Let me guess, the kingman church right lol

jeff watkins

They are anti education, it is mocked, I informed the fellowship when I was pastoring in West Sacramento California, That I wanted to start college classes to be a music teacher, I am a musician, they mocked me and advised me my calling was to pastor not be a school teacher.

They have always put down higher education and by the way syminary, anyone who attended bible college was a backsliding, lukewarm piece of s;;;t.

Pardon my french,

jeff watkins

hi on the specially appointed or annointed, they take it from the old testament scripture, touch not God's annointed. They also love to beat you over the head with " And God gave some pastors, teachers, ect ect ect,

I was a member of both cults as the kingman church began as a praise chapel, was taken over by potters house when mitchell wormed his way into foursquare, then became praise chapel again, they really are one and the same, split or no split, potters house, victory chapels, the door, la puerta, prasie chapel all the same. and yes larry nevelle now runs fellowship out of rancho cucamonga, he is mike nevelle's brother, by the way his dad pop nevelle pastored the hawaii church living high on the hog. Carl Friedrich church in orange is part of the hyarchy, carls son adam married larry's daughter, bringing the two kingdoms together.

Destructive cult, aint no getting around it, all the earmarks are in place.

jeff watkins

Let me tell you folks, the leadership at Praise Chapel is a bunch of mean spirited people. You get involved with these folks, it is enough to wish you never got saved. All they do is bring destruction and grief, anyone who questions this has never been a pastor or met in a pastors meeting in P.C.

As for the guys who dispute it, they are a bunch of sheep going bahh, they dont think for themselves not ever had, but you know what, you can bullshit a bunch of ex gangbangers, they are used to taking orders and not questioning anything, most pastors in praise chapel are ex gangbangers, who just take orders and shoot and kill from the pulpit, but there is a payday coming with Jesus, y'all are going to give account one day for the souls you destroyed boys.

Y'all reap what you sow, or in the words of the rest of the world, what comes around goes around, study the greek up on that boys,

jeff watkins

Wow. I mean, really all i can say is wow. lots going on in this thread.

i happened upon this thread while doing an internet search for a pastor in another state to see if we could get some help to a disabled vet in that part of the country.

I've been a member of a PCCF church for about 8 years now. However, our church does not carry the 'Praise Chapel' moniker in our name. In that time, i can honestly say i have never seen, experienced or heard of any of the types of things that are being discussed in this thread. That's not to say that these things aren't real and legitimate, just that they have not been a part of my personal experience.

A few posters in this thread have painted their opinion with a very wide brush, and they have every right to do so based on their experience. However, I believe that in the sake of fairness, i will give you my opinion based on my experience. Keep in mind that my experience is limited mostly to the goings on at my church, and the activities within our fellowship. While some may be inclined to view the entire Praise Chapel Fellowship as a cult, I can honestly say that none of the things that have been addressed as cultic in this thread have been a part of my experience.

I was raised in a fiercely independent, non-denominational restoration movement church that was about 70 years old and had a democratically elected board of elders and financial transparency. However, the church started as a 'pioneer work' by a little lady in the community who saw a need for a church and took the initiative to start one up. i do not know how long the church ran, and under what governmental style, before it took on its current structure. i say all that to say that based on my upbringing, i was very conscientious of all the things that have been addressed prior to becoming a member of the church i attend now.

to address a few of the things that have been brought up...
when i first started attending, the church was about 6 months old and was probably running about 30 members. At that point, there was no leadership other than the Pastor and his wife. I didn't really think to question it, because i was just looking for church, and i liked this one, and i didn't see anything that raised any alarms for me. As we grew, i did ask the Pastor about some of these things. At that point, the Pastor indicated that he was accountable to not only his Pastors, and congregation, but also to the board of directors whom were Pastors from other churches not affiliated with Praise Chapel. There were no elected officials because at that early stage, there were not men with enough spiritual maturity to take on the role of Elder, nor the maturity for a small congregation to elect them. He was very open that he understood that his ultimate accountability was to God and made it clear to us who the contact people were should there be any concerns with him as a Pastor (blatant sin, preaching heresy, abuse, etc.). After some time, a group of 5 guys were selected as elders, each whom had come from other churches, one whom had pastoral experience, one whom was an elder in the other churches he had attended, two others who were in leadership in the churches they had been in, and the 5th was a bible study and worship leader in our church. The Pastor's accountability then was extended directly to the eldership of the church. Thankfully in the 8 years that i have been attending, there have been no problems.

