I realize that my thoughts were a little scattered--still rather emotional about the whole experience 30 years later!! I can only imagine what a book called Careless Women would say....
I happened to stumble on this site, it has gotten me thinking so much about the past, organized religion in general, the many people's lives Thieme touched in so many negative ways. Very sad that so many young lives were derailed, we all admired and respected RBT and clung to every word and thought. We were all young and vulnerable and looking for something, we took his teaching very seriously. Sometimes, it was more "what would RBT want me to do", rather than "what would God want me to do?" He was definitely the focus, a dynamic leader and teacher.

This may be a little late but I’ll put in my two cents.

Lucky for me I never had to endure Berachah as an adult. I was basically born there. My parents started sometime around the summer of 1967. I was six months old. I quit when I was 18, to the dismay of my parents.

Really all I can tell you is things I experienced as a kid. There was a fair share of violence. At the time it was fun but looking back it was inappropriate behavior for a church. We used to play dodgeball with a tennis ball or baseball while lined up against a wall, not in a circle as we did in school. We had a game we called “British Bulldog”. Kind of like Red Rover but it involved tackling, sometimes in hard dirt or concrete. The interesting thing is that all the games we played seemed to prey on the weaker kids. Because Bob Thieme was into boxing, a lot of the kids took boxing lessons. I didn’t. I remember one fight I had in particular, my dad and two of his friends stood there watching me get beat up while they smoked cigarettes telling me to get up and fight. I was guilty too. I never picked a fight on purpose. My brother, who is two years younger than me, was being bullied by a much larger guy that was a year older than me. I told him to stop. When he didn’t I went and got a stick or something and hit him in the head and told him to fight me.

At the risk of this just going on and on I think I will just make a few highlights.

We were not allowed to go to the Galleria, which was right next door. We were told it was because homosexuals and prostitutes hung out there. If we did get up the nerve to go, Thieme had off duty police guarding the driveway. I personally saw about five different kids “escorted” back from the Galleria.

My friends and I would argue on which branch of the military was the best. We started this around the age of eight.

When my friends and I started noticing girls, there was one girl in particular that everyone was enamored with. One night her father stood up in front of the whole “Prep School” and proclaimed that if any boy wanted his daughter they had to go through him.

My brother and I were not allowed to be Boy Scouts. They were “Holy Rollers”.

We took a family vacation to Arizona to visit a compound that specialized in training shooters of the 0.45 cal. Pistol in urban warfare. The reason being that the Russians were coming.

My maternal Grandmother told me after the fact that she confronted my mom about how scared she was for our whole family being a part of Berachah. It wasn’t until after my parents quit that she spoke with her mother. That was about a 10 year time span.

Bob Thieme did not perform marriages or funerals. I wonder about that sometimes. He didn’t marry his own son. My best friend drowned when I was around five or six. He couldn’t bury a child of his church? That’s odd.

I have a lot more examples of the goings on at Berachah. If you want to know more please let me know and I can let you in on a lot of things.

I would kind of like to hit on a few high points of what Berachah has done to me.

First and foremost I have been diagnosed Bipolar. Yes I know that this disease can and is probably genetic. I cannot help but think that if I was allowed to be a normal child in a normal family it wouldn’t be as bad as it is now.

My brother and I both have trouble making friends. We are very cautious when it comes to opening up to people. We are also very untrusting. If someone wants to be my friend it’s because they want something. Because we were in church five days a week, twice on Sunday, we never got to interact with people that were different. All of our friends were in the church.

I hate organized religion. They are all liars and hypocrites. I have my days when I don’t even believe in God. Since my mother died I have cursed him frequently. When my depression kicks in I dare him to kill me. I know he won’t because God doesn’t care.

I seem to have an attraction to the occult. Not enough to worship any so called devil, just enough to have some demon and devil tattoos. I go for the shock value. Same with my music. Name a 42 year old that still listens to Slayer, Slip Knot, or other hard rock bands. I love the imagery and violence of the music.

Same with my fascination with serial killers. I don’t think it’s because I am or want to be one. I think it’s because of the control serial killers have over the victim. Much like the control Thieme had over his followers.

I don’t know everyway that Thieme has messed me up. I’ve been to a number of therapists and they have all heard of the church or Thieme in some form, not in a good way.

