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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: May 24, 2011 08:15PM

Here is an wikipedia excerpt from the Followers Of Christ Church, mentioned in the article i linked to earlier. Take note of the similarities of this church to the sort of issues talked about here regarding
SMC:


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Followers of Christ is an unorthodox Christian denomination based in the U.S. state of Oregon. The church has attracted controversy for its practices of faith healing and of shunning members who violate church doctrine, including those who seek medical care. in Oregon and other places where church members are found, numerous children have suffered premature deaths from treatable causes due to their parents' refusal to seek medical care; a former Oregon state medical examiner claims the infant mortality rate within the Followers of Christ community is 26 times greater that of the general population.[1][2] Church members and other have argued that parents should have the right to select whatever methods of healing they deem appropriate for their children and that public policy, which requires use of conventional medicine over faith healing, constitutes a violation of freedom of religion.

Estimates of the church's membership range from 1,200[4] to 2,300.[6][7] The Oregon City church has secluded itself from all other churches that share its name.
The church is Pentecostal in origin, and believes in a literal interpretation of Scripture, including in the power of faith healing – in the context of Pentecostal Christianity, the use of prayer and laying on of hands to cure illness.[3] Unlike many other churches which include faith healing as part of their doctrine such as Christian Science, the Followers refuse all forms of medicine and professional medical care. The church practices shunning of those who violate or challenge church doctrine, including those who seek medical treatment; it has been alleged that many Followers clandestinely see doctors in defiance of church teaching.[4] The church is also known for legalism[8] and a male-dominated society.
anip
Since the death of White, members of the church have increasingly isolated themselves from the community at large. The church no longer recruits or admits new members.[2] According to church members, children raised in the church attend public schools, but do not socialize outside the church once reaching middle-school age.[9]

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: May 25, 2011 01:42AM

Quote
Stephen
Whats this Latigo214?

[latigo214.info]

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: ThePetitor ()
Date: May 25, 2011 04:17PM

The Harold Camping prophesy reminds me of a Wikipedia article “when prophesy fails” [en.wikipedia.org] which I think was pointed out by SeekingSusan in an earlier post (although I can’t find the link).

I can see exactly that sort of thing happening in Struthers – in fact, come to think of it, it has already happened. Not regarding the end of the world, but regarding revival. The New Year Message and other “prophecies” have predicted revival continuously since the beginning of the movement. Now some of these messages, for example about the church spreading out and new branches opening, seemed to be fulfilled at the time, but it is a long time since there has been any realisation of prophesy. This has been explained away by saying things like revival has come, it just hasn’t been noticed (how bizarre!) or that “God’s time is not our time” (so why is this prophesy an annual event, and how do you reconcile these two statements – has it come or hasn’t it?) No-one outside of Stuthers would see any link between the new year prophesies and what is happening in the church. Look back at the list of prophesies on the SMC site if you want to check this. They are still there for now, but will probably be removed if people start to comment on them. The whole “our prophesies are true it is just you don’t understand them” is just another example of the Emperors New Clothes- not so very far from the “when prophesy fails” scenario described in Wikipedia.

One thing though, according to Struthers, the people in the Harold Camping churches will be OK. They are doing exactly what the Struthers leaders would encourage them to do – obey your leaders. I wonder what would happen if someone from Harold Camping’s church wrote to Grace Gault to say, “I am a member of the Harold Camping Church. Should I stay or should I leave?” If she is to stick to Sturthers doctrine, she should presumably say, “Stay - and obey your leader.” I wonder if she would have said the same to members of the Jim Jones movement – the 900 who committed suicide together. Is the doctrine really “obey your leaders no matter what”? The only alternative I can see is to say to people, “judge what you hear and make up your own mind whether it is true, and here are some of the tools you should use – looking for the fruit of the spirit, checking what is said against the Bible, examining whether it leads to good works and a fulfilment of the Great Commission (go into all the world and preach the gospel).” That would have some far-reaching consequences for SMC. There would be nobody left!

