There are many groups that say, "I'll always stick with the what the bible says above all else."

And each group has its own version of "what the bible says."

Of course they deny this and instead insist it's not their version or interpretation only "what the bible says."

Cult members are often unable to seperate their leader's teachings and opinions from the bible. This can be seen as a facet of "brainwashing."

Please understand that posting on a message board means that your remarks can be viewed by anyone. It's a public forum and posts are often responded to.

Sorry if you don't like that.

Christianity is not considered a "cult," unless you are including groups that claim to be simply "Christian," but are actually led and defined by absolute living leaders like Jim Jones, David Koresh etc.

See [www.culteducation.com]

There is a distinct differance between "brainwashing" and religious indoctrination. Thought reform or "brainwashing" is a specific form of coercive persuassion that difers from other forms of persuassion such as education, advertising, propaganda etc.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

Again, claiming all "Christians" would somehow be considered a "cult" and all Christian believers "brainwashed" is another apology typically used by cults and cult members attempting to dismiss criticism.

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Hello! This is my first post on this forum. I am looking forward to the conversation.

I was a faithful follower of Thieme for almost thirty years. I am free now, and love it.

Thieme took a few good ideas and ran off a cliff with them, running his church as if it were his platoon.....Not biblical in my estimation.

His use of the overhead projector was original when he began. Using scriptural languages is often good, BUT HE FORGOT TO MENTION which TEXT he used. I assume he used the one advocated by his alma mater, the Dallas Theological Seminary, which is the modern, Westctt-Hort, or UBS or Nestle/Aland text, all the same essentially.

This is now my primary problem with his ministry, since there is much more to the textual criticism Thieme used than he ever told us, and it is not good, either.

Quote
ephesians1:3

.... Paul was persecuted severely of Satan. The New Testament is rife with this. Paul was a tremendous man of God, obviously. I'm following a syllogism that would go something like:

If Paul was a great man of God, and Satan persecutes great men of God, then it follows that if Thieme can be considered likewise, Satanic persecution of Thieme is understandable.

Please understand, I'm not saying that [i:29eabe791a]ALL[/i:29eabe791a] criticism of Thieme should be understood as Satanic, or from the source of Satan. I didn't mean to give that impression.

Again, various cults may or may not use this defense when their sect is attacked. I can't speak for them.

One thing that you should be very clear about is that Paul was his own worst enemy and he admitted it freely. If you follow the teachings of Scripture, you know that every human has the capacity to do wrong without the agency of some supernatural embodiment of evil.

If I have an issue with Thiemes teachings, it is probably the same one that I have with the majority of mainstream Christianity and that is that people adhere to the words of the Bible without adhering to the spirit of the Bible. Put simply; when Jesus told his disciples to feed his sheep, he meant it in a very literal sense. It often appears to me that mainstream Christianity has more to do with the writings of Adam Smith than it does with the teachings of Christ.

Take a look at James Chapter 2 beginning at verse 14 and ending at verse 20. What is spoken of there is very literal in the sense of what works are and by way of example...Jesus first fed the 5000 and then taught them. It is not enough to spend hours teaching God's Word and then do nothing to alleviate the suffering around us.

Wow, so are all of the ex-Thieme types here still christians? Considering that I follow a floating wad of pasta as my One True God [tm] and don pirate garb as a sacrement (RAmen), feel free to throw "apostate", "ye who shall die the sin unto death", or the tried and true "loser believer" my way as I continue to rock the 8th stage of reversionism like Jerry Falwell on a trampoline.

Anyhoo, my parents were Thieme tapers since before I was born, so I became intimately familiar with the ways of Beracha Church, or "Thiemetopia" if you will. Thiemetopia is a bright, shiny place where "The Colonel" is never wrong, dispensationalism is mixed with arcane 19th Century psychology and American militarism, and it all produces a series of charts, outlines, platitudes, and arcane terminology about "spiritual growth" in the "divine dynosphere" so that we the "pivot" can maintain "client nation USA" in the "church age" - all of which makes L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics look sensible.

Long story short, I started going to college, kept listening to tapes, but it wasn't those evil liberal professors that "got me off doctrine". Nope, thank the screen right in front of you, the Internet, for exposing me to other worldviews, most of which are laughter-inducing tirades by self-proclaimed experts, but which did the trick nonetheless of kicking Thieme and, later on, christianity off the pedestal. It's a shame that Mr. Rev. Colonel had bad-mouthed sociology at one point, since that dissuaded me from persuing a degree in that field, and now I wish I had one. *sigh* No matter; I do enough in the way of that sort of work now anyway.

