we need to know their interpretation of the Creation. In their teaching, man HAS NO NATURE OF HIS OWN but takes his nature from his 'lord'. When God was his Lord, then man had a divine nature - for he was created as god of the earth, they say - but after man's fall, he took the sin-nature of the Devil and became like Satan. (All this, of course, is contrary to scripture). So, Word-of Faith believers would reason that a born-again man has regained his divine nature. Thus, he is entitled to use the attributes of his divinity, such as creative powers and domination of the environment etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON SIX:
It makes the redemption into a restoration of dominion for mankind.
Word-of-Faith teachers stress the loss of dominion over the earth, not sin, as the root problem. So, salvation becomes a matter of re-discovering one's place of godhood and learning to rule as kings on earth. The role Jesus had to play in redemption was that of a substitute Adam, coming to earth to fulfill all that Adam failed to do, demonstrating the possibilities of dominion, and then taking Adam's place in Hell to let mankind 'off the hook'. The worship given to Jesus by Word-of-Faith believers is more from a sense of gratitude than a recognition of His divinity. It also misses the whole point of redemption: that Jesus HIMSELF is the Life and Salvation of mankind and that we are only saved in union with Him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON SEVEN:
Its goal is the transformation of the earth by spiritual dominion.
Because Word-of-Faith believers see themselves as having returned to their god-like dominion of the earth, they foresee the time coming when - by sheer force of numbers, probably - all mankind has to bow the knee to God. They teach that all the wealth of the world will flow to the Church, and that the laws, government and entire social structure of the world system will have to change. Despite scriptural warnings of apostasy and increasing wickedness in the end-times, they foresee a great victory for the Church in the future, as the Spirit sweeps millions into the 'kingdom' on earth. Whether or not they claim to believe in the end-times plan of Revelation, the Rapture, the Millennium or any of these things, they still seem to be able to fit a scheme of global Church unity and triumph into the plan of the ages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON EIGHT:
It replaces prayer with confession, and God's will with the manipulation of 'forces'.
Word-of Faith teaches Christians to draw upon powerful 'forces' that reside in the human spirit - such as the force of faith - to bring certain laws into operation. They emphasise the word (not the Son of God, but the scriptures) as the power used to operate all these spiritual laws. So, learning and confessing the Word continually is the method used to obtain anything we want. This self-rule leads to pride and greed. But a Christian must deny himself and submit to the entire will of God, as revealed moment-by-moment by the Holy Spirit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON NINE:
It denies the reality of sin and sickness.
Word-of-Faith ministers teach that the only true reality is spiritual, and the earthly senses are deceptive. Thus, believers are led to deny that they are ill, poor or in any way below par. They are taught to overcome adversity by confessing a suitable 'positive' scripture, instead of seeking God's guidance. Also, the reality of sin, and the need for forgiveness is glossed over by teaching that a simple confession of the Lordship of Jesus will effect a change of lifestyle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON TEN:
It focuses on self and the world instead of God and Heaven.
The emphasis in Word-of-Faith doctrine is all on success, prosperity, advancement, gain, health and strength. There is little compassion for those who fail to come up to these exacting standards. Any adversity is said to be a 'lack of faith' to confess the appropriate Word. This is a great misunderstanding of the wisdom of God, and His plan to bring his children to glory, for if we refuse to share in the trials, setbacks and persecutions of Jesus, we are not ready to share His glorification. [Rom 8:17]
Some of the Word-of-Faith teachers and ministries have been the worst offenders in bringing the Name and the cause of Jesus Christ into disrepute. Ministries that emphasise prosperity have ended up in greed, manipulating believers into giving money they can little afford. Over-emphasised teaching about God's healing has led to extravagant claims for miracles that have been exposed as hyperbole and sham. Doctrines about man's godhood and superhuman abilities have led to arrogance, self-will and the use of psychic powers to perform miracles instead of a simple dependency on the Holy Spirit. Also, teachings about faith have become rituals and formulas for producing instant result; and many who could not or would not go down this road were derided and rejected as "having no faith".
Legions of hurt people have testified to their bad experiences, both personally and corporately, with Word-of-Faith extremes and excesses. Indeed, the very root of this teaching is bad, coming as it does from Christian Science and the metaphysical schools of thought.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONCLUSION:
What we can learn from the Word-of-Faith doctrines is really no more than straight-forward biblical teaching in the first place - faith in God and in His Word, belief in divine intervention in our affairs, a positive outlook based on the promises of God, and a knowledge of the defeat of satanic powers in Jesus - all this and more is good and sound, but the Word-of-Faith movement today has gone far beyond these boundaries and created a monster that is devouring both its leaders and followers alike.
