tellthetruth and brokenhearted you guys are bringing up old issues that have been dealt with especially on the RLC forum. Maybe it was Cyndis phoniness that someone was trying to convey. I could certainly give you all the attributes I saw in Rose that made her phone and some of it conisted of the way she spoke and acted. Let people be. If Cyndis voice sucks then it sucks and it matters because she is not putting quality into the ministry nor does she know where her gifts are. And as for the whole rahrah talk from tell the truth it would be better served in the locker room at halftime at a high school footbal game. You make it sound like pastora dnd churches are not capable of hurting and spiritual abusing people. Wake up! They can when they elevate themselves to put authority overy your lives. It happens in work situations all the time. When it is work do we say it is the workers fault that the boss abused them. All the the arguments you give are shallow, insensitive, andlack substance. If I saw a boa constrictor and he was going after my kids I would catch or destroy the boa consticter.

LearningPoint,

What truth. We are all at different points in this journey. Some are still sitting in the church reading these posts on the side lines. Others have just left and struggle with a roller coaster of emotions. Still others are safely in a new church and are writing in reflection, with a more complete viewpoint. There are younger and older people. People who were Sunday worshipers and others who invested every day of their lives with these people.

For me personally, it has been a journey. Some days I think I came straight from hell. Other days I just want to go back where it is safe, predictable and controlled. At times I just cry, thinking what have I done, forsaking the Word of God to ignorantly follow the masses. While at other times I become angry and am tempted to lose heart.

I must remember Matt 24. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Verse 12 says lawlessness will abound and as a result the love of many will grow cold. We often think of lawlessness as running around committing murder. But lawlessness is really simply not adhering to the Word of God. As a result of these people being deceived, their hearts will grow cold.

I say we continue to LOVE no matter what so that our hearts dont turn cold AND that we each remain in the Word, so we too cannot be deceived. As iron sharpens iron, may we each sharpen one another.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2009 03:37PM by Painfuljourney.

I am so joyful now after Pastor Mikeys sermon in Jan. on how to have real joy. I can't control myself, I'm just bubbling over with joy! Thank you so much Mikey on how to also Recession Proof my sex life, I really feel like a man now, Kind of like a hairy gorilla, can't what for your Marriage conference so I can learn how to do it! Mikey thank you for blessing my dirty socks off with how to Recession Proof my Finances, Dr. Increase was so wonderful, I only have to say my bible verse 10 times a day for forty days! Whoopee! I found 10 cents on the floor today and 10 days ago after my first 10 Increase verse I found a 10 dollar bill on the floor! Don't you get it? 10+10+10+10= 40days! Its true it really works! Thank you Mikey for Recession Proofing my family, I know you want my child so you can be the spiritual parent , go ahead take him, know big deal, some one has to do all the work for you around the church! Oh, Oh, I can't wait till next Sunday Recession Proof my Mindset, you can have my brain, i don't care, you don't really need it when you attend TPWOC with you there Pastor Mikey! You are so much smarter then us, you know what I mean, being a Modern Day Apostle you know whats best for us ,right! I almost forgot to thank you Mikey for not letting the big bad wovles into the church, the dog food you fed them was the most cleaver plan! Get the Wolf so full of dog food that he forgets about the sheep! Brilliant Mikey! I can't wait for how to Reccession Proof my Pet! (dog, cat, gold fish, etc)

Hello once again people of the fourm

I had a friend who will remain un-named challenge me on why i post on this fourm. He said that what i was doing was causing an open door for Satan to take a hold of to lead people to gossip and slander. So if i have lead anyone to slander or gossip please, let me say sorry. As well he mentioned (as did several others mention) that I should talk to Pastor Mike before i post on this fourm, so if it will help people receive me i will go meet with him so as to have a more vaild voice on this forum and in my friends lives. Untill then i will mention nothing personal from Pastor Mikes life.