When it comes to any type of teaching, I try to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In Thiemes case, there is a lot of bathwater to dispose of and the baby is hard to find sometimes.

Consider finding a church somewhere where you can have fellowship with others and participating in some [i:753ce0be50]healthy[/i:753ce0be50] Christian activities. Maybe something like working a homeless shelter would be to your liking...

I had recently been thinking back on my "Thieme" days and did a Goggle search - finding this website. I can only speak for myself but I wish I had never heard of him or his church. It took me more than 20 years to learn God loves me even if I don't agree with Thieme. I am now a happy Episcopalian.

Hi Linda,

Thankyou for replying.

I have sent you a pm.

What made you decide to attend this church in the first place, and what were the reasons that made you decide to leave?
Have you experienced any shunning by those inside, since you left?

Hit the Previe button and my response flew away. Will submit it again but if it is a second posting just junk it. Thank Goodness for Word. Thanks

I became interested when a friend moved to Houston and started attending the church there. Having become dissatisfied with the book review type messages in my Methodist Church and feeling my spiritual growth was stagnate; I "fell" into what I thought was my answer for happiness. Tapes became a regular part of my life for the next 12 years with frequent trips to Houston. My ex-husband and I also attended a group in OKC, which evolved into a church loosely affiliated with the Huston church. I was amazed to learn the pastor we helped choose, was still there 30 years on.

Then came the turning point - we moved to a small town outside OKC. The church was an hour or more away, so we stopped attending and although I cannot remember why, our reel-to-reel tape recorder was not working for several months. I just stopped caring about listening. Then came years of guilt for not listening and for not wanting to listen. I was divorced and tried several churches on my own - none of which seemed to fill the void.

I was still close to my friend in Houston although she was always distraught that I had stopped listening to tapes and we had big disagreements on evolution after I visited the Galapagos Islands. The last time I spoke with her in 1996 I mentioned I had voted for Bill Clinton - her remark? "I can't believe a friend of mine would vote for someone who would have you killed" - and hung up on me. Although I was sad our friendship was over, God pushed me gently through this period. I think He knew it was extremely important for me to distance myself from old behavior patterns.

I remarried 13 years ago. My husband have been attending an Episcopal church, for several years and often-visit England where we attend Anglican churches. The Episcopal Church encourages their members to attend church service daily if possible; study the Bible on a daily basis; (with the various translations available today - many from the original languages - I do not find it a difficult task); and encourage members to take these Biblical principles into the world. Many of the things I feel God calls me to do - Theim would have called “bleeding heart”. I happen to think Jesus was the best example of a bleeding heart the world will ever know! These principles bring peace in my life that I never had when I was at odds with almost everyone and everything.

I am still struggling, but am learning not to correct every thought someone expresses that does not coincide with my beliefs. Looking back, perhaps this thinking, which I have had since a child made me a very good candidate for Theim's teachings.

I will add this postscript - I wish I had been a bit more discerning before falling into the trap.

Thanks Linda.
Do you think that your friend was distraught on hearing that you weren't listening any longer, because of the 'divine discipline' thing? i.e. stopping listening and discipline from God?

Well, that's an interesting question and one I had not thought of before. It would be pure conjecture at this point but I think she was so deep into what was being taught that anyone doing something contrary to the teachings would need to be told what they were doing was wrong. If that makes any sense.

Her husband asked for a divorce (of course he was in revisionism at the time - is there really such a word?) with a very nice settlement (for Texas) but she refused for 5 or 6 years all because "he promised to love me forever" and in the end he still divorced her and she got very little. Then there was that odd statement about Clinton. Heaven knows he was no saint but to think he was going to kill "me"? - that is weird! I could continue with several more off-the-wall things but will spare you.

I just think taking in all that "stuff", especially in large doses does something bad to your head!

I reread a post this morning saying Bobbie told everyone they were free to leave and find another pastor if he were not right for them. My concern is, I don't think they are free and they don't know it. I look back and know it was by the Grace of God I was finally able to rid my mind of all that junk. Admittedly, I still have flash back sentences, such as the Devil’s Ace Trump, but they are few and far between and I can laugh at myself when I say them. Sometimes when I say one of these things my husband looks at me with a big question mark on his face.

I hope some of the things I have written will be a help to someone out there because three psychologists and one psychiatrist never understood what I was talking about. A fourth psychologist in Dallas knew Theime and told me Theime was a control freak - nice to hear but the junk was still in my mind and he seemed to have no suggestions on how to help me get rid of it.