It’s double standards. Members are expected in Church every Sunday whatever the circumstances. If you don’t turn up, it’s followed up.
The leadership go on holidays no questions asked.
I don’t believe the leadership have a direct line to god, to know all our sins.
It’s disturbing spiritual abuse.

O, Petitor, you made me laugh so much with your comment about hair-dye not changing what’s at the roots! Hilarious! But true.

Daisy69, I appreciate your sharing your experiences at Struthers on here. I hope you are recovering well after leaving SMC. Please don’t think about returning. You have definitely made the right decision to leave and you’re right about the spiritual abuse that goes on in SMC.

You asked about spiritual abuse occurring in the Cedars house. Well, it’s the same as what goes on in the Church and how people are treated by the leaders, with the added elements of having to hand one’s money over to help with the upkeep and rental of the house. I know there were some teenagers who went to live there and had to hand over their College bursary to Alison Speirs, who was in charge of Cedars house, leaving them with very little spending money. To me, that is cult-like. There were other residents, in their twenties and thirties who had to contribute to the mortgage and upkeep for the lower part of the Cedars house after that was purchased. Television was not allowed and only particular radio stations could be listened to, ie no pop or light, romantic music.

Other spiritual abuse included monitoring of relationships and dating, and having to attend all or most of the Church meetings. They had a large people-carrier type of vehicle which was used to transport Cedars house residents up to the meetings in Glasgow because Alison Speirs was the minister there. I know that people who became ill didn’t always get sympathy and there was a pressure to get healed. (But only God can heal). I do know that Mary Black once got involved, when a resident who was ill for a time, was being treated unkindly in the house. Cedars house had its own GP doctor who is a member of Struthers. If anyone needed medical input, this GP was called in to the house. So they didn’t even have to go to a doctor they didn’t know. For a time, a number of Cedars residents were teaching students and they got jobs at the Cedars School after it expanded and moved to the present, larger building.

Just to say, Daisy69, Conversion therapy is not law yet. It is only at the proposals/consultation stage in Scotland so not in law yet. It would affect other churches too, not just Struthers. Some of us on here are still committed Christians and involved at healthy churches.

Going foreign holidays is a relatively recent activity in Struthers, so much that nobody thinks about the rights and wrongs of it anymore. But in previous decades, none of the main leaders ever went on holiday. If they travelled, it was to carry out a Mission or speak at a Christian conference. Hardly any of the congregation went holidays abroad either as it was deemed to be worldly and pleasure-seeking. Sunbathing was mocked many times by Hugh Black and Mary. Funnily enough, it would be OK to eat a lot and eat unhealthy food, but it was wrong to sunbathe! Things have changed in that regard, concerning foreign holidays.

@The Petitor, it was Mary Black who often spoke against using makeup and hair dye, as well as against wearing earrings. Miss Taylor had rules about clothes, ie no denim jeans, or trousers for the women.

You’re correct, Daisy69, in saying that the leaders and many of the congregants have double standards. But remember that they are the holiest, most sanctified church on earth! Not.

One of the most disturbing aspects of the church, is that they claim that mental illness, is healed through deliverance. They encourage members, who have serious conditions, to stop taking medications. They then sell it as a miracle to new members.
It’s basically, putting others at risk.

Starting the Cedars school was always daft to anyone looking in. They took kids out of their state schools who already attended Struthers on Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning, Sunday night, and sometimes also midweek, and drove them out to Greenock every day to make sure that they were neck deep in Struthers indoctrination all day during the week as well – just in case all weekend wasn’t enough already. Those kids’ brains must be completely fried.

It's truly tragic that the school has to be subsidised by the congregation. The money would be far better used in initiatives that show tangible results – like feeding the homeless in Glasgow and Greenock for example.

Its fascinating to hear about converted atheist Alison Speirs leaving the church. If anyone ever finds out the details why, please do post here. I wonder if the remaining church members have been ordered to forget about and shun her now, like so many of us have experienced? Or will she be spared and given special treatment by the new leaders. Surely inside she must be feeling terrible, lost, and fearing for her eternal salvation, given what she told all of us for so many years – that Struthers was really the only church ‘holy’ enough to get one into heaven.

When I was a child at camp in Biggar I once got summoned to a room, inside was Alison Speirs and an empty chair. She told me that there was all sorts wrong with me spiritually. I had to confess my crimes; what was it that I was doing that had invited the devil in? I had no idea what I had done; seeing as I’d never asked the devil to take over my soul. She kept asking me what bad and worldly activities I was partaking in. Eventually I realised that I had to give some sort of answer if I wanted to get out of the room without creating a scene, so I blamed listening to non-Christian music. This reason was deemed satisfactory, and after getting told off for this I of course also got into trouble for denying doing anything at first. The summer camp was a week of extremely slow, painful mental torture, carefully planned and executed by the church and its leaders.

