Quote
Mville04
I guess I have a diferent perspective since I am on the outside of TPC.

I am wondering from those of you still attending the church, why are you going there?What I mean is, why do you chooe tpc to attend over any other church? What makes it so diferent for you?

My reasons for staying after I visited and why I am still there is first and foremost the people who make up TPC. After that I will supply the following list, in no particular order.
1. The worship (I am not a dancer but like that we allow those that are to do so)
2. The heart for being a good member of the community
3. The children’s/youth program
4. The unashamed way they proclaim Jesus Christ
5. Summer Jubilee
6. The heart of those who serve - they are truly an inspiration in self-sacrifice
7. Fan the Flame (though I have not been for some time due to childcare reasons)
8. The push for church unity - I love the pulpit swap

There are others that I think are more sub-points of the main ones I listed.

Attender, I appreciate how you've been willing to undergo scrutiny--mine in particular--and still hang in for the discussion.

I admittedly wanted to flush you out because your posts seemed insincere and almost mocking in tone. It appears that I have misunderstood you, and I apologize for any accusations that were false.

(You guys--those of you here who are part of the process--don't need to be afraid to come down on me in public here or in private message. If I can "dish it out," then... Right?)

I'm grateful for everyone here who is sincerely seeking and speaking the truth.

Peace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2009 11:53AM by LearningPoint.

Ezekiel 34 (The Message)

When the Sheep Get Scattered

1-6 God's Message came to me: "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherd-leaders of Israel. Yes, prophesy! Tell those shepherds, 'God, the Master, says: Doom to you shepherds of Israel, feeding your own mouths! Aren't shepherds supposed to feed sheep? You drink the milk, you make clothes from the wool, you roast the lambs, but you don't feed the sheep. You don't build up the weak ones, don't heal the sick, don't doctor the injured, don't go after the strays, don't look for the lost. You bully and badger them. And now they're scattered every which way because there was no shepherd—scattered and easy pickings for wolves and coyotes. Scattered—my sheep!—exposed and vulnerable across mountains and hills. My sheep scattered all over the world, and no one out looking for them!

7-9 "'Therefore, shepherds, listen to the Message of God: As sure as I am the living God—Decree of God, the Master—because my sheep have been turned into mere prey, into easy meals for wolves because you shepherds ignored them and only fed yourselves, listen to what God has to say:

10 "'Watch out! I'm coming down on the shepherds and taking my sheep back. They're fired as shepherds of my sheep. No more shepherds who just feed themselves! I'll rescue my sheep from their greed. They're not going to feed off my sheep any longer!

11-16 "'God, the Master, says: From now on, I myself am the shepherd. I'm going looking for them. As shepherds go after their flocks when they get scattered, I'm going after my sheep. I'll rescue them from all the places they've been scattered to in the storms. I'll bring them back from foreign peoples, gather them from foreign countries, and bring them back to their home country. I'll feed them on the mountains of Israel, along the streams, among their own people. I'll lead them into lush pasture so they can roam the mountain pastures of Israel, graze at leisure, feed in the rich pastures on the mountains of Israel. And I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep. I myself will make sure they get plenty of rest. I'll go after the lost, I'll collect the strays, I'll doctor the injured, I'll build up the weak ones and oversee the strong ones so they're not exploited.

17-19 "'And as for you, my dear flock, I'm stepping in and judging between one sheep and another, between rams and goats. Aren't you satisfied to feed in good pasture without taking over the whole place? Can't you be satisfied to drink from the clear stream without muddying the water with your feet? Why do the rest of my sheep have to make do with grass that's trampled down and water that's been muddied?

20-22 "'Therefore, God, the Master, says: I myself am stepping in and making things right between the plump sheep and the skinny sheep. Because you forced your way with shoulder and rump and butted at all the weaker animals with your horns till you scattered them all over the hills, I'll come in and save my dear flock, no longer let them be pushed around. I'll step in and set things right between one sheep and another.

23-24 "'I'll appoint one shepherd over them all: my servant David. He'll feed them. He'll be their shepherd. And I, God, will be their God. My servant David will be their prince. I, God, have spoken.

25-27 "'I'll make a covenant of peace with them. I'll banish fierce animals from the country so the sheep can live safely in the wilderness and sleep in the forest. I'll make them and everything around my hill a blessing. I'll send down plenty of rain in season—showers of blessing! The trees in the orchards will bear fruit, the ground will produce, they'll feel content and safe on their land, and they'll realize that I am God when I break them out of their slavery and rescue them from their slave masters.