I am here to help people realize that God is still on the throne, and that us loving these people (how ever mis-guided i believe them to be) is the primary focus of God. Never to throw some stones at some ones voice or talents. I believe this fourm could be a place for love and healing for those you used to attend, weather you left on good terms or bad terms, in a good fashion or a bad one, i believe God wants you to seek healing in how you conduct yourselfs on this fourm, as we are held accountable for everything we do.

Dear youth of OneEighty youth ministries, I know you might read this so i will post to help you better understand, of what i did. I took a step outside of the church and the drama, and the fast ministry paced lifestyle, that plagues churches all around. I looked in and found all the reasons i had "those weird gut" feelings. I proably did not do the best job at leaving, but for me i could no longer recieve from my leaders, and submit myself to their authority. I have found many things i disagree with, to the point that i will not attend. Do not leave cause i left, what you should do is ask questions to why i left, talk to me ask me to coffee, then ask pastor jeff why he believes i am wrong that way you can see both sides, and formulate your own opinion. DO NOT ANY CURCUMSTANCES LEAVE THE GOD WHO GAVE YOU LIFE, because many people are leaving.

I pray you find what God wants for you in your lives, as i have found what God wants me to do.

Yes whatajoke, we all would attack the boa, the problem is that you see Pastor Mike and Cindy as the boa. Not Satan and that it is satan that is the problem, that is all the others were refrencing too.

If reading my posts have helped you in any way please messege me, as my friend also challenged that i am not helping anyone. If not be honest
Thank you
Love Forgiveness

You would think that Tony would have just a little bit of common sense, to know that every word he speaks is recorded or is written down in someone's note book. that people will compare notes, and people will ask questions.

The evidence is already coming in from Tony's last visit at turning point church. All I can say folks hang on, its going to get bumpy!
Regarding, some of the outrageous statements Tony made at turning point...
can we say pathological liar!

Since the early days of Christianity, a disciple life have been confronted with the perversion of the revelation God has given us in the person of Jesus Christ. Historically, this perversion has extended not only to the teaching of our Lord, but, more important, to the person of Christ; for it is axiomatic that the doctrine of Christ himself, i.e., his person, nature, and work are perverted so that the identity of the life-giver is altered, then the life that he came to give us is correspondingly negated. And it is that precisely this juncture that in this day and age we come face-to-face with the phenomenon that the apostle Paul described in a second Corinthians, chapter 11, as “another Jesus.”

The problem is twofold, in that we misunderstand the nature of the “other Jesus” and then give biblical reasons why it is the obligation of Christians to identify him as a counterfeit and refused his other gospel.

There can be little doubt that the Christians of today can expect to encounter the very same or at least similar errors and perversions of the gospel message that his ancestors before them did. He should not be discouraged when they appear to have more success in twisting the truth of God than the Christian has in presenting it. The epistle to the Galatians to remind us that there are those who would “pervert the gospel of Christ,” and who would represent “any other gospel,” which in reality is not another gospel, but a counterfeit of the original, designed by the master craftsman of all evils, our adversary, the devil.

It may seem like oversimplification or naïveté to some people to suggest that Satan is the prime mover and architect of the major cult systems, but a careful consideration of the biblical evidence will allowed no other conclusion.

In his second Corinthian epistle, Paul penned one of the most solemn warnings recorded anywhere in the Bible, to which we have made previous reference he addressed his warnings to the Christians who work in great danger of having their minds (not there souls salvation) corrupt that for the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus. He was afraid, he said, that if someone should come to Corinth preaching “another Jesus... another spirit..., another gospel,” but Kerensky into my well be swept along with it to the sterilization of their Christian life and witness for Christ your Paul went on to underscore his point by drawing a deadly parallel between true Christianity and pseudo--Christianity. That is likened to a crafty design to copy of the original revelation of God in Christ.