It is not necessary to buy into a Word-of-Faith system in order to benefit from the plain teaching of scripture. Any who are followers of Word-of-Faith ministers should think very carefully about their position as followers of men and of a dubious man-inspired system of formulas, and also should be wary of the manipulation to give gifts and tithes to these ministries. It would be better to support your own church, or more humble and doctrinally sound Christian works, and to seek for scriptural inspiration from the Holy Spirit who is our only Guide and Teacher.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2010 01:48PM by buddy.
WORD-of-FAITH Teachings
by Tricia Tillin
When 'Positive Confession' first arrived in this country, it transformed some dead churches and struggling Christians. Many who had fought against the odds to survive as Christians found a new life of victory; the idea that believers were doomed to be the victims of circumstance and helpless in the face of satanic attack was challenged. This was good and useful, and served to increase our faith in the truths of scripture.
However, as so often in Church history, a movement that came to popular acclaim through such supposedly good fruit soon revealed its true nature as something more like a cult, with extremes of belief that brought the Name of the Lord into disrepute. Unfortunately, it seems this was inevitable - the roots of the doctrine were firmly planted in the soil of the metaphysical cults. The errors that produced New Thought and Christian Science had also produced Word-of-Faith as a Christianised version. (for more information, see the tract 'They Want Your Mind'.)
Now, the whole content, goal and product of the various Word-of-Faith ministries has to be questioned. Although there seems to be fruit, in the form of healings and new converts, we have to ask how genuine these are and how sound is the foundational teaching such new converts will receive? We also have to question the need for Ministers to live in great luxury, demanding millions of pounds for an ever-increasing number of projects, some of which never materialise.
The ultimate goal of such ministries also needs to be examined in the light of scripture. Are we witnessing a global awakening that will transform all nations and bring wealth and success to all the Church? Or is this triumphalism a delusion which will ensnare thousands of well-meaning believers in the satanic trap of the New Age, and cause them - unthinkingly - to set up a worldwide kingdom for the Antichrist?
READ ON for ten reasons for rejecting Word-of-Faith doctrine.
REASON ONE:
It requires 'revelation knowledge'.
Like the gnostic heresies all through the ages, Word-of-Faith needs special knowledge in order to be effective. Leaders see themselves as having a commission to bring new spiritual revelation to the Body, and they condemn 'sense-knowledge' as inadequate. In this scheme, it is not sin and disobedience that causes us to fail, but ignorance of the Word. Moreover, this revelation knowledge is limited to the few who can receive it; the less intelligent are at a disadvantage. This is elitism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON TWO:
It makes the Almighty God and Creator a weak 'faith-being' who is at the mercy of His own universal laws.
Although Word-of-Faith ministers speak of God in a personal way, they treat Him like an impersonal 'energy source' with 'forces' that can be operated by the use of laws - laws which even God has to obey in order to create and run His universe. God, they say, has left the control of the planet in man's hands and is powerless to intervene without a covenant partner. God's omnipotence and sovereignty is damaged by these teachings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON THREE:
It makes the Divine Son of God into a born-again man who had to die in Hell to pay the price for our treason.
Jesus, according to Word-of-Faith doctrine, discarded His divine powers and walked earth as a mere man filled with The Spirit. He had to use the Word and the laws of faith to do miracles. When He died, His blood did not atone, but He had to take upon Himself the very sin-nature of the Devil, causing His spirit to die, and suffer three days and nights of hellish torment AS A MAN before the Father gave the command for Him to be re-created as a re-born man. Thus, they say, Jesus was just the first of many sons, the Pattern for us all to follow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON FOUR:
It elevates man to equality with Jesus.
A consequence of the 'Jesus-died-spiritually' doctrine is that all born-again Christians stand in the same place of power and authority as Jesus - not by virtue of their unity with Him, but in themselves, as men filled with the Spirit. This would mean that we have already been resurrected from the dead and it only remains for us to gain 'knowledge' of our new condition in order to discard the trappings of the fleshly body and begin living as spiritual gods on earth!
Thus, the Christian walk is one of education in using the same spiritual laws as Jesus in order to dominate the circumstances and do miracles. In Word-of-Faith teaching, believers do not depend on God's own power, nor submit to His will, but feel they have the right to develop their own powers, and to discover the laws governing creation and dominion on the earth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON FIVE:
It makes man a god.
