I was a member of PCOC sometime ago. I remember that Pastor would always "open the books" each year and lay out what the church did with its finances. It was a rather boring service, but what it did for me was create a trust factor. I gave because I wanted to, because that was the least I could because of what the Lord did for me. As for accountibility, this was an important requirement that was to be developed by any member if they wanted to attain a place in ministry. If a person was not willing to be accountable, then how could they be trusted. Accountability was not something studied or a test that had to be passed, it was something that came from the heart, a desire to minsiter and be a person that people could look to and trust for biblical instruction and direction. I never saw PC as a cult based on the definition of what a cult is. There was never any mind control, or weird teaching. As believers, we are required to serach the scriptures to see if these things (Pastor's messages) were lined up to the Word of God. I did this and never found any doctrinal issues, or any thus saith Pastor Carl.

nawdew:

What you describe as a willingness to "open the books" is not meaningful and detailed financial disclosure. That is done through an annual financial statement/budget, which discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds, which is independently audited by an outside accounting firm.

What you describe as somehowl "willing to be accountable" is not specific enough. Meaningful accountability is typically provided through church bylaws, which require a democratically elected board elected by the general church membership. The board can then hold the pastor accountable and has the power to fire him. The board would also set the budget, including salaries, compensation, etc. and serve fixed terms, subsequently standing for election again or leaving office and being replaced by newly elected board members.

This is how most Protestant churches are run.

Additionally there is most often also denominational accountability through an umbrella organization such as the Southern Baptist Convention, Assemblies of God, etc. The denomination sets church doctrinal standards, educational requirements and may address grievances. The denomination is also governed by an democratically elected leadership.

What is so amazing to me is that I do not have to sight examples within my post of what I am talking about because the people who are posting in favor of PCCF express it perfectly. They cannot answer straightforward questions of fiscal or pastoral accountabilty of a democratically elected church board because there isn't one. It is so far out of there scope of understanding they don't even realize that they don't even come close to acknowledging or understanding what we as former members are saying because they are indoctrinated with the "Praise Chapel" code.
Obey without question, being right with Headship is tantamount to being right with the Lord even if Headship themselves are not right even when its obvious.

Rick is Frank is talking about Howard Pennington the Arizona Pastor, I can tell you from first hand knowledge that he does not have a board nor would he ever have a board, there is no transperancy in this P C either. I know this as I attended that church on and off for the last five years.

All this nonsense from these Praise Chapel supporters, They are either really unaware or just following the crowd in regards to the abuse, cohersion, manipulation that runs rampant through the whole fellowship. These are not isolated instances, but is promoted, taught, indoctrinated and reinforced from the Mother Churces of P.C.

The leadership as P.C. does have a board of pharasee's Carl Friedrich, Larry Nevelle, ect, by the way the powers that lead P.C. really push for inner marriage of their kids to the other boards kids, again example Carl Friedrick;s son is married to Larry Nevelle's daughter, kinda reminds me what the egyptians did in inner marriage to keep control and the so called bloodlines pure.

Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor of Praise Chapel, West Sacramento CA, Orlando Florida, Bullhead City Arizona.

Pastor J.W. Who are you, what is your full name, are you afraid of identifying yourself? I bet we know each other because I was there from the beginning too, I did my brainwashing (discipleship) in the first baby church of the fellowship, the Kingman Arizona Church. Johnny Dorris was not the first, Alan Cates was, ( He is one of the top cult leaders of the fellowship) I married his daughter, She had affairs with top leaders in my church, our fellowship and CFM covered it up.

So lets get to brass tacks, again are you afraid if you identify yourself, maybe some of your former slaves ( disciples) followers of your church may tell some stories about your particular brand of leadership?

I will sign and Identify myself,

Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor of Praise Chapel

Now cmon, you know that aint true Greg, Mike never took a strong stance against anything, that was some of the problems in the beginning of the fellowship.

You call covering up affairs, lying about it, scheming with mitchell was taking a strong stance. As far as PC being different than potters house, there really is no difference. We may not call Donna an apostle, but the same control mechanisms are still in place. And as for everyone else who seems to support PC and puts down people here for telling the truth, This problem is not just in one or a few churches, it runs deep through the whole.

As for y'all loving and reedeming men like you are all saying, lets talk about David Riggs and Mike Stephens, just as two examples, I could name many more ok.