28-29 "'No longer will they be exploited by outsiders and ravaged by fierce beasts. They'll live safe and sound, fearless and free. I'll give them rich gardens, lavish in vegetables—no more living half-starved, no longer taunted by outsiders.

30-31 "'They'll know, beyond doubting, that I, God, am their God, that I'm with them and that they, the people Israel, are my people. Decree of God, the Master:

You are my dear flock, the flock of my pasture, my human flock,
And I am your God.
Decree of God, the Master.'"


So TPC Attender,

If you are aware that the remaining pastoral staff is feeding on the flock for their own worldly gain, why are you still there? How can you listen to a Pastor who has lost the Lord's covering? How can you respect a pastoral staff who have lied or knowingly made false statements, when the truth was right there for all to see? How can you sit under the teaching of a pastor who refuses to shepherd his flock according to the word of God? Do you place no value on the salvation that Jesus bought for you on the cross? Pastor Mike's professional conduct mocks God. His refusal to meet with anyone except his cronies is an afront to all Pastors who do the Father's work. Pastor Mike, the pastoral staff, and the elders actions have robbed people of their trust and faith in Pastors and church leadership. Explain to me how you can rationalize away the truth and remain?

Daughter of Dorcas



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2009 01:00PM by Daughter of Dorcas.

Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
Ezekiel 34 (The Message)

When the Sheep Get Scattered

1-6 God's Message came to me: "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherd-leaders of Israel. Yes, prophesy! Tell those shepherds, 'God, the Master, says: Doom to you shepherds of Israel, feeding your own mouths! Aren't shepherds supposed to feed sheep? You drink the milk, you make clothes from the wool, you roast the lambs, but you don't feed the sheep. You don't build up the weak ones, don't heal the sick, don't doctor the injured, don't go after the strays, don't look for the lost. You bully and badger them. And now they're scattered every which way because there was no shepherd—scattered and easy pickings for wolves and coyotes. Scattered—my sheep!—exposed and vulnerable across mountains and hills. My sheep scattered all over the world, and no one out looking for them!

7-9 "'Therefore, shepherds, listen to the Message of God: As sure as I am the living God—Decree of God, the Master—because my sheep have been turned into mere prey, into easy meals for wolves because you shepherds ignored them and only fed yourselves, listen to what God has to say:

10 "'Watch out! I'm coming down on the shepherds and taking my sheep back. They're fired as shepherds of my sheep. No more shepherds who just feed themselves! I'll rescue my sheep from their greed. They're not going to feed off my sheep any longer!

11-16 "'God, the Master, says: From now on, I myself am the shepherd. I'm going looking for them. As shepherds go after their flocks when they get scattered, I'm going after my sheep. I'll rescue them from all the places they've been scattered to in the storms. I'll bring them back from foreign peoples, gather them from foreign countries, and bring them back to their home country. I'll feed them on the mountains of Israel, along the streams, among their own people. I'll lead them into lush pasture so they can roam the mountain pastures of Israel, graze at leisure, feed in the rich pastures on the mountains of Israel. And I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep. I myself will make sure they get plenty of rest. I'll go after the lost, I'll collect the strays, I'll doctor the injured, I'll build up the weak ones and oversee the strong ones so they're not exploited.

17-19 "'And as for you, my dear flock, I'm stepping in and judging between one sheep and another, between rams and goats. Aren't you satisfied to feed in good pasture without taking over the whole place? Can't you be satisfied to drink from the clear stream without muddying the water with your feet? Why do the rest of my sheep have to make do with grass that's trampled down and water that's been muddied?

20-22 "'Therefore, God, the Master, says: I myself am stepping in and making things right between the plump sheep and the skinny sheep. Because you forced your way with shoulder and rump and butted at all the weaker animals with your horns till you scattered them all over the hills, I'll come in and save my dear flock, no longer let them be pushed around. I'll step in and set things right between one sheep and another.

23-24 "'I'll appoint one shepherd over them all: my servant David. He'll feed them. He'll be their shepherd. And I, God, will be their God. My servant David will be their prince. I, God, have spoken.

25-27 "'I'll make a covenant of peace with them. I'll banish fierce animals from the country so the sheep can live safely in the wilderness and sleep in the forest. I'll make them and everything around my hill a blessing. I'll send down plenty of rain in season—showers of blessing! The trees in the orchards will bear fruit, the ground will produce, they'll feel content and safe on their land, and they'll realize that I am God when I break them out of their slavery and rescue them from their slave masters.

28-29 "'No longer will they be exploited by outsiders and ravaged by fierce beasts. They'll live safe and sound, fearless and free. I'll give them rich gardens, lavish in vegetables—no more living half-starved, no longer taunted by outsiders.