To understand the special position that Word-of-Faith gives to man, we need to know their interpretation of the Creation. In their teaching, man HAS NO NATURE OF HIS OWN but takes his nature from his 'lord'. When God was his Lord, then man had a divine nature - for he was created as god of the earth, they say - but after man's fall, he took the sin-nature of the Devil and became like Satan. (All this, of course, is contrary to scripture). So, Word-of Faith believers would reason that a born-again man has regained his divine nature. Thus, he is entitled to use the attributes of his divinity, such as creative powers and domination of the environment etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON SIX:
It makes the redemption into a restoration of dominion for mankind.
Word-of-Faith teachers stress the loss of dominion over the earth, not sin, as the root problem. So, salvation becomes a matter of re-discovering one's place of godhood and learning to rule as kings on earth. The role Jesus had to play in redemption was that of a substitute Adam, coming to earth to fulfill all that Adam failed to do, demonstrating the possibilities of dominion, and then taking Adam's place in Hell to let mankind 'off the hook'. The worship given to Jesus by Word-of-Faith believers is more from a sense of gratitude than a recognition of His divinity. It also misses the whole point of redemption: that Jesus HIMSELF is the Life and Salvation of mankind and that we are only saved in union with Him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON SEVEN:
Its goal is the transformation of the earth by spiritual dominion.
Because Word-of-Faith believers see themselves as having returned to their god-like dominion of the earth, they foresee the time coming when - by sheer force of numbers, probably - all mankind has to bow the knee to God. They teach that all the wealth of the world will flow to the Church, and that the laws, government and entire social structure of the world system will have to change. Despite scriptural warnings of apostasy and increasing wickedness in the end-times, they foresee a great victory for the Church in the future, as the Spirit sweeps millions into the 'kingdom' on earth. Whether or not they claim to believe in the end-times plan of Revelation, the Rapture, the Millennium or any of these things, they still seem to be able to fit a scheme of global Church unity and triumph into the plan of the ages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON EIGHT:
It replaces prayer with confession, and God's will with the manipulation of 'forces'.
Word-of Faith teaches Christians to draw upon powerful 'forces' that reside in the human spirit - such as the force of faith - to bring certain laws into operation. They emphasise the word (not the Son of God, but the scriptures) as the power used to operate all these spiritual laws. So, learning and confessing the Word continually is the method used to obtain anything we want. This self-rule leads to pride and greed. But a Christian must deny himself and submit to the entire will of God, as revealed moment-by-moment by the Holy Spirit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON NINE:
It denies the reality of sin and sickness.
Word-of-Faith ministers teach that the only true reality is spiritual, and the earthly senses are deceptive. Thus, believers are led to deny that they are ill, poor or in any way below par. They are taught to overcome adversity by confessing a suitable 'positive' scripture, instead of seeking God's guidance. Also, the reality of sin, and the need for forgiveness is glossed over by teaching that a simple confession of the Lordship of Jesus will effect a change of lifestyle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REASON TEN:
It focuses on self and the world instead of God and Heaven.
The emphasis in Word-of-Faith doctrine is all on success, prosperity, advancement, gain, health and strength. There is little compassion for those who fail to come up to these exacting standards. Any adversity is said to be a 'lack of faith' to confess the appropriate Word. This is a great misunderstanding of the wisdom of God, and His plan to bring his children to glory, for if we refuse to share in the trials, setbacks and persecutions of Jesus, we are not ready to share His glorification. [Rom 8:17]
Some of the Word-of-Faith teachers and ministries have been the worst offenders in bringing the Name and the cause of Jesus Christ into disrepute. Ministries that emphasise prosperity have ended up in greed, manipulating believers into giving money they can little afford. Over-emphasised teaching about God's healing has led to extravagant claims for miracles that have been exposed as hyperbole and sham. Doctrines about man's godhood and superhuman abilities have led to arrogance, self-will and the use of psychic powers to perform miracles instead of a simple dependency on the Holy Spirit. Also, teachings about faith have become rituals and formulas for producing instant result; and many who could not or would not go down this road were derided and rejected as "having no faith".
Legions of hurt people have testified to their bad experiences, both personally and corporately, with Word-of-Faith extremes and excesses. Indeed, the very root of this teaching is bad, coming as it does from Christian Science and the metaphysical schools of thought.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONCLUSION:
What we can learn from the Word-of-Faith doctrines is really no more than straight-forward biblical teaching in the first place - faith in God and in His Word, belief in divine intervention in our affairs, a positive outlook based on the promises of God, and a knowledge of the defeat of satanic powers in Jesus - all this and more is good and sound, but the Word-of-Faith movement today has gone far beyond these boundaries and created a monster that is devouring both its leaders and followers alike.
