Delight,

My heart breaks all over again, reading your posts. We have all been there. We all had red flags and warnings that we ignored...then one day, stood up and said, "wait, this is wrong." I can only speak for myself and my own family, but the decision to leave TP was one of the most difficult things we've done. It's been exactly two years now, since our last Sunday at TP (I just realized that...EXACTLY two years, today). It was hard, at first, but we made it a priority to find a new church home. We wanted our kids to know that, despite how messed up things were at TP, and how messed up we were b/c of TP, that there is life after TP, and it's good. Despite THE church's flaws, we still believe that it's an important piece of our faith, and maintaining relationships with Christ.

We continue to pray for TP, and those whe are still in bondage. And we contnue to pray for those who choose to leave, and, like we did two years ago, are starting their lives all over again. TP wasn't just a church, it was a way of life...and it takes time to come out on the other side, and adjust, and trust, and just live a "normal" life.

Anyway, I'm not sure that I really have a point, except to say that I'm sorry for what you've been through,and are going through. I pray for healing for you, and your family.

Hum... how to begin? To be dreadfully honest I am stuck. I have grown up in the church all my life and visited every church possible in washington state. I don't know if my problem is just church or the people in the church, but I can't bring myself to ever trying to join a church. Everything I have seen is manipulative, self seeking, money hungery, lieing,selfserving churches, or I've also been on the other side of it to the point of self denial, sacrifice everything, sell things off, If your not thinking of Christ 24/7, then what you are doing is evil, unholy.
Where is the balance in church today? There is none. Now I understand why people give up all together. They either sell out, or the stay in the abuse of Christian counsel and leadership, or they never go to church again. I guess we are living in the end of end times. I am sorry to have bothered any of you. Its all in the name mislead soul and I am misguided, confussed and totally lost, I guess its not just church that has made me this way but also the associations outside of church that have confussed me further more. I would be better off to stay at home and read my own Bible. Is this wrong? Or would I be, um excuse the language but I don't know how to put it any other way, "damned" for not fellowshiping? Please do not think that TPC, is to balme for my confussion or state of being. I have gotten some good things out of TPC. I know this forum is dedicated to just one single church, but can anyone honestly say that the others are any better? How much do you really know of a church you attend, or are apart of unless you are behind the scenes or know of what is really going on? I know first hand how sly leadership can be in covering tracks and controlling without even thier own elite not even having a clue.

Brokenhearted:

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. Yes, I'm pretty crushed over this whole thing. I'm losing some people that I thought were friends. But, I believe that they are either in denial like I use to be, or just don't get it. It just takes time to heal after all of this. It was a good church for me in the beginning some years back. Now I feel it just lies in ruins until leadership comes forward and repents like God wants them too before the Lord and to the congregation. There needs to be no more secrects.

God Bless

Quote
misleadsoul
Hum... how to begin? To be dreadfully honest I am stuck. I have grown up in the church all my life and visited every church possible in washington state. I don't know if my problem is just church or the people in the church, but I can't bring myself to ever trying to join a church. Everything I have seen is manipulative, self seeking, money hungery, lieing,selfserving churches, or I've also been on the other side of it to the point of self denial, sacrifice everything, sell things off, If your not thinking of Christ 24/7, then what you are doing is evil, unholy.
Where is the balance in church today? There is none. Now I understand why people give up all together. They either sell out, or the stay in the abuse of Christian counsel and leadership, or they never go to church again. I guess we are living in the end of end times. I am sorry to have bothered any of you. Its all in the name mislead soul and I am misguided, confussed and totally lost, I guess its not just church that has made me this way but also the associations outside of church that have confussed me further more. I would be better off to stay at home and read my own Bible. Is this wrong? Or would I be, um excuse the language but I don't know how to put it any other way, "damned" for not fellowshiping? Please do not think that TPC, is to balme for my confussion or state of being. I have gotten some good things out of TPC. I know this forum is dedicated to just one single church, but can anyone honestly say that the others are any better? How much do you really know of a church you attend, or are apart of unless you are behind the scenes or know of what is really going on? I know first hand how sly leadership can be in covering tracks and controlling without even thier own elite not even having a clue.