So lets stop the foolishness here and tell the truth, as the old PC fellowship joke goes, you know where liers go, Praise Chapel.

Jeff Watkins

Preacherman,

Wow, the indoctrination just never stops, does it, how about a treaty? I dont think so, The fellowship you swear by and too, has abused and made emotional and spiritual casualities out of most people posting on this site.

You dont have to sell me on the fellowship, I pastored 12 years in the fellowship, which leader put you up to carrying the sword for the fellowship?

Y'all keep saying you are only defending what you love, do you love abuse, carelessness for others, and inability to find the truth with both hands and a flashlight. I thought being a christian was loving Christ and not some fellowship, but hey sheep just follow and go baah,

You realize we have all heard your guys lines before, and shame on us, if we buy into this dangerous type of churches again.

Jeff Watkins

Nawdew,

One line in your post really caught my attention and honestly made me shiver, you said " we were allowed to have fun". Who allowed you to have fun, sounds like your pastor did, am I right?

Since when, do pastors have the right to allow or disallow anything, they are not God my friend, no where near to being God. In the church I was raised up in, Praise Chapel Kingman Arizona, we also were allowed or disallowed things too, this is cultish, there aint no skirtiing around this, CULTISH.

For example: Praise Chapel Kingman:

1. We had to get our pastors permission to buy a new car
2. We had to get our pastors permission to go on vacation
3. We had to get our pastors permission before we made any decisions
4. We were not allowed T.V. Sets in our homes if we were in leadership
5. We had to go to mandatory, let me say this again, mandatory prayer
6. We had to be in every service
7.We were not allowed to question headship or church authority
8. The fellowship was right on track with God, everyone else was wrong or "luked out"
9. Marriages were arranged or lets say encouraged by the pastors
10. Swift punishment followed any perceived, let me say that again " perceived" rebellousness or resistance to teaching and authority
11.Teachers of the gospel were lukewarm panseys, according to praise chapel leadership

These are a few examples, I could spend years telling you what my pastor allowed or disallowed. Run, Run, Run, your in a cult!

Nawdew,

You attended Carl Friedrich' church right?

Let me tell you about carl, he was my discipler in the kingman church, he was involved in the fellowship cover up of my ex wife's affairs, his best friend in the kingman church was one of the first people who slept with my wife, I went on to be punished by the fellowship by trying to bring this issue to light, while the adulterer went on to be promoted, exhaulted and groomed by the fellowship. I confronted carl with the fact he took part in this, he denied it of course, which is the M.O. of praise chapel pastors. By the way the guy my ex wife first slept with, slept with lots of other married women in our church, my pastor knew this, and planted him anyhow, inflicting him on the world and the church. This is how praise chapel deals with issues, they ignore, if you comply and punish, if you try to bring issues to light.

Secondly, we are talking about him opening the books, why dont you go ask him about going through darren billings personal check book, darren was a man carl planted and sent out. After darren fell from grace, there was no praise chapel there to help him recover, they just backed the praise chapel we gotta go bus over him a few times. "Out of sight, Out of mind", The fellowship loves this principle, and practices it on a daily basis.

As a matter of fact, the last position I pastored in praise chapel was as an assistant pastor, when the senior pastor was doing questionable things with the churches money, I was called into a private meeting with him and some of his pastors buddy and told to repent for even questioning about the abuse and theft of church money, Larry Nevelle promptly pulled my ordination and I was out the door. There is no honor or honesty among thieves.

Dont tell how honest these guys are, I know most of the old guard personally, like I said, I pastored 12 years in this jacked up thing they call praise chapel. THERE ARE NO OPEN BOOKS IN PC

Jeff Watkins

In the past I had searched the web for Larry Neville and found his personal webpage - illustrating who he is and what he is about. Under the "Most Influential Men In My Life" he listed Wayman Mitchell as No. 2. I just checked it again and its still there.

I find it interesting that on other websites he states how PCCF separated from Potter's House/CFM; yet Wayman Mitchell is still his No. 2 most influential right after his dad. In my opinion, this speaks volumes. Either he forgot about this webpage or he never considered what Wayman Mitchell has been accused of from countless others or he is clueless about now people perceive WM. All of which smacks of either ignorance or arrogance or both.