Truthtesty,

That was the point of my my post but thank you for finding the words. "Reducing faith to a Science?" Dissection of the The Bible is a way to explore. But building it up, exploration, and mystery....God's majesty in life and reflecting on the text complete in living and our own unique, personal journey with God is boundless. It is the high white note of Handel's Messiah, it is being broken by life and yet joyful, it is a laugh that turns into a cackle, it is a worthy opponent, it is a kiss to snuff an argument, it is reading Psalms and climbing a mountain to camp out under the stars where artificial light does not interfere and staring into His infinity and contemplating ours. Boundless wonderment....

thereporter

Truthtesty,

Quote
thereporter
Orange,

I perfectly warned about my use of metaphor.

But seriously...Listening to Theimites, the Colonel did away with the Choir because they were trying to usurp HIS POWER. And he managed to write songs as well....that as a singer at times I cannot harmonize to in more ways than one. He was a Scientist, Writer, Minister, Relationships Therapist, Composer, Man of Mystery, and The Colonel..."I'm IT" Unfortunately, though confidence is what makes a leader, arrogance is what makes isolation and demogogary. It can be so intimidating to members in the Community that their gifts become truncated. And the "schizoid" blah came racing out of my keyboard after his son made a very moving, reading a personal letter from a member of Berachah who had a great deal of Impersonal love for his wife (the lesson), putting up with her wild episodes for many years as a schizoid, then developing Alzheimer's, going into detail about the different stages of the disease and describing it as a gift.

thereporter

I failed to mention that he went into detail back in the day that Electro Shock therapy was used to treat this mental illness.

When I am on the offensive, I just switched it from a letter from a man regarding his wife but a wife having a great deal of impersonal love for her husband subbing the Colonel bbing that after that class. (sorry. all of us are sinners at times and try to stretch things to try to find an excuse for behavior and sympathy for the wife rarely mentioned..."A nod to Mothers" direct quote was given to her by her son on Mother's day. I bb'd about that too..I am wandering. A million apologies. This is freestyle but I write in many styles. And I am learning a lot from just joining this forum.)

I found it an odd "personal" announcement and letter read as this was the first time I ever witnessed anything as personal, "A personal (underscored personal) letter read to the Congregation.....

It can't be proven Truthtesty.

The Choir, though, according to Theimeites was cut out as "they were trying to usurp the Colonel's power" and instead a huge dry erase board hangs in front of all the seats so that left lobes and right lobes, and insulting diagrams regarding faith, and some good stuff about hebrew/greek words written regarding particular scriptures written....BUT

"Okay you don't have it do you!!!? Epinosis of doctrine enters the left lobe of the brain where it? You don't get it do you!!!!!? You have to be filled with the Holy Spirit and then daily intake of doctrine. You see, epinosis of doctrine enters the left lobe of the brain where it becomes resident in the right lobe? You don't get it do you!!!??? You have so much Scar Tissue On The Sou (big pause for effect)l the Holy Spirit can not enter. Rebound! First you have to metabolize doctrine. Now, the greek transitive verb the Apostle Paul is referring to in Corinthians 13: 1.456789 for 6 days looks like this." This repetition is in every lesson for the most part....And these are the terms the Theimeites present or pridefully recite or lash with... Meanwhile, I am reading the Bible taking notes, reading the footnotes that compromise much of lessons that are less prepared than others but I give him a break...Three times a week. Gave me time to observe others.

Anyways....I can't prove everything but I can report what I gathered, show analysis, and write in many styles. Not just free-style.

I believe the Colonel, the method, the Cult of Personality fed by Cult followers, practices, usurped Jesus Christ's message and that is unacceptable. It's not a rationalization for aggressive writing, using metaphors or spinning to assert but I do what I do.

I am not an alarm clock but I see trends...

thereporter




thereporter

Sistersoap,

-od is a deference paid to Our Creator. It is a practice that many employ which maintains a humility regarding -od by not writing God. As many treat God with such casualness as to disrespect a personal practice which honors Him in spirit. "The fear (respect) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge of the Holy One...

I wear a dancer charm, stretched holding the Star of David like a tambourine and rub it at times as it helps me instantly recall Exodus 15:20, 1 Samuel 18:6, II Samuel 6:14, Psalm 149:3, Psalm 150:4, and Jeremiah 31:4 & 13...Not every word per say but Praise, Dance, and Worship after overcoming obstacles as His wind is at my back. I guess I have lost it because it is a personal ritual or practice based on a promise from God himself and His promise revealed daily. As God does not welch on His promises...