Hi Misleadsoul,

Yes, I can. Churches are like people -- if you look for good you will find it and if you look for shortcomings or the bad you will find that too. What I looked for was a Church that was interested in me as more than "a butt in a seat" (Mike Villamor's own words at the TPC 101 I attended). I wanted to know that I was more than a wallet or checkbook to the church I attended. I found that. Only you are going to know the right fit for you. I can tell you if you look for it and seek the Lord's help you will find the place you belong. Seek the Lord's guidance because a Church home is a very important and significant matter to all of God's children. Ask for His help and I am sure you will feel Him steering you to the right place for you.

D of D

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misleadsoul
Hum... how to begin? To be dreadfully honest I am stuck. I have grown up in the church all my life and visited every church possible in washington state. I don't know if my problem is just church or the people in the church, but I can't bring myself to ever trying to join a church. Everything I have seen is manipulative, self seeking, money hungery, lieing,selfserving churches, or I've also been on the other side of it to the point of self denial, sacrifice everything, sell things off, If your not thinking of Christ 24/7, then what you are doing is evil, unholy.
Where is the balance in church today? There is none. Now I understand why people give up all together. They either sell out, or the stay in the abuse of Christian counsel and leadership, or they never go to church again. I guess we are living in the end of end times. I am sorry to have bothered any of you. Its all in the name mislead soul and I am misguided, confussed and totally lost, I guess its not just church that has made me this way but also the associations outside of church that have confussed me further more. I would be better off to stay at home and read my own Bible. Is this wrong? Or would I be, um excuse the language but I don't know how to put it any other way, "damned" for not fellowshiping? Please do not think that TPC, is to balme for my confussion or state of being. I have gotten some good things out of TPC. I know this forum is dedicated to just one single church, but can anyone honestly say that the others are any better? How much do you really know of a church you attend, or are apart of unless you are behind the scenes or know of what is really going on? I know first hand how sly leadership can be in covering tracks and controlling without even thier own elite not even having a clue.

(I feel your pain it took us 2 years to find a church for us and just now can say that I am back into fellowship in a healthy environment. It was really hard for us to find the Church where God wanted us to be at. It was really hard to visit a Church and to hear the same songs that we heard at TPCWOC, but over time I got over it. It brought back the pain.It was hard to trust people in leadership again and felt like we had to be always on guard afraid to tell people about are experience and what church we use to attend. We to thought about home fellowship and I even went out and bought a bunch of Christian Worship music for home use. We visited around a dozen churches before we found our home. I did not want to attend a church that had anything to do with TPCWOC. So all the churches in the unity group I crossed of my list. Many of the churches the Forum people attend are safe places. Somtimes you feel like this Jesus stuff is not real after you see how leaders in the church abuse the word of God. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. That light is Christ himself and he will not give up on you no matter how much pain you have to go through.This week in Church the word was " being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus". (Paul was writing from a prison, and wanted us to not let the past, current failures and pain rob us of Gods future promises. God is not done with us he will carry it on to completion.)

Misleadsoul:

Many years ago I left the church because of hurts. I did investigate some churches but did not feel they were right for me. I thought that I will just read my bible at home and watch services on the TV. This was a huge mistake and a tactic from Satan to keep me out of fellowship. In a good church which I found there are people that God sends to you to comfort you. The Lord, I believe handpicks the right people for you personally because many of the hurts that you have suffered, they have already worked through and gained victory over.

I asked God to help me find the right church, and He did. And He did this for me in such a supernatural way. It may take visitations at a few churches before you find the right one. But, I know that God will help you find the right one. He did this for me. Don't let the enemy discourage you as he did to me at one time. God Bless

jesuschristismydelight:

See [www.culteducation.com]

Here are some simple points to remember when looking for a safe church and pastor.