Finally, Stephen and others, if you haven’t looked at the Latigo site, you should! It states its purpose as “To place in the public domain information and articles for people who have questions about the practices, teaching and beliefs of Struthers Memorial Church” and includes comments (questions mainly) about various practices and quotes from sermons. Some really interesting stuff there.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: May 26, 2011 01:11AM

Just been on another cult awareness website. Watchman Fellowship. As an evangelical and conservative organisation it has the statement of faith declaration shown below. I wonder if this statement and it alone are considered necessary for salvation in the eyes of SMC:

Statement of Faith

Watchman Fellowship endorses a biblically based, conservative, evangelical position, proclaiming that all must turn from sin to trust the death, burial, and resurrection of the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ, as the only remedy for sin and the sole foundation for true religion.

Watchman Fellowship holds to these foundational truths of God's Word:

The Bible, inerrant as originally given, is God's verbally inspired, complete revelation to mankind.
There is one God, who is infinitely holy and perfect, existing eternally in the Persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The virgin birth, earthly miracles, sinless life, substitutionary death on the cross, bodily resurrection, ascension, and literal second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the Divine Person sent to indwell, guide, empower and sanctify the believer, and thus to bear witness of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The true Church consists of all those who trust in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the sole and sufficient means for obtaining forgiveness of their sins and eternal life with God. Those who so trust in Jesus Christ, are redeemed through His blood and are born again of the Holy Spirit.

There will be a resurrection of both the saved and the lost, the first to everlasting life and the second to everlasting punishment.



NOTE THE SOLE AND SUFFICENT MEANS bit here....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 01:16AM by seekingsusan.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: May 26, 2011 01:13AM

Its worth noting that Camping is an Annihilationist.

I wonder if SMC has moved to that position too. Maybe some do - even some leaders. I dont know. Anyone else care to shed some light ?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: May 26, 2011 07:56AM

Yes, Clive, I am aware that SMC members have been told not to read the posts on this Forum. This instruction was given on Sat night of 12th March which I think was the last one to be put on podcast. No doubt members will still be getting told not to read the Forum.

I just thought that if they read the Forum posts, they might do as the Bible, which they claim is their authority for leading and teaching their church, tells us where it says Give an answer to everyone who asks of you, and also carry out the Bible's many injunctions to humble oneself and be open to correction. As they say in Glasgow, "Aye right". (No chance of that).

Re the American church which forbids its members from receiving medical treatment, this is a timely warning for all of us and yes, I agree, for SMC leaders. Something like that can creep in and then be adopted as the doctrine of a church, with lack of faith for healing being the accusation if the illness does not go. I did see an instance whilst in SMC of someone who did not go to the Doctor when they should have, leading to serious consequences. The reason was that the person spiritualised the illness and was too taken up with fighting it spiritually, and in so doing, necessary medical treatment was not sought. So the danger is there.

Also, re unfulfilled prophecies, there was a young woman in SMC years ago, who had a serious heart condition and a leader prophecied that she would be healed. She wasn't and she died less than a year later. Nothing was ever said about the leader getting this wrong. The reason given again and again for revival not coming was that the people in SMC weren't prepared enough, pure enough, expectant enough etc etc, i.e. the blame was placed on the members for not being ready. What I could never understand was why it was only Struthers that was to have revival and not any other churches, which I know were and are seeking and praying for revival too. I used to wonder if there were to be two revivals - an SMC one and another for all other Christians!

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: CovLass ()
Date: May 26, 2011 07:44PM

In my daily bible reading today I came across a familiar passage of scripture taken from the Sermon on the Mount. I thought it was very relevant to Struthers Leaders as it relates firstly to their false prophecies, and secondly to the warnings they issues to their members, to be careful to avoid the 'wolves in sheeps clothing'.

The verse Im referring to in particular is found in Matthew 7:15

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

It is the false prophet who is the ravenous wolf dressed as a sheep. It is the false prophet that the Struthers members are constantly being warned to be aware, even afraid of and to avoid at all cost. Jesus warns us to judge a tree by its fruit. Presumably given the context of this passage, this means the fruit of the prophersies they have made. Have the many prophesies spoken of in Struthers really happened? Were the discernments made really true or did people have to perform mental gymnastics to make them fit their lives? If this is the case then the fruit of the prophet is bad. The prophet is not really a prophet at all but a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Its interesting that this passage of scripture then goes on to tackle another assumption made by Struthers leaders. The one that goes "Look at all the people who have been delivered through our ministry and look at all the miracles we have performed. Surely those alone, are a sign that God is with us and his anointing rests upon us strongly"

Lets take a look at Jesus answer to this assumption. This is found in Matthew 7:22-23

"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

So it appears that according to Jesus, one cannot claim to have a deep spiritual anointing based soley on the miracles they do. We are to judge 'them' by their fruits. So what fruits are they? Well regarding prophesy, the prophecy actually coming to pass is a good plumb line. Blaming the failure of the prophesy on the unfaithfulness of the church members is a joke. Do we really think God didnt factor human frailty when he gave his word on a matter?

