Hello Spiritual Liberty,
I have prayed about my response and realize that it was premature. Through the filling of the Spirit and my fellowship with God, he has instructed me to address these fallible doctrines you tout. I have serious doubts about your objectivity but it is God's will that even the fallen be evangelized. This is not only for you but also for readers that will no doubt find this website.
I consider myself rebuked. On to the doctrine!
You state that you have studied for years under Pastor Robert McLaughlin however; your inaccurate understandings that you have professed would have been corrected if you had been paying attention during those daily lessons.
He has stated for years to metabolize then apply the doctrines you have learned. You have failed to do so. I will address only rebound in my post but the background doctrines you are missing are listed below. This doctrine will be far easier to understand and metabolize if you study these doctrines closely. All scripture builds on scripture.
Below I will list many doctrines that will give any future reader and yourself a great background to understanding systematic theology.
God will conceal doctrines and truth from those he considers swine (Matthew 7:6). He does not give truth, power and understanding to those who would trample these teachings.
Thus God either conceals or reveals depending on whether one is open (subjective or objective) to hearing what the Bible teaches. (Mark 4:9-12, Luke 8:9-10, Matt 13-9-15, Isaiah 6-9-10, Numbers 12:6-8, Deut 4-11) We must discern the truth with study. (Proverbs 8:17)
I do not study directly under Thieme as I have stated before, but all of Thieme’s doctrinal teachings that I have studied has proven true with in depth study of the scriptural backing. I study many doctrinal viewpoints from many different teachers (have studied and will continue to study) and search diligently to discern the truth of a teaching.
Realize, I was not opening a dialog with you for your opinion. Merely giving you the scriptural background on the doctrines you questioned from Thieme. Your rebuttal was lacking in the objective study of those theological principles and the application of those principles in real circumstances. So, again, I have posted these doctrines below for your objective study:
Doctrine of Throne of Judgment:
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Doctrine of Eternal Security and Salvation.
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Doctrine of Experiential, Positional and Ultimate sanctification:
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Doctrine of Reversionism:
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I prefer to refrain from stating opinion as that just bogs down a study with useless chatter. I prefer to exegete, contextually discern and then render a scriptural accurate accounting of a biblical principle. That should be all that need be relayed. Anything else will again slow down a study. I only have 30-40 years left on earth!
[b:9df6fcef9a]Biblical Bridging / “magical bridge”[/b:9df6fcef9a]
Briefly I will describe how Mechanical Truth gives a systematic result.
If one verse in the Bible states that God is a Just God then the entirety of the Bible must be viewed in that one Function/Essence of God. If Paul in Romans 1:1 states that he has been set apart for the Gospel of God we know that this experiential circumstance (systematic result) has met with the function of the Just God (Mechanical Truth). Understanding this allows you to know how verses correlate throughout the Bible.
Under this principal, if we know that the Hebrews Chapters 5-10, 2Peter 2:4-9, (to name the most obvious ones), states we are under a new royal priesthood (Mechanical Truth) we must then come to understand the result of that truth and how to function in that truth. Rebound is only one portion of that systematic result.
[b:9df6fcef9a]Understanding context.[/b:9df6fcef9a]
This link is great. Chapter VII gives a great understanding of the Darkness as it is used in the bible. Darkness refers to lack of understanding and anti-doctrine rather than salvation or damnation. [
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Though I do realize by default, that if you lack in salvation you are in the darkness.
1 Thessalonians Chapter 5: 1-11 really clearly states that he is warning the “Brethren” (fellow believers) to stay out of the darkness and not fall asleep. You need to put on the breastplate of Faith (study of doctrine, remember Faith is not believing in something we do not understand but that which we have studied and come to know) to stay sober and alert; the opposition force of sleeping/darkness in the previous verse of chapter 5.
Context of 1John Chapter 1 – This is entirely to the church. The context is fellowship of the believer with God. This is not speaking to those who lack salvation. A person who is not saved is not going to concern himself/herself with maintaining fellowship with God. 1John 1:6 states a person says he has fellowship. An unbeliever is not going to care one iota about whether in fellowship or not.
Conversely, 1 John 2 states “My little Children” certainly not unbelievers are his students? Then proceeds to state that he hopes they will not sin but when they do they have an advocate in Christ before the father!
Clearly more study is needed by you to discern the context of 1John and to whom John is speaking.
Context of Ephesians 5 is avoiding the operation of the sin nature and fulfilling God’s will. The “magical bridge” is scriptural understanding. Ephesians 5 tells us how we grieve the spirit. 1John Chapter 1 tells us how to regain that fellowship.
1John Chapter 1 is the extension of understanding that God desires fellowship with us. That is why he created us. Your “magical bridge” is rather a highway with many on and off ramps. This is a powerful understanding. All the bible correlates when you understand what each apostle is teaching based on what he learned from Jesus Christ. The epistles are an expansion of their understanding with the ministry of the Holy Spirit. They learned it all while studying under Jesus Christ.
[b:9df6fcef9a]Doctrine of rebound and maintaining fellowship[/b:9df6fcef9a]
This is a more in depth follow up to address some of the inaccurate understandings you have.
Lets look at Old Testament confession of sin.
The Levitical priesthood in the Old Testament was a habitual and continual confession of sin. Leviticus 5:6-10
Now when you sinned you needed to go see a Priest and present the sin offering for your sin and then the Priest would make atonement for you. Why was this not done once? Why every-time they visited the priest? The answer is Hebrews 10:1-3
At this point your belief would come in that now we have the “Completed work of the Cross” This is not an inaccurate doctrine. We were completely forgiven for our sins. True! We will never be judged for those sins. True! The confession of sins does not in anyway affect our salvation. True! We will only be judged for our works/deeds at the judgement. Not sins. Only one sin, that is unbelief, can stop you from entering heaven.