I claim no "specialness" at doing so, to even mutter that, is to be treated the very opposite and have never said it. It is usually what others label in order to do the opposite and beyond the opposite. After all wasn't it jealousy that killed Christ? And God Man having the power to raze the entire lot of Roman Soldiers, Pharisees and Politicos, a mob of jealous imperfection, endured the ultimate travesty of injustice so that no man would ever need endure a Crucifixion. Which, is the ultimate rejection of God. His last words, "It is done." Aramaic translation, "It is Perfect." And, what Christians too often become focused on, stone drunk on the violent Crucifixion rather, than His Resurrection. After all, if that did not happen, NO CHRISTIANITY. It is the Core of the FAITH.

Truthtesty, please correct me if I have overstepped my place. I just find it offensive myself to accuse someone they have "lost it" if indeed this was slurred regarding, writing -od.

"Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." Romans Ch. 14 vrs 13-19

"The faith you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." Romans Ch. 14 vs 22

I can't remember who said it or where I read it but "The future of Christianity is far too fragile to be left in the hands of Christians---especially pros."

thereporter

Truthtesty,

"No brainer"...was in reference to Theimites or Berachah having fascist-like leanings and not being grounded in the message of the Bible. Like you said in your analogy of Paul Revere regarding specific demands for proof. Proof is Proof and then there is what is. I should have been more specific when I said No Brainer.

thereporter

Intresting post Truthseeker. Where do you live, if you don't mind saying?

Truthtesty

Truthseek says:

I prefer not to say where I live on the forum because I have a family member who idolizes Bob Thieme. I am pretty sure that if they saw this forum and identified me from my postings it would be the end of my relationship with them.

The involvement of my family in this church has been the source of a great deal of pain for me. In an earlier posting I mentioned that I spent every night of my life from about 5 years of age to a young woman in this church. My parents also copied Thieme's personality and teaching in their parenting methods. The effect of having Thieme's ideas interwoven into our personalities as we grew up was absolutely devastating to my sibling and myself. It practically destroyed us. Because of some good luck, a great deal of love and loyalty from my partner, and my own hard work I am healthy and happy today but my sibling is still suffering from all this. I grew up learning from Thieme to be intolerant, judgemental, mistrustful of others, unforgiving, and cold. As a child I perpetually had a sick, depressed, frightened feeling. As an adult I discovered the feeling was anger, mistrust and hatred towards other people which I also learned from Thieme's own attitude towards people. As a child I learned from what Thieme did not from what he said. Thieme said he was loving and tolerant but he behaved with intolerance and judgementalism.

Eventually one of my parents committed suicide. This was not caused by their involvement with Berachah. My parent was badly abused as a child and never recovered. However, I could also see the effects of Berachah on my parent. They became more and more intolerant, judgemental, mistrustful of others as they became more involved with the church. This attitude that Thiemites have of intolerance towards anyone not involved in Berachah is very damaging. It leads to isolation, depression, anxiety, and paranoia. If someone starts at Berachah with a damaged personality or if they are forced to go from a small child they can develop serious emotional problems as a result of the barage of negativity coming from the pulpit.

Also, Bob Thieme ridiculed expression of emotion. My parents copied this attitude in their parenting. I was an adult before I recognized that part of the awful feeling I had all of the time was anger. I was unable to identify my own emotions and therefore had no control over my own emotions. This led to all kinds of interpersonal problems as well as an inability control my moods. This was absolute hell. The attitude of intolerance and lack of forgiveness and judgementalism taught by Thieme also resulted in my entire family fighting and eventually being estranged from one another. This is only part of the damage done to myself and my family by my association with Berachah.

I can only hope that telling my story will help just one person who has been damaged by Berachah.

Truthseek

thereporter,

After the Sodini story broke, this forum received quite a spike in hits within a short period.
I had thought to myself that there may have been journalists looking into the Thieme world for the first time.

Little did I realize that a 'reporter' had already been doing the hard yards.

"Once you break down a pen it is no longer a pen."
That just about sums it up for me.

Quote
truthseek
Intresting post Truthseeker. Where do you live, if you don't mind saying?

Truthtesty

Truthseek says:

I prefer not to say where I live on the forum because I have a family member who idolizes Bob Thieme. I am pretty sure that if they saw this forum and identified me from my postings it would be the end of my relationship with them.