It is not necessary to buy into a Word-of-Faith system in order to benefit from the plain teaching of scripture. Any who are followers of Word-of-Faith ministers should think very carefully about their position as followers of men and of a dubious man-inspired system of formulas, and also should be wary of the manipulation to give gifts and tithes to these ministries. It would be better to support your own church, or more humble and doctrinally sound Christian works, and to seek for scriptural inspiration from the Holy Spirit who is our only Guide and Teacher.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2010 01:48PM by buddy.
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: August 10, 2010 11:35PM
Quote
buddy
Here we go again! TPCWOC plant church: Skagit Valley Turning Point Church home web site current bulliten for this week shows that all the women at Dave Lusters Church will be going to the Celebrate 2010 Womens conference Oct.6-8 with false word faith positive confession prosperity teachers Wendy Treat, Taffi Dollar(money man Creflo Dollars wife) at Christian faith center.
Dave Luster is subjecting the women of his church to false doctrine.
The churches and people in Skagit Valley need to be warned about Skagit Valley TurningPoint Church and the danger they pose.
TPCWOC should be responsible for its church plant.
The cancer spreads!
Wikipedia: Dollar is known for his controversial teachings of Prosperity theology.[9] He has been criticized for his lavish lifestyle as he owns two Rolls-Royces, a private jet, a million dollar home in Atlanta, and a 2.5 million dollar home in Manhattan.[9] Dollar has refused to disclose his salary and Creflo Dollar Ministries received a grade of "F" for financial transparency by the organization MinistryWatch.[14][9]
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: August 29, 2010 01:02PM
Dave Luster has most of all his sermons online now and I listen to freedom series week 6. Dave says that Joseph Prince book "Destined to Reign" has led him to the bible more then any other book. Daves whole freedom series was base on this book. Dave says that the second largest church in the northwest also is teaching from this book. But Dave says he won't tell us what church. I believe Dave said some thing like he steals other peoples stuff then has the Holy Spirits help in giving the message. Some thing like that. I am still trying to understand Dave. Any way Dave said that he is not that original. Dave is getting his doctrines from books written by false teachers just like his spiritual father false Apostle Mike Villamor.
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: August 29, 2010 01:06PM
Joseph Prince - Antinomian Megastar and Teacher of Lawless Grace
Entering the local Koorong Christian bookstore yesterday, I immediately noticed a book with an attractive looking young Asian man on the cover. The picture was of Joseph Prince, the title of the book, "Destined to Reign", and the subtitle went as follows: "The secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living."
Wow. Effortless Success! Amazing! And this young man can teach me the secret to this! Folks, there's one born every minute. Even the front cover of this book should tell you that something is wrong.
The Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 4 the following, and I used it for the biblical basis of why I would take the time to write an article like this:
"I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."
(2 Timothy 4:1-5)
The apostle Paul tells us here to convince, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering and teaching. So by the grace of God we will do that.
Now Joseph Prince uses the writings of the apostle Paul, in particular verses like Romans 5:17 and other verses about God's mercy and grace to establish his position. If Joseph Prince and his followers wish to quote the apostle Paul as a source of true inspiration, they should be willing to listen to everything he said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and not just construct something pleasing to the ear out of selected portions of the Scripture. If Prince is a lover of truth, he has to deal with all the New Testament Scriptures and not just some favorite ones.
The warning here is a prophecy given by God. It says that the time will come when God's people will begin to heap for themselves teachers who will speak to them according to their desires, according to what their itching ears want to hear. Now I don't know about you, but the idea of "effortless success" kind of appeals to me. And before I learned to love righteousness and hate wickedness, the idea of unconditional forgiveness and acceptance from God while I serve my own desires was also kind of appealing. It was something I could believe in, because I wanted to, and so did many of the people I knew. If you read my testimony, you will know that I thought I was a Christian because I believed certain doctrines about God's forgiveness being available to me through the cross of Christ - and I thought I could live for myself while still receiving these benefits. The idea of needing to REPENT of sin seemed way to narrow for us. We would have called it "legalistic".
If you and I can have "effortless success", then why did Jesus Christ make the following statement?
Luke 13:24 Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (NIV). In the New King James: "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."
