Hi, I am also an ex-Christadelphian. I was born into a strict Logos environment whereas my husband was from a traditional English environment. Part of our relationship initially was exploring the differences in understanding and practice between these groups and deciding what was right. This lead to my acceptance of other Christian denominations, whereas my husband lost his faith in God and Christianity. After resigning from the Christadelphians we went to the Baptist faith for about a year for my benefit and then I lost my faith as well. This all took more than 10 years and now we have left 8 years ago!

The majority of my family are still Christadelphians, so it will always be a part of our lives. My dad likes to do a bit of preaching. Some of our friends in Christadelphia are still friendly. I feel we handled the situation of losing our faith really well. We made as little noise as possible and left. I don't feel a need to enlighten Christadelphians regarding the obvious flaws in the religion, because I think it is quite benign if you are happy attending the meetings.

As teenagers growing up in the religion, some of my friends were quite traumatised. There was a lot of 'wrath of God' and judgment talked about and I know one of my friends (ex-Christadelphian) still has an irrational fear of the judgment seat.

There are many steps during the 10 years of slowing disbelieving which I am sure are common for other ex-Christadelphians, which I will briefly list below.

1.Excited belief in kingdom and Jesus and embracing of all aspects of Christadelphian thought.
2.Intense study and attendance at meetings, seeking to embrace all conventions

3. Good Christadelphians have different opinions on important topics e.g. interpretation of Bible prophecy
4. Jesus did not behave like a Christadelphian
5. Doctrine is not the ultimate concern of the Bible
6. Reality in the Bible is determined by the time of writing
7. The Bible is a search for God by various pious and impressive people
8. Religion is a social construct with definite benefits and some flaws.
9. People use religion to improve their social standing, authority and reputation
10. Religious people are no different to any other group. There is no special power in it.

Hi
I have attended a Christadelphian meeting here in New Lynn, Auckland, New Zealand. At their entrance they have a creed Poster, which states they don't believe in the Devil as such,as a fallen angel or being,but that man's mind is the devil itself.I am brown,and I was in a church full of white folks,not a brown person in sight.
All the white people looked at me kind of funny.
They were situated in Khyber Pass in Auckland but they moved.I was informed by a Christian man, that they are very money orientated,and he was trying to get his brother out of there,as he appeared to be being fleeced.
I felt pretty uncomfortable in their church,and couldn't help but feel there was no Holy Spirit presence there.
I think all these SUN-day based churches are simply branch outs of the old Roman Catholic state church created by Constantine,and many of there doctrines are changed to suit the times, draw the crowds,bring in tax free monies,and are a form of mind control.
Nothing personal. I just study religion a lot.

Hi to all ex-Christadelphians and those inquiring about the Christadelphian faith. I recently joined the Berean Christadelphian ecclesia (www.bereans.org) after seven years of serious Bible study and then getting baptized. I used to be part of an Assemblies of God Pentecostal church, and have asked on many occasions since I was seven years old for consistent Biblical evidence for why the church believed in doctrines such as the Trinity, the immortality of the soul, believers going to heaven, hell being a lake of fire that souls are eternally tormented, the existence of a personal immortal rebel fallen angel Devil, and in my case, why you needed to speak in tongues to have salvation. As I got older, I started to realize that these doctrines could not be proven with sound Biblical reasoning. Most probably feel this way today, but are too afraid to speak out.

I met a Berean Christadelphian, not knowingly at the time, and asked him some of the same questions. I was surprised to hear that he disagreed with my church's beliefs on every single one of these points. I wondered how this was possible, especially in light of the fact that he seriously read and studied the Bible daily for more than 30 years. I was suddenly immersed in volumes of Scriptural evidence to the contrary, and at the same time, became very knowledgeable about the Kingdom of God, a fundamental apostolic doctrine that is either ignored by, or inexplicable to modern Protestant Christian churches. I feel very blessed today to know and believe "the Truth" as understood by the Christadelphians. It is surprisingly simple and intelligible.

To those of you who left a Christadelphian ecclesia because you felt oppressed by the other members, I want to apologize on their behalf for any wrong doing on their part. This is a human world, and sadly, individuals can give an entire group a bad reputation. I believe that the Truth needs to be demonstrated with love, which Paul states he is nothing without in 1 Corinthians 13, though he understand all mysteries. Believers should lovingly persuade others, and not twist anyone's arm to believe anything. My personal conviction of the Bible as God's inspired Word and the consistency of Christadelphian doctrine led me to choose the Christadelphian understanding of the Scriptures.

