Ten WARNING SIGNS of a potentially unsafe group/leader. (Pasted from a website)

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.



Ten WARNING SIGNS regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

PainfulJourney,

There are not enough words that can begin to make your pain go away. Please know that you are welcome here. No doubt you have begun a new direction in your journey and the steps that lie ahead perhaps seem difficult to even take.

Thank you for taking time to let us know that you are processing your experience.

We will pray for you that you will find the Peace that Passes all Understanding.

TPR

Leadership, Elders & Deacons at TP. Can you not see what is going on. All the pain you are causing with these different people that are sharing their hearts. Wake up and be accountable for your actions. 800 people plus lives you are affecting and deceiving. TP attenders, read the word with open hearts and don't let the leadership at TP deceive you any longer. We are praying for Mike, Cindy, leadership and church. I can't refer to him anymore as Pastor!!

I just wanted to thank you all for your welcome, support and prayers. I've been reading through this thread, and find that I am near tears most of the time, if not actually sobbing. I would love to share my story here, but I think that for now, it's all still to raw. I need to distance myself a bit. I agree with the posters who have said that so much good has come from tp. It truly breaks my heart for what it's become. My heart breaks for those that are deceived, and for those who will be held accountable in the final days. These are men and women that I truly love. I pray that others will stand up for what is good, and right. I pray for those that are left still standing on the battleground, fighting the good fight. And I pray for those that are blinded to the truth.

Hello everybody, my name is Andy Istvan. I have attended Turning Point for about 4 years now. I am aware that Turning Point just like every other church has flaws. I know by personal experience that the love of God is at Turning Point more than any other church I have ever attended. Some of you that have posted on this site believe in God but you have expressed your hurt from Turning Point. Growing up in the church almost my whole life I learned that my relationship with God is most important and after that it’s the salvation of others.

Another thing I have been taught is that when you leave a church, you leave it quietly. If you need to vent out your frustrations, you vent it out on you close friends and family, that’s what they are there for. I think personally writing a bunch of words that may come across as bitter on a website for the whole world to see hurts the Christian church as a whole and in some cases it could cause someone to never come to know God. If I was a non Christian and I read some of the posts on this site, here are some of the questions that would be raised in my mind.

1. How can a God that can’t even keep his church in order, save me from eternal damnation?
2. If all these churches are bad, which one is good?

I have really close friends that have posted on this site and some of the things they brought up to me were personal issues with Pastor Mike. When I asked if they went and set up a meeting with Pastor Mike for these things to be explained to them. They said no, in my opinion, if you don’t know someone’s heart behind their actions, you can’t go about accusing them for their actions. I love Pastor Mike and I know his heart on a lot of the personal issues listed in some of your posts. He’s not a bad guy like a lot of you make him out to be.

First of all one of the issues with Pastor Mike brought up on this forum is his accountability in Turning Point. Have you ever thought about your accountability about some of the things you write on this site. Who’s holding you accountable when you won’t even post your name and choose to remain anonymous? When I worked at Pastor Mike’s house doing some landscaping, working for my brothers landscaping company which got paid from Pastor Mike with no discounts, I had the opportunity to talk to him and the rest of his family on a daily basis. While working there he shared with me his heart on a lot of personal issues and I know that one of the biggest issues brought up about Pastor Mike is money. Pastor Mike and his wife Cindy started Turning Point out of their house over 10 years ago and Pastor Mike was delivering pizza for a living while doing other odd jobs that I can’t remember.

Just in the past few years Pastor Mike and Cindy started an interior design company with some of the other people in the church and they have also been investing in real estate. As far as I am concerned Pastor Mike and Cindy are hard working people just like you and I. When we talked about their business and the real estate that they have invested in, they began to tell us that their number one reason why they have started investing was so that they wouldn’t have to take a paycheck from the church anymore. Their heart is for the people that don’t know God and that extra money that they wouldn’t be taking would go to helping people and advancing the kingdom of God.