The involvement of my family in this church has been the source of a great deal of pain for me. In an earlier posting I mentioned that I spent every night of my life from about 5 years of age to a young woman in this church. My parents also copied Thieme's personality and teaching in their parenting methods. The effect of having Thieme's ideas interwoven into our personalities as we grew up was absolutely devastating to my sibling and myself. It practically destroyed us. Because of some good luck, a great deal of love and loyalty from my partner, and my own hard work I am healthy and happy today but my sibling is still suffering from all this. I grew up learning from Thieme to be intolerant, judgemental, mistrustful of others, unforgiving, and cold. As a child I perpetually had a sick, depressed, frightened feeling. As an adult I discovered the feeling was anger, mistrust and hatred towards other people which I also learned from Thieme's own attitude towards people. As a child I learned from what Thieme did not from what he said. Thieme said he was loving and tolerant but he behaved with intolerance and judgementalism.

Eventually one of my parents committed suicide. This was not caused by their involvement with Berachah. My parent was badly abused as a child and never recovered. However, I could also see the effects of Berachah on my parent. They became more and more intolerant, judgemental, mistrustful of others as they became more involved with the church. This attitude that Thiemites have of intolerance towards anyone not involved in Berachah is very damaging. It leads to isolation, depression, anxiety, and paranoia. If someone starts at Berachah with a damaged personality or if they are forced to go from a small child they can develop serious emotional problems as a result of the barage of negativity coming from the pulpit.

Also, Bob Thieme ridiculed expression of emotion. My parents copied this attitude in their parenting. I was an adult before I recognized that part of the awful feeling I had all of the time was anger. I was unable to identify my own emotions and therefore had no control over my own emotions. This led to all kinds of interpersonal problems as well as an inability control my moods. This was absolute hell. The attitude of intolerance and lack of forgiveness and judgementalism taught by Thieme also resulted in my entire family fighting and eventually being estranged from one another. This is only part of the damage done to myself and my family by my association with Berachah.

I can only hope that telling my story will help just one person who has been damaged by Berachah.

Truthseek

This entire post is an excellent example of what went on with people exposed to Thieme.

Truthseek, Would you explain further on identfying emotions, if you want?

Did you learn to identify your emotions through counseling or did you figure it out on your own?

Thankyou for sharing

Truthtesty

To the Forum:

I think that identifying emotions is a VERY commom problem with nearly every thiemite and usually continues for quite a long time into recovery. It is not a permanent dysfunction IF people work on it. Big IF. Which may not happen because when I escaped Be"reich"ah Thieme had trained inculcated and indoctrinted that counseling was BAD. VERY BAD. Even the "S" word BAD. That being said many of those left in the dry desert of isolation like the Sodinis(and there are probably many people like Sodini who were exposed to Thieme out there left to survive the desert of isolation on their own), who may have crack in their identity will often "pressure cooker explode" in unpreditably ways, probably along the lines of weakness in their identity formation which occurs either pre or during Thieme exposure, before they can get help. Thieme "pressure cooks" most people's faults and weaknesses. One main reason is that Thieme does not allow for the Christian Humanity. Thieme doesn't allow the Christian human to deal with their own humanity, therefore human "problems" grow larger than they should have. A small problem becomes a huge one because ithe problem is left unattended.

AND? When Thieme exposed Sodinis explode? And innocent people were massacred? What was the THIEME clone church response? "He was a wierdo"(paraphrasing). They take no responsibility for the damage they induce and it very dificult to prove they caused the damage because it is internal damage. What would Be"reich"ah say about Sodini preparing for the massacre by reading the "integrity od -od"? They'd say Sodini was a wierdo, and that "Christian Integrity" is a number 1 seller (well if he charged) in christian books.(Paraphrasing)

Truthtesty



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2009 10:44PM by Truthtesty.

To the Forum:

I was interrupted last edit on last post I meant "Integrity of -od", not "Christian Integrity"

Truthtesty

To thereporter:

Intresting background on the history of different
Gnostic movements of Docetism and Cerinthianism.

I still do not see how the message being sent because of the deceptive gnostic movement changes the spiritual dynamic at play in 1 John 2:27 nor my previous post on 1 John 2:27 [forum.culteducation.com] the annointing/unction teaching the Christian "all things". Also note the different "things" and who "authors" them. When the apostle writes "these things" 1 John 2:26(and in 1 John 5:13)(the writings of the Apostle John) "these things" when John writes "these things" it is "houtos", but when the Apostle John clearly speaks of the annointing teaching the Christian it is "all things" it is "pas" in 1 John 2:27. Both houtos and pas are very common but pas is used for "all things" that the annointing teaches, not houtos for "these things" that the Apostle limitedly writes.

1 John 2:26 These things(houtos) I have written, to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing(chrisma) which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things(pas), and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

1 John 2:29 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. If you know He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

I think you are saying that salvation and Christian living were "all things?", but I think that is not a sufficient explanation. I think "all things includes as it says a "live" moment to moment guidance/teaching of the Christian's life.


Truthtesty



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2009 06:01AM by Truthtesty.