To those questioning the Christadelphian faith from the 'outside world' looking in, there is no doubt that the world considers Christadelphians to be a cult. Bear in mind that the Jews in Paul's day, especially Pharisees, considered Paul to be in a new 'cult'. They bore recognition of this in telling Paul "But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against" (Acts 28:21). Jesus himself said that "strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Mat 7:14). "The Way, the Truth, and the Life" has never been popular with humanity, and must necessarily suffer persecution. The reward for enduring until the end is eternal life.

I ask you likewise to desire to hear of the Christadelphians, what they think, and see if you are convinced of the Scriptural evidence. All of your Bible questions can be answered to satisfaction. The articles published on bereans.org is a great way to get started!

Hope,

You clearly either weren't a Christadelphian or failed to understand some of their most basic beliefs. Never would they state that they would be in the Kingdom - they are, if anything, too much of the view that their sinfulness excludes them and it is only by God's good grace that they would be so rewarded. Neither do they take the view that they are in any way 'special' - they do, however, believe that they have the 'truth' - don't many other denominations also!?

Members are entirely free to join or resign - the matter if disfellowship can be, and is, painful but what is wrong with any denomination setting out clearly - as Christadelphians do - their Basis of Fellowship but then if members disagree / stray from it and not able to be persuaded otherwise to then be withdrawn from? All Clubs ' Societies etc. have rules and regulations - the Christadelphians believe that theirs are solidly biblical and so they try harder than many denominations to maintain that 'thruth' believeing that eternal life depends on it. That seems a laudable aim.

They are too often though rather 'legalistic' and defensive and theere are too many different fellowships whose disputes are often not matters of 'salvation' but more of style and strong personalities - you see, they are just human like the rest of us!

'SoulRebel' - you clearly do not 'just study religion a lot' otherwise you would not make the comments that you do. Christadelphians have no paid Ministers and all their income is self-given. They do not accept money from non-Christadelphians. Any charitable status is in strict accrodance with legal and moral / biblical requirements such as, in the UK for instance, running Care Homes which they largely fund themselves, the Meal A Day Fund which provides physical help in impoverished countries to non-Christadelphians etc. Unlike the Roman Catholic Church which is unrecognisable from first century christianity with its untold wealth and paid employees Christadelphians TRY to follow, albeit often imperfectly, those original principles and beliefs. Before criticising - and they have no trouble with responding to criticisms - at least get your facts straight.

To whom it may concern:

SoulRebel has been banned from this message board.

I am currently married to an ex-christadelphian, well at least I thought so when we got married. She was married to a man who is a leader in an ecclesia near where we live. We dated for a long time and as has been mentioned above, she essentially believes the opposite of any doctrine my church believes.

I have done some significant study over the past year, on Christadelphian forums, and also on my own to study the verses and logic they use to establish their doctrine. I, and this is from my personal experience, found that the arguments in support of their doctrine require a lot of taking verses out of context, a great deal of denial of plain bible language, and the like. For instance, when Christ was tempted in Matthew 4, the Christadelphian belief is that all temptation is internal (that Satan is just "an adversary", not an actual being) and that Christ was born of a sinful nature and therefore tempted himself from that sinful nature. Which, if you read the temptation, makes no sense at all. I questioned this and then was told there were other explanations of the temptation of Christ, such as it could have been Caiaphas, the High Priest at the time. Which doesn't make sense either since he could not offer kingdoms of the world that were not his to offer. At best, to believe as a Christadelphian, it requires subscribing to opposing schools of Hebrew and Greek translations, and making most everything in the Bible an "allegory", a word they frequently misuse as well. I am not saying this to disparage anyone who may believe what they believe. I will say that the websites I posted on were at best rude and argumentative, while I attempted to keep a civil tone, my responses were usually piled on by the moderators, and most responses said I could not read, didn't understand the definitions of words, so on. It was not a discussion forum, as they stated, I will be happy to email anyone a copy of my posts from their "Bible Truth Discussion Forum". My wife, when actually going to "meeting" would ask questions and be threatened with dis-fellowship for questioning the doctrines and frequently told she was not "intelligent enough" to understand it. I was surprised at the angry way that people who claim Christ in any way would respond to things. When I questioned the writings of their founder, John Thomas, and his pupil, Robert Roberts, both of whom made specific predictions of when Christ would return, their response was that he was just a man and he made mistakes. When I said that he prophesied, they said that he never said he was stating prophesy, just estimating Christ's return. If I disagreed too much with them, even respectfully, I received warnings from the moderator. But, I digress from my true reason to post here.