Jesus, if I can have "effortless success", Ps Joseph Prince tells me in a top selling book in a respected Christian bookstore and around the world, why do you tell me to "make every effort" to enter salvation, or even worse, to "strive".
And Jesus, if you were so keen to do away with the moral requirements of the law, why did you seem to make it even tougher when you said:
Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Jesus, is that teaching really for us today, or were you just being a bit tough on the Jewish people of the time because they were under the law anyway, and you wanted to rub it in until your servant Paul could come and change the message for you?
There are hundreds of passages which don't fit in nicely with the idea of effortless success or salvation without repentance, but we live in a biblically illiterate age, where church people are too busy pursuing wealth and material success to have time to study the Bible. So for this reason, people flock to charismatic pastors like Joseph Prince whose theological education is limited to get their feel good message for the week to keep them motivated and upbeat about the week ahead. I understand that, but I see it as idolatrous nonetheless. We MUST study God's Word for ourselves at some stage in our lives, and heavily, if we are going to avoid being pulled into the Last Day's Deception which the Bible promises us and which in fact seems to be upon us now also in the charismatic, full gospel church scene.
I first heard about Joseph Prince from my pastor at the time on the Gold Coast who heard him speak at a Hillsong Conference. This pastor told me he considered Joseph Prince to be a false teacher, that he teaches salvation without the need for repentance or godly living, and that to preach the Ten Commandments at all makes you a "preacher of death". Hearing this report made me lose more respect for Brian Houston, the leader of the Hillsong Megachurch. For you see, Brian Houston must be very appreciative of the teachings of Joseph Prince. This is evidenced firstly by the repeated invitations to minister at the huge Hillsong Conferences, and secondly by the glowing endorsement Houston wrote on the back of the book I just referred to. But rather than focus at this stage on names, I would like to look at the actual ideas that Joseph Prince is promoting, and compare them with Scripture. In the end it will be for my readers to decide which doctrine they will believe, and which doctrine conforms most to the spirit and intent of the Scriptures as they are written.
I hope to write more on this subject later and soon, because the situation can't be properly addressed in a short blog post like this one. But it should be addressed as it relates to the very core of what our faith is about, and the issue of what God requires for those who wish to be reconciled to Him and saved. And because there is a real dearth of courageous pastors in the Pentecostal movement who are willing to rebuke false teachers, I, even I, will have a go. If the Lord should reveal further truth to myself or others in this process, may His Name be praised. We need a love of the truth to even make it into Christ's Eternal Kingdom these days. The love of the truth is going to cost us something. Its NOT going to be effortless. Yes, Christ's grace DOES empower us in the fight, and without Christ's grace we would be utterly inadequate. It is to the true grace of God I look in order to be saved in these last days.
Let us remember the words of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
God's grace be with you.
Michael
Entering the local Koorong Christian bookstore yesterday, I immediately noticed a book with an attractive looking young Asian man on the cover. The picture was of Joseph Prince, the title of the book, "Destined to Reign", and the subtitle went as follows: "The secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living."
Wow. Effortless Success! Amazing! And this young man can teach me the secret to this! Folks, there's one born every minute. Even the front cover of this book should tell you that something is wrong.
The Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 4 the following, and I used it for the biblical basis of why I would take the time to write an article like this:
"I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."
(2 Timothy 4:1-5)
The apostle Paul tells us here to convince, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering and teaching. So by the grace of God we will do that.
Now Joseph Prince uses the writings of the apostle Paul, in particular verses like Romans 5:17 and other verses about God's mercy and grace to establish his position. If Joseph Prince and his followers wish to quote the apostle Paul as a source of true inspiration, they should be willing to listen to everything he said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and not just construct something pleasing to the ear out of selected portions of the Scripture. If Prince is a lover of truth, he has to deal with all the New Testament Scriptures and not just some favorite ones.
The warning here is a prophecy given by God. It says that the time will come when God's people will begin to heap for themselves teachers who will speak to them according to their desires, according to what their itching ears want to hear. Now I don't know about you, but the idea of "effortless success" kind of appeals to me. And before I learned to love righteousness and hate wickedness, the idea of unconditional forgiveness and acceptance from God while I serve my own desires was also kind of appealing. It was something I could believe in, because I wanted to, and so did many of the people I knew. If you read my testimony, you will know that I thought I was a Christian because I believed certain doctrines about God's forgiveness being available to me through the cross of Christ - and I thought I could live for myself while still receiving these benefits. The idea of needing to REPENT of sin seemed way to narrow for us. We would have called it "legalistic".
If you and I can have "effortless success", then why did Jesus Christ make the following statement?
