riosilk,

What is the group stance on those who did leave, if Bob was their 'right pastor'.

Will God chastise them for leaving? will God even perhaps kill them for leaving?

and do you keep in touch with any persons who have left?


thankyou.

Wow! It's great to find this forum. I was born into the Thieme Park in it's early years...back in the 50's.

What a number this church did on my mind and soul!!! I've been out of it for a long while now, but I still suffer from its effects. Been through therapy with a great Christian Psychologist who researched Thieme's ministry and concluded that it was certainly "cultish".

Most of my family still participates, so I keep very quiet about how dreadfully evil I feel Thieme's teachings are...and now, of course, the teachings of all his many, many followers who have taken up pastorship of churches. It's a cancer.

I'm a Christian, in spite of Bob Thieme.

That's all I can really say right now. I want to say more, but I'm afraid to reveal my identity by saying too much. Is that crazy or what? But for real, I'm afraid a relative or family friend that still belongs to that cult will identify me and rat me out to my family. I still love my family and I don't want to lose their favor. I am certain that I would fall out of favor with them if they learned how I feel about Thieme's teachings.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm not so HappyAndFree after all.

Dear Happy and Free,

I certainly understand your reluctance in revealing your identity. When I first started to investigate Thieme on the Internet and found some courageous testimonies of those who had left, no matter what the consequences, I was greatly encouraged in my faith in the Word of God and in my instincts to HOLD THE TEACHER RESPONSIBLE for the effects of his teaching on his audience.

I well remember my fear when first asked to testify about my experiences as a long time taper. I had some of the same fears you mention, but I had no family members who were interested in Thieme's teaching for themselves. I had thought I was already free from bondage to Thieme's errors, but there was still a lot I had not dealt with. I never had an opportunity to work through all the "stuff" with a therapist who was also a Christian.

The Word of God can deliver you from this fear by revealing to you errors still in your mind. It is a matter of allowing the Spirit to teach you what the Word of God means in addition to what it says. For me personally this means reading the best English translation, the King James Bible. There's LOTS of sensible evidence out there about the venerable KJB and why it is best. And NONE OF IT was taught by RBThieme simply because he, like most others at Dallas Theological Seminary, believed what he was taught by them without questioning it.

But the main thing is to identify errors in your mind from the thiemepark or anywhere else and allow God to lead you to the truth which will set you free.. Do you read the Bible on a regular basis now? It took me YEARS to be able to just pick up my Bible AND READ without any sense of guilt or condemnation left over from RBT Jr.

Perhaps you could continue to post here and see what replies others may offer.

Having someone else who knows what you are talking about is so encouraging. I am thankful for contacts over the last few years with those who have left Thieme's teaching and survived and thrived. One of the big things missing in thiemepark family groups and in taper groups and Thiemeite churches in my opinion is LOVE. There is lots of talk about "GRACE" but the practice is very legalistic and there is no explanation of or dealing with the FLESH in daily life. So flesh runs wild with predictably miserable consequences.

One of the most freeing truths for me was when I finally realized that REBOUND as such DOES NOT WORK. One reason it does not work is that WE ARE TOTALLY FORGIVEN OF ALL OUR SINS AT SALVATION, and confession FOR FORGIVENESS is for unbelievers. IN THE FELLOWSHIP is SALVATION, and OUT OF FELLOWSHIP IS LOST. That one truth was only part of the FINALITY OF THE CROSS which the Spirit taught me. Sin is no longer the main issue in the life of a born again Christian. Sins have been dealt with finally and forever judged on the Cross and have been purged BY HIM ALONE THERE, not by our confessions. Until we accept the FINALITY OF THE CROSS, we cannot experience the REALITY OF THE RESURRECTION. That truth was a huge gap in the thiemepark.

In my experience of Thieme's teachings, this fixation on "rebound" was a great obstacle in daily life. His teaching of REBOUND kept me in bondage to SIN AND MY EYES ON SELF ALL THE TIME, instead of being focused on CHRIST and on His life in me. I learned that our total forgiveness comes with CHRIST HIMSELF as He lives in us after the new birth. HIS LOVE, GRACE AND ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS of the 'ESSENCE BOX" as taught by Thieme COME WITH HIM at salvation, they are not character qualities we develop and exercise as a result of "TAKING IN" more and more tapes by Thieme. Thieme's way is BONDAGE. Christ Himself in us IS LIBERATION unto service and bearing fruit in the body of Christ here on earth.

Does this speak to your dilemma?

In Christ alone,
Lucida

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sistersoap:

Please keep in mind the preaching rule regarding the message board. I know you mean well, but try to not quote scripture too much and offer relgious advice.

Anyone interested in studying the bible can pick up a study bible. Such editions typically have footnotes that explain each verse.

Fuller Theological Seminary, Moody and relgious studies programs at Universities like Princeton, Uhiverstiy of Chicago and UCLA also have resources.

For those struggling with recovery there are also additional resources.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Note [www.culteducation.com]

This is a listing of professinal counselors that offer recovery related services.

Wellspring Retreat, is a rehab facility that specifically provides recovery care for former members of high demand groups. The staff are evangelical Christians.

sistersoap, thanks for your reply...and rrmoderator, thanks for yours.

