Welcome current members of Turning Point Church World Outreach Center. This thread is a place where you can pose questions to others on this forum and state your objections. Lets have a dialogue.

Before you get to far into your questions and objections please take time to read the Forum Rules: [forum.culteducation.com]

Just a couple of thoughts that I had for TP members, and leaders.......

I have heard a few people say that they oppose the direction that Pastor Mike is leading the church, but that they are staying inorder to try and bring change from the inside. I think that this is a noble persuit, but I have concerns about it.

I think that there may be some benefit to that strategy for deacons and elders, as they are in a postion to potentially have some influence. However, I also thinkt hat it's *dangerous*. Continuing to surround yourself with these people that are so persuasive, and sitting under the teachings, you must guard your heart. This won't be easy. You continue to be in my prayers.

For the general members of the body? I think that it's even more dangerous. You are not in a postion to have influence, but to be even more influenced. I think that your voice is so small (given that leaders don't seem to be listening) that you can't be heard from the inside. I also believe that if you stay, you are giving TP leadership and others the impression that you support this move. Someone said ealier that you are either with TP, or against them. While I don't believe we are *against* TP, the TP leaders believe that we are. If you are staying, then TP leaders believe that you are with them. I am also praying for you.

I'm not sure that I made myself clear. But at the risk of butchering it any further, I will stop for now. Please, please ask questions I already have.

When a church de-constructs the instruments of accountability (congregational elections of Elders/deacons, congregational ratification of changes to by-laws etc) they take away the church member's voice. You no longer have a formal vote.


So you are left with two or three options:

1. Sit back, shut your mouth, and go along for the ride.

2. Vote with your pocket book.

3. Vote with your feet.

This is may be why Mike says "let them go" when people do leave.
He may realize they are exercising the only vote they have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2009 06:18AM by TurningPointReject.

You bring up another point. "let them go." We've seen this repeated on the site several times, and I'm sure many of those reading this site have heard it themselves. What does that mean? What is the basis, as presented by leadership, for this? Is there any reasonable explaination given for this practice (a practice that goes against what scripture tells us)? How do you (general, TP members) *justify* this practice to yourself?

Finances. It seems that it's come into question how the finances at TP have been handled. I've seen some very high figures thrown out as Mike's salary. Many of us at this forum have been made aware of the fact that funds from the stewardship campaign were funneled into the general fund. There has been repeated spending freezes for the different ministries at TP, including the benevolent fund.

So, I would ask those of you who continue to call TP your home, who tithe and give sacrificial offerings.....do you know where your money is going? Are you funding the kingdom of God (is there a spending freeze in your ministry)? Are you giving to the poor in your community (benevolence). Or are you paying Pastor Mike's very high salary, and are you paying his traveling expenses when he goes to *conferences* and on mission trips? What about the trips he made during sabatical, how were those funded (I'm not speculating, I really don't know but would like to)?

I know, there were many times that, there was not money in the budget to fund the things that I needed in ministry, so I paid for those things myself. I know of others who do the same. If you are personally funding your own ministry, where is your sacrificial offering? What is it paying for?

How does Mike's salary compare with other's in the office? Is there a fair wage scale? Does the number that we've seen thrown around include benefits, does it include SOMA?

Speaking of SOMA.....Did the funds to purchase and renovate the *SOMA* building come from the stewardship fund? Is SOMA self supporting? Do the fees and tuition that the students pay cover the cost of the building, and salaries for the teachers (or does this come from the general fund too)?

I would like to give TP the benefit of the doubt. I have a lot of questions concerning the finances, and I've had them for a very long time. I never felt like I could ask anyone in leadership these questions. I wish that I would have....or at least realized that the fact I didn't feel like I could was an issue all of it's own.

It was brought to my attention that it was announced from the pulpit that Pastor Mike would be paying for all conferences and trips while on sabatical, the church would not be paying for these things.

Did Turning Point pay for Pastor Mike and Jeff Moors to sit on the beach in Hawaii for a week?

How can families be loosing their homes and their jobs. The poor and needing calling the church constantly for help, handouts, anything. Then, Pastor Mike attend an INCREASE conference in Hawaii for a week? Is this the churches dollar? Is tpc really following the model of Acts who sold everything they had so that none would be without?

Please, tell me. The church did not pay for this "vacation" in Hawaii?

Please, tell me, tpc's conscience is not severed?

I am posting in this thread simply to bump it to the top of the page. Trouble and TPC attender, please post any questions or concerns that you have in this thread. Thank you.

Read Ezekiel 34

Thank you for starting this thread.

I would like to assume that it is okay to challenge one another here if it is necessary?

That said I would like to say that I am here as a part of a journey. If you are thinking 'how can he stay after reading what he has?' I will simply say that though I value everyones opinion here and elsewhere it will be a collaboration of all the data I collect that will help me make my decision.