That is positional truth!
To further explain this; we were positionally forgiven our sins at salvation, we are experientially forgiven our sins as we confess them inside the function of our Royal Priesthood/Universal Priesthood, and we are ultimately forgiven all sins in the eternal state.
However, your sins must be continuously recognized by you, you must be experientially sanctified and you must be cleansed from those sins. I point back to the “foot washing”.
As an aside to address positional sanctification (John 13:14-15). We are to deal with all others on the basis of their position in Christ. Not according to the sins they have or are committing. When we do this we understand that Jesus has washed their feet and they are now positionally cleansed from their sins. Though this is not in their realm of experience (Experiential) in that they are currently operating in their sins. God has positionally forgiven them for all their sins and evil at the cross. It is done. Complete. We are to operate in that forgiveness when we deal with all others. Never should be deal with others according to their sins.
Now at this point you must study the doctrine of Royal Priesthood/Universal Priesthood in the New Testament.
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The Priesthood of the Levites has changed. God is the High Priest of the Royal Priesthood. We are now Royal Priests as taught by Peter. (1Peter 2:4-12)
We directly represent ourselves before God. (Hebrews 10:19)
Hebrews gives a great understanding here of the consistent practice of the Old Testament and the reason for the Old Testament sacrifice for sins. He also explains the reason for the cessation of the sacrifice and the new living way we should operate in our priesthood.
[b:9df6fcef9a]Hebrews Chapter 10 Breakdown[/b:9df6fcef9a]
(Hebrews 10:1-3.) The writer explains that the confession of sins was a continual reminder and that confession was for the perfection/maturity of the worshiper. It was the constant reminder. This was but a shadow of the things to come. Though we have given up the sacrifice. The constant confession would persist for the perfection of the believer.
Again here is your “magical bridge” or as I prefer a highway.
The writer understood in 10:4 that though the confession was the reminder, the actual sacrifice did nothing to forgive sins. It was only a shadow of the good to come.
Hebrews 10:5-9 is a quotation of the new covenant and 10:9 states that the Old has been done away with and the New has been established. The Levitical has ended but the Universal has begun. There is a new mode of operation. Which will involve spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)
10:10 we are now Positionally sanctified. Again study positional vs. experiential.
10:11 Despite the Levites continuing in their office it does nothing for the “Church age believer”. Though realize this was a daily function they performed.
10:12 The work of the Cross is complete and Jesus has taken his seat. Not to be
Re-sacrificed again.
10:13 He is now waiting for the “tactical victory” as he has completed the “strategic victory” in verse 12.
10:14 States that all the sanctified believers are perfected/mature for all time. Now we realize this is positional not experiential. This is clearly relayed in that we did not know as much about the bible yesterday as we do today. We will continue to grow to perfection. That is experiential sanctification. But positionally we are perfected; we can never lose that position that Christ has secured for us.
10:15-16 shows that we will be able to accomplish the law in a way that no Old Testament believer ever will. We now have the power in the new covenant to accomplish the Law. This is what the Holy Spirit will do for us. The will of the Father, the Gospel of Jesus, the filling of the Holy Spirit.
10:17 God will not deal with you according to your sins. No one is dealt with, as they deserve. We do not need to make a payment. After all, if we paid the debt it would be eternal damnation. If we are operating in the flesh by experience we will not be punished for those sins but we will be “corrected” by God if we neglect our fellowship with him. It is not necessarily direct punishment from him. He has written natural laws to govern this.
(Galatians 6:7-8, Proverbs 1:31, Job 4:8)
10:18 No longer is an offering needed now that forgiveness for the sins we commit is complete.
10:19 Notice Brothers and sisters. This is to believers! We can operate as the High Priest did. We have the ability to enter the Holy of Holies by the Blood of Jesus Christ. Not for sacrifice but for fellowship!
10:20 this verse states in a new and living way. This is the “rebound” which is discussed. We have a new way to have fellowship with the Shakinah glory that dwells inside of us. (That is where God resided in the Holy of Holies.) We can now approach God in this new and living way. This is stated in the present tense and should be a continual action. This is the disclosed description from God. The curtain that is still in front of the Jews is open to us. Hebrews is tying into the understanding of the “Mechanical Truth” of our Royal Priesthood. He is describing why and how by the “Systematic Result”.
10:21 Jesus is now over the House of God. This is an allusion to all the writer has stated about the Order of Melchizedek in the previous chapters.
10:22 here is the expansion on the point. We can be assured with a sincere heart to have that fellowship (entering the Holy of Holies) BECAUSE we have had our minds (Kardia which is translated Hearts in KJV) sprinkled clean (rebound) from an evil conscience (sin nature/operating in the flesh.) and our bodies are washed clean with pure water (that is salvation). Notice the conjunctive “and” in this verse. There is the sprinkling AND washing. The washing represents salvation and the sprinkling represents rebound. The understanding of the terminology of sprinkling is in the results of the sprinkling. “hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience”. Our minds are renewed/cleansed from that evil. This ties Ephesians with Hebrews, John with Hebrews, and John 1 with Hebrews. That “magical bridge” is the “Mechanical Truth” of doctrine with the “Systematic Results” as described with the understanding of each apostle.
I do realize I Have “dumbed” down years of theological study and a lot of terminology is unfamiliar. I cannot relay years of doctrinal study in just a post on a forum. However, I am hoping that all who read this will increase their devotion to God and study the truth of these doctrines.
God desires you to be Holy (devoted) that devotion has a price of your heart, mind, soul and strength!
(Deut 4:29, Jeremiah 29:13, Mark 12:30, Proverbs 8:17)
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, Watching [b:9df6fcef9a]daily[/b:9df6fcef9a] at my gates, Waiting at the posts of my doors.