If you may know of any groups for survivors in Houston let me know…

Your message brought about many old memories. I had forgotten about Gary Horton and the Rangers. I come from a military family, so that aspect of RBT didn't bother me, but it was a bit overboard there. My "Berachah right man" was one of the military in crowd guys. He was always with "the guys." There was a group of them that got together almost every afternoon, I don't know to this day what they did, and of course I was not supposed to know anything and certainly didn't ask. But some spy work on my part revealed the location of the afternoon get togethers. The marriage and what it revealed about the teachings were the beginning of the end of Berachah for me. I can see how many people must have felt driven to end their lives, especially women. Intelligent women had no place at Berachah.
So sad to think that we were all so hateful and closeminded toward other people and their ideas. He was racist and I fell right into that thinking along with him. It takes years to turn into an openminded loving person after being in Berachah for so many years. I was the only person in my family who attended and later found out they were all extremely worried about me. My husband at the time, did not want me to associate with my family, since they were not Thiemites. It took years to change and I still get upset when I think that I wasted my 20's in that place, listening to RBT2. I have 30 years perspective on it now....

BeeDub01,
I have sent you a private message.

I am a former "taper" and I am reading this site because I came across it while google-ing for info on the Col. Theime's current condition. I am no longer a taper but I still use many of the concepts and principles taught by Col Theime in my daily Christian walk: rebound technique, faithrest technique and my understanding of dispensations as I read the Bible. I have always been upset with Col Theime's ranting on certain subjects, but I was able to fast forward the tape and get on to the message and that satisfied me. I enjoyed his books and illustrations. I teach his concepts in Sunday School from time to time. I remember him saying, "Get your mind on the message and not the messenger" but you should not separate the two. If you teach the love and forgiveness of the Lord Jesus, then you should demonstrate it in the way you treat your congregation. The Col did not care about other people's feelings enough.

landonalberson,

Unfortunately many people over the years had to attend Berachah night after night.
They were not in a position to 'fast forward' RBTjr's rants, threats, and self-aggrandisement.
Their position was one of utmost stillness and silence which clearly went far beyond normal social behaviour.

I think RBT3 publishes regular updates on his father at the church website.

To BeeDub01:

BeeDub01 quote: "Same with my fascination with serial killers. I don?t think it?s because I am or want to be one. I think it?s because of the control serial killers have over the victim. Much like the control Thieme had over his followers."

Truthtesty: Can you remember the first time you were fascinated with serial killers/(serial killer control over victims)? What do you remember about the first time?

What or how do you see Thieme controlling his followers from your view?

You are not the 1st to lose faith in -od because of Thieme's errored reeducation training. Many survivors of Thieme's system unwittingly equated Thieme with -od. When they rejected Thieme(which is inevitable) they unnecessarily rejected -od.

By the way no record can be found at ASU of Thieme being on the boxing or football teams; let alone lettering.


Truthtesty

To landonalberson:

It is my view from taking a careful study of the evidence that most of Thieme's concepts and principes are incorrect.

One issue that is most central and all thiemites should become aware of is that it is not necessary for pastor to exercise a lording authority over a believer's faith, for spiritual growth.

2 Corinthians 1:24 demonstrates this very simply and clearly:

2 Corinthians 1:24 - Not for that we have dominion(KURIEUO) over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

Vines: [www.antioch.com.sg] kurieuo "to be lord over, rule over, have dominion over" (akin to kuriotes), is used of ...(f) the "dominion" of a person over the faith of other believers, 2_Cor_1:24 (RV, "lordship")

KURIEUO seen in Luke.

Luke 22:25 -  And He said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it(KURIEUO) over them; and those who have authority over them are called'Benefactors.' 26 "But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant.


Truthtesty

Thoughts from a pastor in Hemet, California.

[fullcontactchristianity.org]

(read all 17 responses to the article):-

"...I've devoted a significant portion of my ministry in the last 10 years to helping people within Thieme's sphere of influence to overcome these and other errors. I've earned the right to speak to what the movement does to people. . ."


And an earlier discussion of his on the "doctrinal movement":-

[fullcontactchristianity.org]

"...There are many ways of inducing people to believe that they are part of the chosen few; a combination of abuse and elitism is one of the more common ones. It has the side effect of producing people who follow orders without question and look down on everyone but their leaders - that's why the Marines use it . . ."