I realize that the main reason why most of you have posted on here, is that you feel like you are saving people from going to Turning Point and being hurt. I don’t know if you have considered this yet but maybe some of the words written on the forum can really affect a lot of new believers or people that don’t believe in God to either quit believing in God or choosing at that point to never believe in God no matter how much evidence there is that he is real.

Most people at Turning Point are aware that their church is not perfect just like every other church. I personally have disagreements that I won’t disclose on this forum, but I just make sure I am aware of those things and that if for some crazy reason Turning Point goes totally downhill, I am alright with that and I will go to a new church.

If all of you can sincerely say that you love God and you love people, really take my words into consideration because there are people out there reading these posts that can live the rest of their lives apart from God. I would not wish that upon anybody and to be honest it sickens me to think that I have the ability to keep people from spending eternity with our heavenly father by the words I choose to say on a website. My heart breaks for the people that may have already read some of these posts and have chosen to never believe in God because of what they read.

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outreach
I just received a phone call from a small group leader from TP wanting to know why we were leaving. I named the different things that we disagreed with and one thing I mentioned was Spiritual Parenting. He said they no longer taught that. They realized it was not scripitual and stopped. FYI.
outreach

Can a true apostle really not know that what he is teaching from the pulpit isn't scriptural?



Mike is not an apostle.
Mike is lost and doesn't even know he's lost.
What kind of apostle teaches something that isn't Truth?





A False Apostle.

Tp people don't forget false Apostle Mike Napoleon Villamor's guest speaker flim flam man, snake oil, crooked used car salesman, false prosperity teacher Bob ( my poopy don't stinky ) Harrison ( alias Dr. Increase ) will be at TPWOC Sunday, Febuary 15th. Who is going to be the first one to run up front to put there money in the little box?

Just a gentle reminder, we need to be careful what we say.

Outreach

Tp people don't forget Pastor Mike Vilamor guest speaker famous great speaker Bob Harrison will bless you this week end Sunday Feb. 15th. You will experience a increase in your finances. Hows that!

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BraveHeart

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wherefromhere
I really appreciate this site, however i think the sarcasm tends to discredit. I would pray that this forum could be used for posting that is beneficial to others. when we retaliate with the sarcastic tone, we are not being a proper reflection of the truth. I would encourage some to stop, because there are people that are interested in finding a support. The posts that contain the sarcasm turn them off to posting or being a part of this . Just my opinion. we are still reeling from the resignation of pastor and elder Jackie Singer. What a great loss for the body of tpc. She was a wonderful example of Gods love and grace.

sarcasm? tone?
I know I can be very passionate about what I'm writing about, but to imply a specific sarcastic tone? I believe it really comes down to the reader. Tone is not delivered by words but in how one reads the words. You can read a quote and inject your best British accent, that sets a tone or you can be laughing and read the same thing and it has a different tone.
Try this read the following quote and do your best Captain Barbossa voice;
"...and if a wolf comes into our midst, I don’t know, we will buy it dog food.”
Now read the same thing with a Larry the cable guy voice.

If we don't laugh from time to time we end up becoming angry.
Laughter helps people deal with hurt and my next statement will illustrate my point

I would like to bring to your attention the absurdity that is going on in your church!
That fact that Mike and Tony have convened several people that they are apostles is major issue! Especially when there is no evidence to back up there claim. In all the postings on the Radiant Life and Turning Point forum nobody has been able to back up these two goofballs with any testimony or evidence that would support there claim that they are apostles.
Now i called Tony and Mike Goofballs and that accurately describes there behavior!

So I encourage you to be passionate about what you believe! be specific and truthful and from time to time laugh.

I don't think that "sarcasm" is the exact word to capture the concern, I think a better word might be "TAUNTING" that people are opposed to. It kind of takes the argument to the playground level, and we want to keep it at a place where it cannot be dismissed as childish. We want to be taken seriously. Wit for comic relief is one thing, but taunting kind of pulls the rug of credibility out from under our own feet. My two cents. Nothing more or less.