Luke 13:24 Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (NIV). In the New King James: "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."
Jesus, if I can have "effortless success", Ps Joseph Prince tells me in a top selling book in a respected Christian bookstore and around the world, why do you tell me to "make every effort" to enter salvation, or even worse, to "strive".
And Jesus, if you were so keen to do away with the moral requirements of the law, why did you seem to make it even tougher when you said:
Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Jesus, is that teaching really for us today, or were you just being a bit tough on the Jewish people of the time because they were under the law anyway, and you wanted to rub it in until your servant Paul could come and change the message for you?
There are hundreds of passages which don't fit in nicely with the idea of effortless success or salvation without repentance, but we live in a biblically illiterate age, where church people are too busy pursuing wealth and material success to have time to study the Bible. So for this reason, people flock to charismatic pastors like Joseph Prince whose theological education is limited to get their feel good message for the week to keep them motivated and upbeat about the week ahead. I understand that, but I see it as idolatrous nonetheless. We MUST study God's Word for ourselves at some stage in our lives, and heavily, if we are going to avoid being pulled into the Last Day's Deception which the Bible promises us and which in fact seems to be upon us now also in the charismatic, full gospel church scene.
I first heard about Joseph Prince from my pastor at the time on the Gold Coast who heard him speak at a Hillsong Conference. This pastor told me he considered Joseph Prince to be a false teacher, that he teaches salvation without the need for repentance or godly living, and that to preach the Ten Commandments at all makes you a "preacher of death". Hearing this report made me lose more respect for Brian Houston, the leader of the Hillsong Megachurch. For you see, Brian Houston must be very appreciative of the teachings of Joseph Prince. This is evidenced firstly by the repeated invitations to minister at the huge Hillsong Conferences, and secondly by the glowing endorsement Houston wrote on the back of the book I just referred to. But rather than focus at this stage on names, I would like to look at the actual ideas that Joseph Prince is promoting, and compare them with Scripture. In the end it will be for my readers to decide which doctrine they will believe, and which doctrine conforms most to the spirit and intent of the Scriptures as they are written.
I hope to write more on this subject later and soon, because the situation can't be properly addressed in a short blog post like this one. But it should be addressed as it relates to the very core of what our faith is about, and the issue of what God requires for those who wish to be reconciled to Him and saved. And because there is a real dearth of courageous pastors in the Pentecostal movement who are willing to rebuke false teachers, I, even I, will have a go. If the Lord should reveal further truth to myself or others in this process, may His Name be praised. We need a love of the truth to even make it into Christ's Eternal Kingdom these days. The love of the truth is going to cost us something. Its NOT going to be effortless. Yes, Christ's grace DOES empower us in the fight, and without Christ's grace we would be utterly inadequate. It is to the true grace of God I look in order to be saved in these last days.
Let us remember the words of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
God's grace be with you.
Michael
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: August 31, 2010 02:37AM
Dave Lusters semon Live Free WK 9: 40 min mark Dave shares the Turning Point Church evangelism strategy, Dave says he wants the people who attend his church to smile and laugh more. Dave says that they scowl too much and Dave wants his church to be a happy church.
Why are your people so sad? Now they can put on their fake plastic smiles and laugh their heads off. Maybe you can start a Holy laughter movement. Are you a stand up comedian. Just smile and laugh your way into heaven. Forget about all the false doctrine that you, Dave seem to enjoy. No big deal. Your a happy church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 02:38AM by buddy.
Why are your people so sad? Now they can put on their fake plastic smiles and laugh their heads off. Maybe you can start a Holy laughter movement. Are you a stand up comedian. Just smile and laugh your way into heaven. Forget about all the false doctrine that you, Dave seem to enjoy. No big deal. Your a happy church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 02:38AM by buddy.
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: September 08, 2010 01:47AM
(Dave Luster will do anything to bring more victims into the cult!)
A day of celebration as we officially open the new worship center! This day will feature great additions to our normal Sunday services including plenty of activities for the whole family. Mark it on your calendars today.
Special Prize giveaways include a $200 voucher to Triumph Tattoos, $50 Red Robin Cert, $50 to Blue Fox Drive-In, Golfing green fees for 2, Beauty Salon Certificate, Children's Package, 4 tickets to Skagit Speedway and more!
Enter in either service. Drawing will be held at 1pm but you must enter during one of the services. BBQ activities following the 11am service will also feature the giant slide and obstacle course for all ages.
A day of celebration as we officially open the new worship center! This day will feature great additions to our normal Sunday services including plenty of activities for the whole family. Mark it on your calendars today.