In those early days, the Pastor was working full time and did not draw a salary, however, when we reached a point as a church where he could be supported to more effectively do the job of pastoring a growing congregation, his salary was determined by the board of directors, based on a survey of pastoral salaries for churches of similar size in the area the church was located, and the church finances were audited by the financial director of another church (again, not affiliated with PC). The financial records were open to members, but I don't know whether or not anyone ever asked to see them. I never did, nor did i ever feel the need to.

Today, our church has a democratically elected board of elders and deacons, bylaws are reviewed and voted on every two years, our finances are audited by a former IRS agent and are shown in our annual congregational meeting. our budget, including all salaries, must be approved by congregational vote.

now.... I cannot speak for how any other church in the fellowship handles their business, but i can speak as to how our church is run.

potter's house...
i can tell you that our church is in no way associated or affiliated with potter's house, Wayman Mitchell, CFM, the door, or otherwise. As a matter of fact, our church absorbed a large number of congregants form a local potters house church that fell apart about 7 years ago. A few of them have become very close personal friends of mine and have told me in confidence of some of their experiences in their church, and have openly stated that they found their healing and restoration in our church because it was the opposite of what they experienced under their former headship. I am happy to say that two of the couples that came in from that ministry are now pastoring with the full support of our church.

Headship...
I see alot of stuff about how this church or that church 'run' the whole fellowship. i can tell you that no one runs our church but our church. Although we are very connected to our fellowship, our Pastor and board of Elders are the only ones who determine the course and direction of our church. Likewise, our church does not run our church plants. The Pastors are responsible to run their own churches. However, those Pastors are still accountable to the leadership of our church, as well as to their congregations.

abusiveness...
I can honestly say that i am saddened and disheartened by allegations of abuse and hurt being posted in this thread. not because it happened at a PC church, but that it happened at all in any church. i know what its like to be hurt in church and my heart goes out to you. without diminishing the experiences that others have had, I am thankful to say that none of this type of stuff goes on in our church. does that mean that no one has ever gotten their feelings hurt because of something that the pastor said, or a decision that the leadership made? no. that's going to happen no matter where, because people are people. But in regards to being abusive, manipulative, controlling, harsh or overbearing... never seen it in my church. if anything, my Pastor has a tendency to be overly gracious with people. its been a great learning experience because by nature i've always been something of a skull cracker, and watching him pastor with patience and long suffering has started to rub off.

in regards to the high pressure sell... I can honestly say that our Pastor does encourage our church to be as involved as we can/want to be. we're a pretty good sized church with alot of ministries and to be involved with everything would kill most people. luckily there are whole bunch of people doing things so it kinda lightens the load on everybody. some people choose to be more involved in different ministries, but thats by choice. i for one have never been pressured into doing anything. as a matter of fact, the first time i was asked to join a ministry by the pastor i flatly rejected the notion based on purely selfish reasons. he simply smiled and said "okay, if you change your mind, let me know" and let it go at that. i eventually did change my mind, but not because i was pressured into it. when we were a smaller church, it took a more concerted effort from a smaller group to do all the things the church needed to do... evangelism, etc., and our Pastor really did encourage us to get to everything we could. He believed it was good for him, and that it was good for us. I believe it was good for me. In all honesty, i needed to stay involved so that i didn't get involved in other things. All that being said, i cant recall an instance where i ever saw the Pastor chastise someone, or treat them differently than anyone else because they did more or less than the next person, or because they did or didn't show up to this or that. I can say that the leadership at our church is expected to be at certain things on a regular basis because thats part of being a leader, but i can also say that after a discussion i had with the Pastor over lunch at a marriage retreat recently, he's looking for ways to take things off of everybody's plate, because there's no benefit in a burned out church. All that said, I have seen people getting a gentle nudge here and there either because there was an unfilled need in the church (nursery worker, usher, whatever...) or because somebody thought they would be a good fit for the ministry, or because they thought is would be a good for the individual's personal growth to get involved. but i can honestly say that none of what has been stated above has taken place in my church.

so why take the time to post all this?

its because i love my church and i'm very proud of what is going on in it. I see really great things happening not only in the fellowship that planted my Pastor, but in our local fellowship as well. I would be disappointed to think that someone would associate our church and fellowship with something that happened in some other church and fellowship.