30-31 "'They'll know, beyond doubting, that I, God, am their God, that I'm with them and that they, the people Israel, are my people. Decree of God, the Master:

You are my dear flock, the flock of my pasture, my human flock,
And I am your God.
Decree of God, the Master.'"


So TPC Attender,

If you are aware that the remaining pastoral staff is feeding on the flock for their own worldly gain, why are you still there? How can you listen to a Pastor who has lost the Lord's covering? How can you respect a pastoral staff who have lied or knowingly made false statements, when the truth was right there for all to see? How can you sit under the teaching of a pastor who refuses to shepherd his flock according to the word of God? Do you place no value on the salvation that Jesus bought for you on the cross? Pastor Mike's professional conduct mocks God. His refusal to meet with anyone except his cronies is an afront to all Pastors who do the Father's work. He causes has robbed people of their trust and faith in Pastors. Explain to me how you can rationalize away the truth and remain?

Daughter of Dorcas

D oF D,
I love your zeal and your fervor.

The sad truth is that we all leave on our own time. Leaving one's church cannot be easy when one has been there for a long time and has been actively involved. It isnt as though one is leaving a building. Attender is having to come to terms with leaving people; people he loves; people he has invested in; people who mean a great deal to him and to his family.

Please, afford attender, the right to leave in his own time, on his own accord, for his own reasons. In the meantime we should pray. For his protection; for insight and understanding; for boldness; for his wisdom and his words.

We should pray for those whose eyes are still closed; for those who have given themselves to the task of enabling the dysfunction of TPc and of Mike; we should pray for Mike and Cyndi and their recovery and redemption; we should pray for those whose hearts families have been broken by TPc.

TurningPointReject

Your right?

TPC Attender

I will pray for you,

D of D

Thank you everyone. I do need prayer. I want to accomplish what God has for me. I feel like a soldier walking through a mine field and can see every mine. I feel safe. I can thank God and the truth of His word for that. I can thank His people (some here on this forum) for helping open my eyes.

I had you read ezekiel 34 as a sign that I can see what is going on.

Thanks for your prayers. If I could ask you to pray specifically it would be to know the time when God wants me to leave if that day comes. I say 'if' to give God room to work. Maybe a little for my own peace, I can admit that.

I meant:

TurningPointReject

Your right!

TPC Attender

I just worry about everyone at TPC because I believe they are in a toxic church and that is not healthy for anyone. I just want everyone to be save and poured into like they should be.

D of D

I am not commenting on the video article which is on the website for the Everett Herald this
today. However, I will post a link so that folks can see what Pastor Casey Treat and other area Pastors (no they didn't talk to Pastor Mike or at least he was not included in this online article) had to say about Faith & Finances:

The Herald talked to local church leaders about what their beliefs tell them about money.

[www.heraldnet.com]

Daughter of Dorcas

Quote
tpcwocattender

Quote
Mville04
I guess I have a diferent perspective since I am on the outside of TPC.

I am wondering from those of you still attending the church, why are you going there?What I mean is, why do you chooe tpc to attend over any other church? What makes it so diferent for you?

My reasons for staying after I visited and why I am still there is first and foremost the people who make up TPC. After that I will supply the following list, in no particular order.
1. The worship (I am not a dancer but like that we allow those that are to do so)
2. The heart for being a good member of the community
3. The children’s/youth program
4. The unashamed way they proclaim Jesus Christ
5. Summer Jubilee
6. The heart of those who serve - they are truly an inspiration in self-sacrifice
7. Fan the Flame (though I have not been for some time due to childcare reasons)
8. The push for church unity - I love the pulpit swap

There are others that I think are more sub-points of the main ones I listed.

1. Other churches don't worship?
2. You can't have a good heart and be a good member of the community unless you are with TP?
3. No other churches have children programs?
4. Other churches don't proclaim Jesus Christ? Or does TP just do it better? (up for a lot of debate)
5. No other local churces are involved in Summer Jubilee?
6. You believe that those in other churches don't lend themselves to self sacrifice?
7. Fan the flame? I will give you that one but I don't see how that is needed in a walk with Jesus.
8. Church unity? When you can't even approach the head Pastor nor question him?

How many of the things you listed are from scripture? Fan the Flame? Summer Jubilee? Pulpit swap? How about a praise bowling league? Is that next? It really sounds to me that your reasons for staying are based on human needs rather than a spiritual one. If you are that concerned about your friends perhaps you should take them with you when you go. That would be a loving and caring thing to do in my opinion.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2009 03:16AM by Brokenhearted.