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Mville04Quote
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Mville04
I guess I have a diferent perspective since I am on the outside of TPC.
I am wondering from those of you still attending the church, why are you going there?What I mean is, why do you chooe tpc to attend over any other church? What makes it so diferent for you?
My reasons for staying after I visited and why I am still there is first and foremost the people who make up TPC. After that I will supply the following list, in no particular order.
1. The worship (I am not a dancer but like that we allow those that are to do so)
2. The heart for being a good member of the community
3. The children’s/youth program
4. The unashamed way they proclaim Jesus Christ
5. Summer Jubilee
6. The heart of those who serve - they are truly an inspiration in self-sacrifice
7. Fan the Flame (though I have not been for some time due to childcare reasons)
8. The push for church unity - I love the pulpit swap
There are others that I think are more sub-points of the main ones I listed.
1. Other churches don't worship?
2. You can't have a good heart and be a good member of the community unless you are with TP?
3. No other churches have children programs?
4. Other churches don't proclaim Jesus Christ? Or does TP just do it better? (up for a lot of debate)
5. No other local churces are involved in Summer Jubilee?
6. You believe that those in other churches don't lend themselves to self sacrifice?
7. Fan the flame? I will give you that one but I don't see how that is needed in a walk with Jesus.
8. Church unity? When you can't even approach the head Pastor nor question him?
How many of the things you listed are from scripture? Fan the Flame? Summer Jubilee? Pulpit swap? How about a praise bowling league? Is that next? It really sounds to me that your reasons for staying are based on human needs rather than a spiritual one. If you are that concerned about your friends perhaps you should take them with you when you go. That would be a loving and caring thing to do in my opinion.
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tpcwocattenderQuote
Mville04Quote
tpcwocattenderQuote
Mville04
I guess I have a diferent perspective since I am on the outside of TPC.
I am wondering from those of you still attending the church, why are you going there?What I mean is, why do you chooe tpc to attend over any other church? What makes it so diferent for you?
My reasons for staying after I visited and why I am still there is first and foremost the people who make up TPC. After that I will supply the following list, in no particular order.
1. The worship (I am not a dancer but like that we allow those that are to do so)
2. The heart for being a good member of the community
3. The children’s/youth program
4. The unashamed way they proclaim Jesus Christ
5. Summer Jubilee
6. The heart of those who serve - they are truly an inspiration in self-sacrifice
7. Fan the Flame (though I have not been for some time due to childcare reasons)
8. The push for church unity - I love the pulpit swap
How many of the things you listed are from scripture? Fan the Flame? Summer Jubilee? Pulpit swap? How about a praise bowling league? Is that next? It really sounds to me that your reasons for staying are based on human needs rather than a spiritual one. If you are that concerned about your friends perhaps you should take them with you when you go. That would be a loving and caring thing to do in my opinion.
Mville04 - My statements were made from a personal perspective not as judgment toward all other churches. I did not declare that TPC was the only church where these attributes were present.
To interpret the answers that I made to the questions as lacking any spiritual depth is unfair and to be honest a cheap shot. To suggest that the structure of a church, the method in which creates fellowship among its congregation, the style of its worship or the quality of its programs is not part of the decision to attend or not attend a particular church is a bold statement. I have met no one who does not take those things into consideration. Each one of us has a unique priority in which we would rank the importance such things.
A church is in its nature created to meet the needs of the congregation. The author of Hebrews tells us not to forsake meeting with each other so we can encourage one another (Heb 10). We have created church as a means in which to fellowship, encourage, worship and teach the body of Christ corporately. It is not a tool for evangelism. Christ commands us to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. Not, build a great church with cool stuff and they will come. The church is the bride of Christ and that is us, his people. You suggested that human need is my primary reason for attending TPC based on what I answered. That there is no spiritual connection between what I answered. I would disagree wholeheartedly. I would ask you to tell me which of those that I listed don't have spiritual impact in one form or fashion and why. I would also state that we do have 'human needs' and yes I believe the church can fulfill some of those needs. I have a deep need to fellowship with people and church gives me a place to do that. I have been created to worship my savior and by it being a fabric of who I am created to be I have a human need to worship. God has created us not to be served but to serve, it is a human need of mine to serve, and I can do that at church. I need to do all these things outside of church as well but to deny them while at church or to suggest that at church I am not satisfying my human needs is incorrect as well. How many times did the Apostle Paul say in one of his letters 'I long to be with you in person...'? Is that a need of the flesh or spirit? Does not the flesh desire that which will fulfill us spiritually? (Please don’t go down the road of sinful desires or needs, that is a gross distortion of my point)
I believe that Mvilles points are valid and I also agree with him regarding your post. In your responses to why you are going to TPC there is a very implied elitism regarding what TPC does and there is definately judgement on your part regarding how TPC does what they do. The unashamed way they proclaim Christ. Cmon what kind of statement is that. That is very judgemental. What is unashamed? Because they shout it. Because they break rules to do what they do? Because they manipulate young people? I am sorry but your answers are typical of the answers for most people that went to Radiant Life but it is a great big mirage and show you are watching at TPC. You are judging the heart of those that serve also. So anyway, I think Mvilles intentions are very good and it is good to have him on here because he has the furthest emotional investment in TPC or church as an institution like TPC. Your answer alone about the considerations in attending a church and your perspective show your lack of spiritual depth. I agree with Mville and am not afraid to say so. Most of the points you make have nothing to do with spiritual needs but have everything to do with human needs. Your reasons are fluff and pastry and not solid foundational reasons or truths for why you are staying at TPC and that is the point that Mvile is trying to show you. yes they are your honest reasons but he is trying to push you to think more deeply about why you are staying and measure up the reasons. Good Luck to you there and i wish the best for you but TPC seems to be headed the same way as RLC which has become and embarrassment and outcast in the community.