I do not doubt for one minute that there have been other PC pastors who have made mistakes, and as a result people have been hurt. Its a crying shame. But to paint with a too wide a brush is unfair.

Blessings.

dear alteredpilot,

thank you for sharing your thought's about the Praise Chapel you attend but to say that THE people posting are painting the fellowship with too broad of a paintbrush is absurd. Yes, there are horribly bad praise chapels out there. And also take into consideration that people who post here do not know each other, come from different places, but have very similar stories. When I stumbled onto this thread it was a God send my family went through a really horrific and devastating sort of events at the Praise Chapel we attended and this thread has helped in the healing process, so please think about that. Everyday is a healing process I still deal with pass memories and hurts but I give them to my Lord Jesus Christ knowing He is the author and finisher of my faith. Please dont diminish those people that have been hurt by Praise Chapel churches because it happens and people come here to vent,heal and move on from these terrible circumstances that take place in Praise Chapel. A lot of the churches are unhealthy and I would encourage anyone who goes to an unhealthy church weather it be a praise chapel or other church to find a healthy church. so yes be proud of your church but also remember not all praise chapels are created equal. and if you dont like what people are saying about YOUR fellowship do something about it!

ravenbynight:

See [www.culteducation.com]

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

ravenbynight,

if you read my post, you will see that i in no way attempted to diminish anyone else's experience. my intent was not to defend Praise Chapel as an organization, because i'm not involved with Praise Chapel as an organization. my intent was simply to relay my personal experience in my local church and to show that our church has addressed a number of the issues raised in the way of accountability and financial transparency. i have no experience in any of the other churches that have been discussed, so i cannot speak to anything that may have happened in those churches.

might there be unhealthy churches out there? sure. and i think its a crying shame. do i believe that my church is one of them? no. Do i believe that there is anything cultic about my church? no. Have i seen or heard of any of the things mentioned here in any of the churches in my fellowship? no. so along that line of thinking, i think its unfair to paint all praise chapels with the same brush. nowhere in the 14 pages of this thread did i see anyone say anything negative about the fellowship that my church belongs to. they have spoken about other churches, other fellowships and THE fellowship at large, none of which have any influence over me nor I over them.

I'm really sorry that you got hurt in the church were attending. i can't think of anything worse than someone getting hurt in a place that is supposed to be a place of healing. I pray that you continue to find your healing.

alteredpilot:

You say, "our church has addressed a number of the issues raised in the way of accountability and financial transparency."

Please explain this.

When you say "accountability" do you mean that your church has a democratically elected board voted upon by the general membership by secret ballot , which serves fixed terms, and has the power to fire and/or hire pastor?

When you say "financial transparency" does that mean your church publishes and distributes to all contributors an independently audited (by an outside accounting firm) annual financial statement/budget, which discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and all expenses paid out of church funds?

"I've been a member of a PCCF church for about 8 years now. However, our church does not carry the 'Praise Chapel' moniker in our name."

I am quoting altered pilot from his/her first post. If this is the case then I don't understand why you would even post on this particular site. In my opinion it doesn't make any sense. How are you a member of the fellowship if your church isn't called Praise Chapel? Does your church answer to the mother church in Huntington Park CA? Or Larry Neville ultimately?

Something doesn't sound right to me. I'm glad you haven't experienced or think you haven't experienced the same things that we have but for you to end up on this site - your web search would have had to have had key words that would bring you here. This may sound paranoid but if I didn't know better I would think that you're pastor or a leader from the fellowship may have asked you to add a positive post. Based on what you posted - it still sounds like you pretty much don't know exactly what goes on in your church - its just that so far you are comfortable with what you allow yourself to see.

This is not an attack - its just my opinion. You said you read the whole 14 pages - well so did - and the only reason I could get through the whole thing is because I had many of the same experiences and could instantly relate to the others. If you are happy and have not experienced any of this then I don't understand why you would find it necessary to express your experience at such length and detail when you have nothing in common with the rest of us.