I am looking for help for my wife from a TRUE ex-Christadelphian, not someone who was dis-fellowshipped but still holds to their beliefs. My wife was "thrown out" of her eccelsia when she had marital problems. Her ex-husband, and I won't get into details, did much more to be "dis-fellowshipped" as was noted above, but was never "disciplined" at all. We are trying to work with the, and I am not trying to be offensive, brainwashing, that she has been subjected to while in the religion and it is difficult. I would have to agree with many of the people posting here, based on my conversations both online and with her ex-husband, and even initially my wife, they believe only they have "the truth" and that anyone not within their way of believing is destined to, well they don't believe in hell, so destined to death with no hope. I have never seen anything like it to be honest. I have spent hour upon hour studying and refuting arguments point by point, but my wife's brainwashing is so significant that we have only found one point to agree on that goes against Christadelphian doctrine, that being that Christ died as a substitutionary sacrifice and not as a representative sacrifice as Christadelphians teach.

If anyone can help me, please email me and I will put you in touch with her.

Ben

"AndrewM1" has two postings in this discussion. One post, responding to "SoulRebel" is appropriate; "SoulRebel" clearly had only a very superficial exposure to Christadelphianism and developed some misperceptions about the religion.

"AndrewM1" is off the mark, however, in his responses to Hope Tailor. She does not state, as he implies, that Christadelphians take for granted that they will all be in "The Kingdom" (the Christadelphian version of Heaven); she states they believe they will be judged on Judgement Day (meaning, some will be found worthy of eternal life and some will be found unworthy of it). Christadelphians believe all non-Christadelphians are damned to eternal death (Christadelphians do not believe in a literal Hell) and they also hold that many amongst the Christadelphians themselves will be judged and found unworthy of eternal life in "The Kingdom." Hope Tailor, by not stating this belief explicitly, was not saying Christadelphians believe all Christadelphians get "saved."

"AndrewM1" further states Hope Tailor incorrectly describes Christadelphians as a group believing they are "special." Yet they do indeed think they are "special" when they contend that the rest of Christendom and humanity in general is consigned to eternal death by virtue of their failure to subscribe to the narrow doctrinal beliefs held by the tiny percentage of humankind adhering to Christadelphianism. What could be more "special" than belonging to such an elite little group? Christadelphians also consider themselves special by virtue of their being "separate" from the rest of the species; keeping "apart" from the rest of mankind is a part of their doctrine. They do not do jury duty, own weapons, do military service, vote, engage in political activity of any kind, etc. They are strongly dissuaded from marrying outside of their (for the most part) tiny groups. These things make them different, and they see these things as making them something "apart" or "special." They might not use the word "special," but it definitely fits the way they perceive themselves.

"AndrewM1" has a detailed knowledge of Christadelphian charitable activities, such as Care Homes and the Meal A Day Fund. It is very unlikely any non-Christadelphian would be familiar with such charities, and Andrew's user name "AndrewM1" probably translates into its obvious meaning "Andrew - Am One," meaning Andrew is an adherent of Christadelphianism and his posts are intended to defend his religion. That is commendable, but if this site is meant to assist in cult recovery, I don't think any more posts by this individual should be presented. We decrease the chances of people breaking away from these groups if we allow the groups' adherents to argue them back into the fold.

Andrew ends his response to Hope Tailor by stating Christadelphians are "human like the rest of us." If he is an adherent of Christadelphianism, he has no problem believing six billion of us are excluded from God's love and mercy and redemption simply because we have failed to become Christadelphians. In his mind this may be a "humane" philosophy but probably not to most people.

Where to begin. First, there appear to be two "threads" or lines of postings regarding the subject "Christadelphian HELP PLEASE." Try to read both threads, as both have insightful information and comments.