I study from the NIV and use a Strong's concordance. Also, I worship at a local denominational church, and I've done so for the past 25 years. I've been out of Berhachah for a good long while now. I also enjoy watching Joyce Meyer and Creflo Dollar on TV. But I let the Holy Spirit guide me; I don't blindly accept everything I hear from anyone. I don't think anyone has it 100%, nor do I think that's even possible--this side of heaven. I often wonder if, when Jesus returns, what the first words out of his mouth will be. Maybe "No people, that's not what I meant". Or "How did I leave you with THAT impression??"

And yes, after leaving Berachah, I did feel guilty about reading the bible on my own. Listening to other pastors was difficult too. Because of Thieme's teachings on Right Pastor, I felt a lot of guilt, even though I was pretty sure Thieme wasn't my "right pastor". And I entered churches with an attitude that I knew more than I actually did. I thought that most of what he taught had been theologically sound. It took years to sort things out.

Those early years were the most difficult. But I'm still surprised at the lingering effects. Having been born into a family of Thieme followers, some stuff is deeply ingrained.

I've thought about "why" I left. What was happening inside of me to bring me out of that place? I remember hearing things in bible class that I simply couldn't swallow. But I'd go home and pray and pray for God to help me believe those things. I didn't want to build up "scar-tissue" on my soul. God never helped me believe those things. I now recognize that as the Holy Spirit working in me.

The biggest difficulty now is having the majority of my family still active in Berachah. They (and all their friends) are hardcore bible-doctrine people. They know I go to another church (not one of the Berachah off-shoots), and they tolerate that well (at least to my face). But there is no way I can reveal my true thoughts about Thieme's teachings and maintain any kind of relationship with my family. They talk about their beliefs openly at family gatherings...political, spiritual, personal...and I just have to listen. I find much of what they say very offensive. But I learned to keep a poker face in bible class, so I manage ok. Sometimes I wish I were courageous enough to open up about it. But nothing I say will change what they believe, and nothing they say will change what I believe. So what's the point? They've made thier choice and I've made mine.

God loves me and therefore I am HappyAndFree

Your testimony is typical of many who have left the thiemepark. It is sad but true that families who are faithful to Thieme having a family member who leaves are very intolerant of that person, so I completely understand your reluctance. Poker face is exactly what is required to survive!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts....It sounds as if you are indeed happy and free.[/size:d5354bd61b]

Sistersoap,

Yep. And your earlier comment about not seeing much "Love" in Thieme followers is something I've noticed too. There seems to be a lot of criticism of any good works. Anything helpful or benevolent is seen as "works of the flesh". That disturbs me a lot. Call me a bleeding-heart-liberal (that's what they call people like me anyway), but I consider benevolence toward others a primary part of my spiritual life. I try to keep things simple in my life. When things get too complex (as they often do as a result of my background), I remind myself that what I need to focus on is: "Love God and love others".

But residual effects of Thieme's teachings can haunt us. When things are going really bad, I can't help but wonder, deep in my subconscience, just maybe, if I'm being punished for leaving Berachah. I mean, the teachings on reversionism and the sin-unto-death are pretty frightening. I grew up being taught these things. Such early infulences don't simply disappear from our thinking.

Then I put myself back in that place again, when I tried to believe all that stuff wholeheartedly. I remember how people following Thieme (including myself at the time) would attribute anything bad that happened to THEM as testing. But bad stuff happening to a non-Thieme follower was usually seen as divine discipline.

So I just pray about these fears. God knows that I want to please Him. If He led me to go back to Berachah, I'd go. But He hasn't led me back there yet!

I was introduced to Col. Thieme's tapes in 1976 and moved to Houston in 1978 specifically to attend the church. I effectively cut my ties with Berachah in 1991. However, if you had told me I would EVER leave Berachah in the 1980s, I would have emphatically denied it.

I agree it's a cult, but you'd have the qualify that by saying it's more of a cult of being unbalanced that wrong. Yes, there are some wrong/heretical doctrines and views taught there, but for the most part the beliefs reflect those of conversative evangelical Christianity (with their views on abortion being a notable exception).

A close friend who has never heard the Colonel speak but knows of my former involvement there has noted that although there were definitely negative aspects, I did learn a lot about the Bible during my time there. I could go on and on with Berachah stories (I also worked for their tape ministry), but I could summarize things by relating a story. A friend's young daughter was asked to compare Berachah's "Prep School" to Sunday school at another church. She said, "Well, at Berachah we learned about doctrine, and at the other church we learned about Jesus."

Although I vehemently disagree with the Colonel, my heart goes out to him during his declining years with Alzheimer's.

Mike W.

Mike,

I have sent you a p.m.

I became a Thieme taper four days after I accepted Christ in 1970. After high school graduation I moved 1000 miles to attend college in Houston so I could now attend class "face to face". In additon to the eight bible classes a week at Berachah I continued to listen to tapes too.

After marriage in 1979 I moved from Houston and became a taper again until 2004. In 2004 I met some people whom I thought were starting a non-denominational church in my neighborhood and decided to attend one Sunday. I soon realized that it was really a conservative Baptist Church but I immediately found that not only was the sermon doctrinally sound but I now had a place to put my spiritual gift to use. When you are taping and not "Assembling Yourselves Together", it is very difficult to be of Christian service to anyone.

I feel so incredibly free now. I can finally pick up my Bible know that I can get something out of it without having to have a Pastor-Teacher explain everything to me.

I listen to other teachers (especially Hank Lindstrom, Charles Stanley and David Jeremiah) on the internet and find that I have learned a lot from them even though they rarely teach in-depth or exegetically.

I still struggle from time to time with guilt from having separated from Thieme but I know without a doubt that I did the right thing.

Debbie