The overwhelming majority of Protestant churches will fit well within these guidelines.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

To all:

To date the issues that still concern me are as follows: {please correct and advise what you thinks of them}.

I feel that since Pastor Jackie was accused of misappropriation of funds [WHICH SHE DID NOT DO) in front of the congregation; that the leaders should send out letters to all past and present members for another open meeting. At this meeting the leaders should address all the false accusations made about Pastor Jackie and give her and her family a public apology. I do not agree with the past actions of the original elders reconciling with her and her family privately.

At this same meeting the hard questions we all have been asking should be addressed i.e. why did the leaders and elders (which are suppose to be people of honesty, integrity and God pleasers, not people) let M&C continue with their wrongful actions for such a long time. Why did they not stop all of this in the very beginning?

At this same meeting: Why did the leaders and elders allow false doctrines to be preached by some leaders including guest speakers inside of the church? Don't they know false doctrine when they hear it?

At this same meeting: Full and honest accounting documenation should be distributed including true accounting of the Stewardship campaign.

I feel the pastor, previous elders, current elders, deacons, and small group leaders should be available to publicly repent to the congregation. Why so many? Because some in leadership are still in this mindset that since they are leaders they are part of the elite circle and think they are above others. PRIDE! Also they need to ask themselves, am I in the leadership role to be accepted and praised by others or has the Lord placed me here. And am I doing this out of love for Christ, or for the perks that come with it.

I know many of you have probably raised these questions already, but I have just recently come into this forum and am trying to catch up. God Bless

jesuschristismydelight:

The simple answer to your questions is this:

Without democratically elected church government there is no meaningful accountability. There are no safeguards, checks and balances to "stop all of this in the very beginning."

That why the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches have such safeguards.

Moreover, without meaningful financial transparency through regular annual independent audited financial reports, there is no certain way to know where all the money is going.

If you want real. genuine, proven answers regarding church finances an independently done financial audit by an outside accounting firm is the only way to be certain what happened with the contributions.

Again, such safeguards are typical for most churches and are mandated by their bylaws.

Regarding false doctrine, denominational oversight is usually a means of addressing this issue.

That is why there are Baptist conventions and denominations like the Assemblies of God, Evangelical Free Church, etc. Such denominational oversight is an added layer of accountability regarding doctrine. It allows for supervision, educational standards and an avenue for complaints if a pastor preaches false doctrine according to the denominational creed.

It is possible for an independent church without these safeguards to be alright, but less likely, and therefore more risky.

Think about it.

I have to agree with the Moderators last two posts. He is right on the money. Turning Point cannot move forward into becoming a healthy church unless there is a complete turn over in the leadership. Sorry to those who think otherwise, but neither Jeff Barnes or David Luster are equipped or qualified to steer the two TPC branches back onto the narrow path. Only when new outside Senior Pastors are found is there any hope for a change for the better at TPC. That along with the removal of all Elders and Deacons from positions of leadership in favor of new leadership based on sound Biblical principals for selection and democratic election with set term limits can leadership of TPC be able to lead.

Jeff Barnes is never going to call a meeting to publically apologize to Pastor Jackie and her family. It will never happen. And if he were to do so there are a lot of other people who he should be apologizing to that he personally treated quite badly the night of the Pastor Jackie roast by Mike and his minions. Jeff thinks the minor reference he made during worship which was not a part of the TPC message that gets posted to the internet was sufficient and that Pastor Jackie should be happy that they bothered to try to reconcile with her at all after Mike's departure. WHICH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO ANYONE WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH AND HAS SUPPORTED PASTOR JACKIE. The fact that Jeff Barnes knows what the right thing to do is and refuses to do the right thing says a lot about his character as a man and as a Pastor == UNFORTUNATELY.

D of D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2011 10:27AM by Daughter of Dorcas.