Special Prize giveaways include a $200 voucher to Triumph Tattoos, $50 Red Robin Cert, $50 to Blue Fox Drive-In, Golfing green fees for 2, Beauty Salon Certificate, Children's Package, 4 tickets to Skagit Speedway and more!
Enter in either service. Drawing will be held at 1pm but you must enter during one of the services. BBQ activities following the 11am service will also feature the giant slide and obstacle course for all ages.
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: September 09, 2010 02:33AM
Week 5 July 18th Live free series Dave Luster puts the Gag order in place at the 19:15min to the 22min mark then picks it up again at the 34:45 mark, Dave repents for bad mouthing Joel Osteen , then at the end of the sermon he sounds just like him, Dave reminds me of his spiritual father false Apostle Mike Villamor,the more he talks the more goofy he gets, Dave says that there will be a special place in heaven for those people who rip apart the body of Christ. Dave says that God will say, "why did you post that? Why did you write that garbage. Why were you attacking that pastor or that ministry?"
Freedom week 3 series he bashes all churches for not knowing or understanding Grace, like he is the expert
Live Free Gal 1 series Dave bashes Mars hill church for what they believe in
Freedom week 3 series he bashes all churches for not knowing or understanding Grace, like he is the expert
Live Free Gal 1 series Dave bashes Mars hill church for what they believe in
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: September 22, 2010 12:51AM
Turning Point Skagit Valley Bulliten for Sept 19th shows that the women of Dave Lusters church will be going to Caset Treats Christian Faith center fo the womens conference Oct 6-8th. Casey Treat is clearly a Word-Faith movement false Teacher. Some of the Word- Faith Movement doctrines have came from Christian science. Alot of the Word-Faith movement rock stars like to speak at Casey Treats Christian Faith Center.
Word-Faith Movement: A movement based in large part on the teachings of E. W. Kenyon (1867-1948) that became a distinct movement under the teaching and leadership of Kenneth Hagin, a Pentecostal faith-healing evangelist. God himself is said to have created the world and to do all that he does by speaking words of faith. Man’s creation in God’s image is commonly understood to mean that human beings are “little gods” capable of speaking creative words of faith. The fall of Adam into sin is interpreted as having transformed Adam (and all unredeemed people) into Satan’s nature and as having transferred Adam’s godhood or dominion on earth to Satan. Jesus is believed to have become man in order to restore human beings to godhood as renewed “incarnations” of God. He is said to have done this by dying spiritually as well as physically on the cross, suffering in hell, and then while in hell becoming the first person to be “born again,” before finally being raised from the dead. Those who believe in Jesus are supposedly empowered to speak words of faith again, especially in order to obtain bodily health and financial prosperity (both of which are supposedly guaranteed as present possessions in the Atonement). . In contrast, traditional Christian theology teaches that God and God alone can bring about whatever he chooses; that man was created to reflect God’s character and to implement his will, not to be little gods; that man is fallen but not Satanic in nature; that God is still in control of this world; that Jesus Christ alone is God incarnate; that Jesus died physically, not spiritually, to redeem us; that Jesus therefore was not born again; and that health and prosperity are promised to believers in the future resurrection. In the meantime God heals and prospers people providentially and miraculously when and as he sees fit. Most of the followers of the Word-Faith teachers are Pentecostals and other evangelical Christians.
Word-Faith Movement: A movement based in large part on the teachings of E. W. Kenyon (1867-1948) that became a distinct movement under the teaching and leadership of Kenneth Hagin, a Pentecostal faith-healing evangelist. God himself is said to have created the world and to do all that he does by speaking words of faith. Man’s creation in God’s image is commonly understood to mean that human beings are “little gods” capable of speaking creative words of faith. The fall of Adam into sin is interpreted as having transformed Adam (and all unredeemed people) into Satan’s nature and as having transferred Adam’s godhood or dominion on earth to Satan. Jesus is believed to have become man in order to restore human beings to godhood as renewed “incarnations” of God. He is said to have done this by dying spiritually as well as physically on the cross, suffering in hell, and then while in hell becoming the first person to be “born again,” before finally being raised from the dead. Those who believe in Jesus are supposedly empowered to speak words of faith again, especially in order to obtain bodily health and financial prosperity (both of which are supposedly guaranteed as present possessions in the Atonement). . In contrast, traditional Christian theology teaches that God and God alone can bring about whatever he chooses; that man was created to reflect God’s character and to implement his will, not to be little gods; that man is fallen but not Satanic in nature; that God is still in control of this world; that Jesus Christ alone is God incarnate; that Jesus died physically, not spiritually, to redeem us; that Jesus therefore was not born again; and that health and prosperity are promised to believers in the future resurrection. In the meantime God heals and prospers people providentially and miraculously when and as he sees fit. Most of the followers of the Word-Faith teachers are Pentecostals and other evangelical Christians.