After revealing the existence of a counterfeit Jesus, Holy Spirit, and the gospel, Paul completed the parallel by showing that there are also counterfeit up “apostles” and counterfeit “disciples” workers who transform themselves in appearance and demeanor to appear as ministers of Christ, but in reality, Paul states, they are representatives of Satan (2 Corinthian's 11:13-15).

Now, of course, Paul was speaking of those who could be readily identified as spiritual wolves in sheep's clothing. The moment they're teachings were compared with the true gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).

from Walter Martin "Kingdom of the cults" page 469

I think Learning Point has expressed my views exactly.

We are at different points in seeing things.

Little details are often indicative.

I am not real sharp when it comes to style and clothing consciousness.

I remember the first time my wife and I met Mike and Cyndi for lunch. She was pregnant with Joel and they both looked so normal.

It is weird when people undergo significant change and you can't help but wonder why.

Over the years I have noticed a phenomenon. Ministers who spend hours choosing suits, or clothing, obviously spending significant time making sure they are projecting the right image and then it was obvious they couldn't take the time to actually study the Biblical text they were speaking about. Often looking really professional and TV worthy speaking with the right facial expressions and body language but seemingly to busy to carefully examine the text.

I have witnessed small details in reverse also. People who do small kind things or it is obvous they don't obsess over the outside of the cup and it is endearing and rings true of their lives.

I think Satan is getting to much credit. Yes Satan deceives us, but we make the choice to follow. So Mike & Cindy are wrong because they are being used by Satan and deceiving others. So when you say Mike & Cindy are not the problem, yes they are. They have chosen to go against what the word teaches. May God open their eyes.

iI agree with not personaly attacking mike and cyndi it makes is sound like a personal vendeta intead of a truth finding and telling post. I think the real issue about cyndis voice is that, (and anywill tell you on the worship team) that cyndi stress's the fact that God wants excellence in worship, and that each person should play or sing excellently to The Lord. theres no question about that, the problem is cyndi set herself up as the determiner of excellence. She chooses who will sing who will play, who is excellent, and yet she herself isn't excellent. So that brings to question is she in delusion like those on american idol who sound bad but think their not, is her decernment way off. is her judgement impaired, is she directed by self, ambition, or just ego. Anyway whatever it is it is definatly conduct unbecoming a prophet. and who want to be directed by a prophet in delusion, are the gifts of the spirit present in our prophet, is there humility, love sacrafice for others, does she hear the voice of God or just selfish ambition. thats the questions that need answering

Thank you all for thoughtfully responding. I think it's good to talk through these things, to get to the heart of the issues. Yes, the details are indicators, and I think sometimes, those who are a little bit farther along in this journey can help those just begining to sort out the details.

I too have noticed the transformation, and I've struggled with it. What has struck me more than the transformation of Mike and Cyndi has been the transformation of the body at TP. As there has been a trend to move from worshiping God, to worhiping the pastors, more and more people have transformed themselves into the images of Mike and Cyndi.

Outreach, I agree, satan doesn't get all the credit here. In many ways, for me personally, this was much easier when I knew less, when I believed that Mike and Cyndi were blinded by sin, and being deceived. I know that they've been confronted with the truth, and it greives me that they continue on with false teaching and doctrine.

I've been asked, a few times, "what really is so wrong with this direction?" I've been told that the Apostolic ministry is a grey area, not really addressed in the bible. I would disagree. Matthew, Mark and Luke all discuss the appointment of Apostles. The only authority given to them was to drive out demons and healing the sick. There is little or no direction for an apostolic ministry, but given the repeated warnings against false prophets and apostles, I think it's pretty clear that this is in fact not a grey area. Follow a prophet, receive a prophets reward....what is the reward for following a false prophet? I can't...I won't risk my salvation, nor the salvation of my children by following a false prophet. I've also been asked, "what if he's [Pastor Mike] right?". So I say, what if he is? Will I be seperated from my God if choose not to follow the (supposed) apostle?

Just some some thoughts that I'm working through as I process all of this.....