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tpcwocattenderQuote
Mville04Quote
tpcwocattenderQuote
Mville04
I guess I have a diferent perspective since I am on the outside of TPC.
I am wondering from those of you still attending the church, why are you going there?What I mean is, why do you chooe tpc to attend over any other church? What makes it so diferent for you?
My reasons for staying after I visited and why I am still there is first and foremost the people who make up TPC. After that I will supply the following list, in no particular order.
1. The worship (I am not a dancer but like that we allow those that are to do so)
2. The heart for being a good member of the community
3. The children’s/youth program
4. The unashamed way they proclaim Jesus Christ
5. Summer Jubilee
6. The heart of those who serve - they are truly an inspiration in self-sacrifice
7. Fan the Flame (though I have not been for some time due to childcare reasons)
8. The push for church unity - I love the pulpit swap
There are others that I think are more sub-points of the main ones I listed.
1. Other churches don't worship?
2. You can't have a good heart and be a good member of the community unless you are with TP?
3. No other churches have children programs?
4. Other churches don't proclaim Jesus Christ? Or does TP just do it better? (up for a lot of debate)
5. No other local churces are involved in Summer Jubilee?
6. You believe that those in other churches don't lend themselves to self sacrifice?
7. Fan the flame? I will give you that one but I don't see how that is needed in a walk with Jesus.
8. Church unity? When you can't even approach the head Pastor nor question him?
How many of the things you listed are from scripture? Fan the Flame? Summer Jubilee? Pulpit swap? How about a praise bowling league? Is that next? It really sounds to me that your reasons for staying are based on human needs rather than a spiritual one. If you are that concerned about your friends perhaps you should take them with you when you go. That would be a loving and caring thing to do in my opinion.
Mville04 - Someone asks a subjective question that I answer and you then attack that answer. Are you just looking to create conflict? It appears that is your purpose here, if I am wrong then I apologize. My statements were made from a personal perspective not as judgment toward all other churches. I did not declare that TPC was the only church where these attributes were present. I was asked simply "why do you attend Turning Point?" I answered them.
To interpret the answers that I made to the questions as lacking any spiritual depth is unfair and to be honest a cheap shot. To suggest that the structure of a church, the method in which creates fellowship among its congregation, the style of its worship or the quality of its programs is not part of the decision to attend or not attend a particular church is a bold statement. I have met no one who does not take those things into consideration. Each one of us has a unique priority in which we would rank the importance such things.
A church is in its nature created to meet the needs of the congregation. The author of Hebrews tells us not to forsake meeting with each other so we can encourage one another (Heb 10). We have created church as a means in which to fellowship, encourage, worship and teach the body of Christ corporately. It is not a tool for evangelism. Christ commands us to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. Not, build a great church with cool stuff and they will come. The church is the bride of Christ and that is us, his people. You suggested that human need is my primary reason for attending TPC based on what I answered. That there is no spiritual connection between what I answered. I would disagree wholeheartedly. I would ask you to tell me which of those that I listed don't have spiritual impact in one form or fashion and why. I would also state that we do have 'human needs' and yes I believe the church can fulfill some of those needs. I have a deep need to fellowship with people and church gives me a place to do that. I have been created to worship my savior and by it being a fabric of who I am created to be I have a human need to worship. God has created us not to be served but to serve, it is a human need of mine to serve, and I can do that at church. I need to do all these things outside of church as well but to deny them while at church or to suggest that at church I am not satisfying my human needs is incorrect as well. How many times did the Apostle Paul say in one of his letters 'I long to be with you in person...'? Is that a need of the flesh or spirit? Does not the flesh desire that which will fulfill us spiritually? (Please don’t go down the road of sinful desires or needs, that is a gross distortion of my point)
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Daughter of Dorcas
A debate is a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly or group involving opposing viewpoints. Debate is a healthy way to talk about matters that are important to a group with a common interest. There is a difference between debate and a personal attack. People should not think that because someone disagrees wtih their view that they are attacking them, they are just asking that you look at the question from another viewpoint that is not your own.
Daughter of Dorcas