Re: Turning Point Church Skagit Valley-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: September 22, 2010 03:16AM
Word Faith: What's wrong with the Word Faith Movement?
CP1100
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- Introduction
Many popular evangelists are involved with “Positive Confession” or the “Word-Faith” movement. What’s wrong with this movement?
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- Televangelists
Some of America’s best known televangelists subscribe either partly or wholly to what’s commonly referred to as “positive confession,” the “Word-Faith” teaching, or the “prosperity” doctrine. Its chief representatives today seem to be Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, Charles Capps, and Casey Treat, though there are certainly many other evangelists, teachers, and writers who promote this teaching.
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- The Teachings at a Glance
The “word-faith” teaching may be summarized as follows: God created man in “God’s class,” as “little gods,” with the potential to exercise what they refer to as the “God-kind of faith” in calling things into existence and living in prosperity and success as sovereign beings. Of course, we forfeited this opportunity by rebelling against God in the Garden and taking upon ourselves Satan’s nature. To correct this situation, Jesus Christ became a man, died spiritually (thus taking upon Himself Satan’s nature), went to hell, was “born again,” rose from the dead with God’s nature again, and then sent the Holy Spirit so that the incarnation could be duplicated in believers, thus fulfilling their calling to be what they call “little gods.” Since we’re called to experience this kind of life now, we should be successful in virtually every area of our lives. To be in debt, then, or be sick, or (as is even taught by the faith teachers) to be left by one’s spouse, simply means that you don’t have enough faith — or you have some secret sin in your life, because if you didn’t, you would be able to handle all of these problems.
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- The Blueprint
Now, while certain aspects of the this doctrine may vary from teacher to teacher — ranging from moderately aberrant to the outright heretical — the general outline remains the same. In every instance, the “Word-Faith” teaching is guilty of presenting an inflated view of man and a deflated view of God, thereby compromising God’s message as revealed in the Bible. This fast-growing movement has disastrous implications and, in fact, reduces Jesus Christ to a means to an end — when in fact he is the end. If the New Age Movement is the greatest threat to the church from without, “positive confession” may well be it’s greatest threat from within.
CP1100
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- Introduction
Many popular evangelists are involved with “Positive Confession” or the “Word-Faith” movement. What’s wrong with this movement?
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- Televangelists
Some of America’s best known televangelists subscribe either partly or wholly to what’s commonly referred to as “positive confession,” the “Word-Faith” teaching, or the “prosperity” doctrine. Its chief representatives today seem to be Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, Charles Capps, and Casey Treat, though there are certainly many other evangelists, teachers, and writers who promote this teaching.
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- The Teachings at a Glance
The “word-faith” teaching may be summarized as follows: God created man in “God’s class,” as “little gods,” with the potential to exercise what they refer to as the “God-kind of faith” in calling things into existence and living in prosperity and success as sovereign beings. Of course, we forfeited this opportunity by rebelling against God in the Garden and taking upon ourselves Satan’s nature. To correct this situation, Jesus Christ became a man, died spiritually (thus taking upon Himself Satan’s nature), went to hell, was “born again,” rose from the dead with God’s nature again, and then sent the Holy Spirit so that the incarnation could be duplicated in believers, thus fulfilling their calling to be what they call “little gods.” Since we’re called to experience this kind of life now, we should be successful in virtually every area of our lives. To be in debt, then, or be sick, or (as is even taught by the faith teachers) to be left by one’s spouse, simply means that you don’t have enough faith — or you have some secret sin in your life, because if you didn’t, you would be able to handle all of these problems.
THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT- The Blueprint
Now, while certain aspects of the this doctrine may vary from teacher to teacher — ranging from moderately aberrant to the outright heretical — the general outline remains the same. In every instance, the “Word-Faith” teaching is guilty of presenting an inflated view of man and a deflated view of God, thereby compromising God’s message as revealed in the Bible. This fast-growing movement has disastrous implications and, in fact, reduces Jesus Christ to a means to an end — when in fact he is the end. If the New Age Movement is the greatest threat to the church from without, “positive confession” may well be it’s greatest threat from within.
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