Secondly, there is plenty of information about Christadelphian doctrine / teachings on the Internet, and plenty of information about what constitutes a cult. So I won't add more language in those regards, except to say that in my experience Christadelphianism meets some of the commonly recognized criteria for being a cult.

Note that no one in a cult ever believes they are in a cult. They are always the adherents of "The Truth." If you asked the Branch Davidians the day before they died if they belonged to a cult, they would all have emphatically insisted that you were the one who was delusional -- not them.

Christadelphianism did have a central charismatic figure, John Thomas, who presented himself as being a visionary in terms of what he believed. Most cults have such a figure. Since his time, because there is no central governing body in Christadelphianism, each church or ecclesia operates independently from the others. Because of this, while the great majority of Christadelphians are gentle, peaceful and honorable bible scholars, in some of their meetings the absence of a central governing body allows zealots to assume control of a church and run it using fear, intimidation and dogmatism. This can probably happen to some extent in any house of worship, but more so in one in which there is no higher authority other than the presumed authority of God. In this context, in which personalities can so easily come into play, it is also not uncommon for discipline to be administered in different ways; a member may be harshly disciplined for the same misbehavior for which another member receives no punishment at all.

In this context, it is also easier for different forms of fanaticism to evolve. I noticed some Christadelphians were health nuts long before it was popular, some give themselves over to studies of numerology, etc. These are irregular developments, but they happen. And much, much worse.

Let me state here my following comments are based only on my personal experiences; they nonetheless occurred in the realm of Christadelphianism. I was part of a small group of Christadelphians who decided the Second Advent (the second coming of Christ) was imminent and "salvation" depended on being in Israel during the End Time (for lack of a better expression). These individuals divested themselves of their homes and possessions and migrated into Israel, and I was amongst them. We experienced discrimination, deportations, and financial ruin, but the worst thing some of us experienced was violence at the hands of our co-religionists. For real or imagined sins, or real or imagined contradictions of doctrine, some of us were beaten on a very regular basis. Several times I was beaten awake from a sound sleep during the night, for the sin of "slothfulness." After a time, the beatings were simply protocol.

In time, we all filtered back to our home country, damaged, bankrupted, and broken. Returning home, I assumed a membership in a Christadelphian church to which some of my elderly relatives belonged. My relatives had spent decades contributing funds to the group, with the unspoken understanding that the group would on some level care for them or watch over them in their old age. Such care is necessary due to the insular nature of most of the Christadelphian churches; the church is the main or even the only social and support network most Christadelphians have. You're on the inside, a member of the church, or you're nobody. A non-entity, in their eyes. And old age is no time in which to lack a support network.

Even so, I noticed pretty quickly that the unspoken promise of "care" never materialized, and the result was a vast amount of additional suffering in my family.

Would I venture to say these experiences were irregular? Yes. But they nonetheless occurred, amongst Christadelphians considered to be "strong in their faith." (That's a compliment they utter for those members considered particularly devout.)

Christadelphianism's enduring gift to me is not any particular doctrinal belief, but the emotional and physical scars that will be with me until the end of my life.

And, perhaps luckily, when you leave them, you cease to exist; that is the experience of most of us who have left. No one comes after you. You simply vanish. All of the people who told you they were your friends and comrades, who hugged you each Sunday and expressed their deep affection for you.....for the vast majority of them you have rightfully become invisible, because you are no longer a member of the chosen flock.

You become a heretic for questioning their doctrine, a leper, the original invisible man. You are written out of the Book of Eternal Life, and crossed off in your friends' address books.

Finally, let me wrap it up by saying it feels all wrong to confess any of this information, even though it is the truth. Confessing it, and leaving the Christadelphians, feels like a betrayal of my life's history. Breaking away from them feels like I've lost something that was a part of me, even though I was often very unhappy to be in their midst. Having relatives still in the religion compounds my sense of loss and brokenness. I feel like I am betraying my relatives and abandoning a legacy my deceased loved ones tried to give me. I know a part of me will always feel a desire to return, despite the things that happened.

In essence, despite my wounds, I am torn between wanting to flee and wanting to return.

Maybe that is the best description of my experience that I can provide to anyone. I will let the individual reader decide if my testimony paints a picture of a cult.