To the Forum:

[fullcontactchristianity.org]

Tim quote "Does Thieme have good things to say? Yes. Of course. But there's some bad stuff in there, too, and I don't mean this just in the every teacher makes mistakes way. I mean that there's horrifying, life-destroying, spiritually poisonous teaching woven in with the good stuff and lots of it."

Dr. Wall would agree with this as stated in his doctoral dissertation. "Serious defect not just academic error. "Critique
The most glaring shortcoming of Thieme's analysis of the objective of the
Christian life is that he does not present a balanced view of what the objective is.
The Christian's life objectives include not only developing grace orientation,
mastery of the details of life, a relaxed mental attitude, the capacity to love, and
inner happiness, but they should also include the development of a deeper
personal relationship with Christ (Phil. 3:10a) learning how to tap divine power in
prayer and daily living (Phil. 3:1Ob), learning what it means to be identified with
Christ in his suffering (Phil. 3:10c), serving God so that everything one does
glorifies God (I Cor. 10:31), and completing every responsibility God has given to
us for the course of our lives (2 Tim. 4:7).
15
This last objective includes one's part in fulfilling the great commission of Christ to disciple the nations (Matt.
28:19, 20). This lack of balance is not merely academic. It is a serious defect in
Thieme's teachings for it produces students who are either negative or indifferent
toward active evangelism and ministering to the needs of others.
Also, although Thieme has emphasized some of the characteristics of
spiritual maturity found in Scripture, he leaves a wrong impression of what fully
constitutes maturity. Paradoxically his teaching is at the same time both an
oversimplification and also an overly complex system. The terminology makes
the teaching seem complex, but the analysis itself is simplistic, as it reduces an
extremely broad concept to just five characteristics. The Scriptures describe
spiritual maturity in terms of Christ-likeness (Eph. 4:13), and the character of
Christ involves much more than Thieme's description of the Edification
Complex.
In addition, it should also be observed that Thieme's statements
concerning the "mastering of the details of life" disregard the biblical approach to
one's priorities. Thieme makes family and friends secondary to Bible doctrine.
This is an extremely dangerous approach (as illustrated in the cults such as the
Children of God who define commitment to God in terms of commitment to their
leaders' teachings, and then place the group above family and other relationships).
A healthy set of priorities should place one's personal relationship with God first
(Lk. 14:26), family second (I Pet. 3:1-7; Eph. 5:22-33; 1 Tim. 5:8; and John
15:13), and one's relationship to a teacher and his doctrine at a much lower level
of priority (3 John 9, 10)."

Dr. Wall "Paradoxically his teaching is at the same time both an
oversimplification and also an overly complex system. The terminology makes
the teaching seem complex, but the analysis itself is simplistic, as it reduces an
extremely broad concept to just five characteristics. The Scriptures describe
spiritual maturity in terms of Christ-likeness (Eph. 4:13), ...

Thieme failed to teach the most important focus of maturity. Also, Thieme had no "lording over" authority that was necessary to be recognized to begin spiritual learning as clearly is stated in
2 Cor. 1:24 YLT "not that we are lords over your faith, but we are workers together with your joy, for by the faith ye stand."
The focus is always the perfect authority of Jesus.

Thieme abused the translation from greek not to english, but to an extremist "reich-wing" agenda interpretation(ex: brotherly love). And? As such? Rightly as earned the title for his cult followers "thiemites"

I confronted Thieme and I confront all thiemites now. You do not stand for truth when Thieme taught false, you stood for Thieme over truth. You made no effort to discern for yourself.

Thiemite? If the shoe fits wear it. Thieme was unwarrantedly and overly aggressive "in your face" "stare you down" and "browbeat" you (as long as the armed Houston police were guarding the exits and backing Thieme up). I have no respect for thiemites who will not objectively discern the difference of the perfect authority of Jesus and the corrupt authority of Thieme. Nor do I respect thiemites who do not objectively discern the difference between Thieme doctrine and Bible doctrine. Nor do I respect thiemites who do not discern between the words of Thieme and the Word of -od. Why? because those thiemites who fail to discern are cult followers of Thieme and have earned the title of "thiemites".

Never should the focus be on corrupt man. Thieme should have had a cross behind him and Thieme should have got down on his knees and prayed. Not once did I see an arrogant Thieme kneel to -od.

Truthtesty



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2009 10:04AM by Truthtesty.