I would also say that the ther fruits we need to judge by are the presence (or lack) of the fruits of the Spirit. Namely love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. If these fruits are lacking in the lives of Struthers church leaders and their prophesies are regularly not coming to pass, then maybe they are the wolves in sheeps clothing.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: susie ()
Date: May 27, 2011 01:50AM

Hi folks

On the subject of false prophecy. The leader of the Cumbernauld branch of SMC told the church that Miss Taylor the founder of The Struthers Movement had given a prophecy regarding her, saying that she would spearhead revival. That as far as I know has never happened. The leader of Cumbernauld church also said that God was giving her three towns; Motherwell, Coatbridge, and Airdrie. I remember the relentless praying for these places on a tuesday night prayer meeting. Needless to say it was a bit of a damp squib. Although Airdrie is a good part of her church it is hardly a fulfillment of what God had said. There were many other prophesies, that were not fulfilled, they were mainly prophesies about people. In most of the cases the people concerned left. It came to a point that every time the leader of the Cumbernauld church gave a prophecy concerning one of her chosen you could be sure they were on their way out of SMC. If the prophecy does not come true it is not of God, He does not make false statments. He knows what is going to happen before it happens. It is either true or false their is no inbetween -or excuses why the prophecy failed.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lovealways ()
Date: May 27, 2011 05:46AM

Quote
susie
Hi folks

On the subject of false prophecy. The leader of the Cumbernauld branch of SMC told the church that Miss Taylor the founder of The Struthers Movement had given a prophecy regarding her, saying that she would spearhead revival. That as far as I know has never happened. The leader of Cumbernauld church also said that God was giving her three towns; Motherwell, Coatbridge, and Airdrie. I remember the relentless praying for these places on a tuesday night prayer meeting. Needless to say it was a bit of a damp squib. Although Airdrie is a good part of her church it is hardly a fulfillment of what God had said. There were many other prophesies, that were not fulfilled, they were mainly prophesies about people. In most of the cases the people concerned left. It came to a point that every time the leader of the Cumbernauld church gave a prophecy concerning one of her chosen you could be sure they were on their way out of SMC. If the prophecy does not come true it is not of God, He does not make false statments. He knows what is going to happen before it happens. It is either true or false their is no inbetween -or excuses why the prophecy failed.

Hi Susie,

Spearhead revival? Where?


"Christian revival is a term that generally refers to a specific period of increased spiritual interest or renewal in the life of a church congregation or many churches, either regionally or globally. This should be distinguished from the use of the term "revival" to refer to a evangelistic meeting or series of meetings"

Is it even biblical? Where is the Scripture in God's Word?

After reading your post concerning the three towns. I remember the leader of the Cumbernauld SMC also saying quite a few years later. That God said to her that He was giving her 10 cities. Where are they?

Passage Luke 19:17:
And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Faithful in a very little? Where is Motherwell? Where is Coatbridge? Do they have meetings there any longer? Can someone please verify if there are meetings held at these locations? And if not, why not? She declaired that God said He would give her 10 cities? And if God hasn't was it because she was not faithful?

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: May 27, 2011 08:23AM

Quote
CovLass
Lets take a look at Jesus answer to this assumption. This is found in Matthew 7:22-23

"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

So it appears that according to Jesus, one cannot claim to have a deep spiritual anointing based soley on the miracles they do. We are to judge 'them' by their fruits. So what fruits are they? Well regarding prophesy, the prophecy actually coming to pass is a good plumb line. Blaming the failure of the prophesy on the unfaithfulness of the church members is a joke. Do we really think God didnt factor human frailty when he gave his word on a matter?

Maybe they’ve been listening to too much Ray Comfort:

[www.jesus-is-savior.com]

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