So Alison Speirs, now that you are no longer deemed to be Struthers-level material, put yourself in that chair and ask yourself: What is it that you did that let the devil into your life? What is it that made you stray from God, and most importantly, Struthers? Did you accidentally listen to the Stones on the radio? Did you watch The Traitors late one night when everyone else had gone to bed? I’m just asking from a position of care and love… its time for you to sit in the chair, just come onto this forum and confess what you did!

I’m sure the departure of Alison Speirs will be a gReAt loSs to tHe SoUl aNd inTeGRitY of Struthers Memorial Church.

I attended Struthers for several years as a teenager back in the 90s. Honestly, I miss those days a lot. If I didn't live in a different continent now, I think I'd probably want to go back.

Was it a cult back then? I don't think so. Is it now? I don't have any way to know, but I doubt it. I think what it was, and still is, is a group of diverse people who don't always agree, without any real formal structure of leadership or constitutional framework, all earnestly trying to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and often getting it right. Often, but not always.

I do think some cult-like behaviours emerge from that kind of society, though. I think some members were over-willing to surrender control of their lives to the leadership, and some of the leaders perhaps accepted that responsibility when they should have found ways to teach personal growth instead. I think an atmosphere of joy was promoted and achieved, but a strange kind of joy that was very serious and often disdainful of humour. I think there was an unspoken, even unintentional shunning of former attendees.

I guess I was shunned. At the age of sixteen I made the mistake of falling for a girl outside church, who was a Mormon, and on exactly two occasions I accompanied her to her church for a social event. That was the extent of my involvement with the Mormon church, and indeed it was the extent of my relationship with the girl in question. I don't know how Struthers people became aware of this, but they did, and I was suddenly no longer welcome. My friends were no longer my friends. I was almost physically hustled out of the coffee shop when I went to buy a CD.

If I had been a stronger, or wiser, or more mature person I think I would have been able to remain at Struthers, but I was a sixteen year old and instead I just stayed away, feeling sad and bitter. I soon joined the Church of the Nazarene, which I have been faithful to ever since, and I remember how different it felt to be in a more mainstream church, easier, more friendly... it was a huge relief. But I also missed the shared experience of deep worship that I knew at Struthers, and that I have never found anywhere else since.

So, I'm no Struthers fanboy. They hurt me back in the day. But still, I'd go back in a heartbeat if I could. I'd go back with my eyes wide open, aware of the flaws and weaknesses of any human organization, aware that Struthers is not exempt from them, and most of all, knowing that whatever its faults are they are not the result of some deliberate master plan to control people, but merely the human failures of good people trying to do what they believe is right, and sometimes getting it wrong.

So, no, I don't think they're a cult. I think they're just a group of people, a church, who share a particular deep and mystical experience of worship, and whose leaders don't always have the experience or judgement to handle complex situations well.

I will say that the rise of Andrew Jewell as a leader gives me a lot of hope for the future of Struthers. He was my close friend, back in the day, and he is a genuinely kind, patient, and funny man.

I suppose I might be able to answer any questions anyone has about those days. I even know who owned Cedars :D

Hi standbyfive, and welcome. It is good to see a different perspective coming into the discussion.

I am glad you were not scarred by the shunning you experienced. As can be seen from this forum, a number of people received similar treatment, and some were quite badly affected.

I guess I have two questions for you. One is what is meant by “deep worship” and whether there is any Biblical reference for that concept. I am not sure I can find any verses that talk about deep worship or anything similar. There are quite a few verses about the mysteries of God but that is always related to knowledge, with phrases about how these mysteries have been revealed and the proclamation of the mysteries, not to mystical experience. I can’t find any reference to deep worship no matter encouragement to seek such an experience.

The problem is that, if scripture does not support “deep and mystical worship” what reason do we have for thinking this is a Christian experience?

Sure, it is enjoyable for those who participate, but I don’t think that makes it Christian.

The leaders of course say it is God but there is no real evidence for that. In fact, the number of people hurt by the church, the clear mistakes made, the total disregard for scripture, the ineffectiveness and the overall decline would suggest that they are no closer to God than anyone else, and may indeed be a great deal further away.

And that brings me to my second question. If you did return, would you confront the leaders about any of that? There are clearly dozens of people that have been hurt by the actions of the leaders – do they not as Christians have a responsibility to at least try to do something about that? I know I could not sleep if I hurt just one person the way many people have been hurt and damaged by this group. Could you really return and sit happily in the pew having a wonderful “deep worship” experience while knowing the damage that has been caused? Is that really what we are called to – to put aside all thoughts of others so that we can have a joyous experience?

Unlike the idea of “deep worship” there are dozens and dozens of Scriptural references to how you should treat other people, especially fellow believers.

ThePetitor Wrote:

> I guess I have two questions for you. One is what
> is meant by “deep worship” and whether there is
> any Biblical reference for that concept.

I'm not very interested in debating theology to be honest, but in any case I don't think this is relevant to a discussion of Struthers as a cult or otherwise.

> And that brings me to my second question. If you
> did return, would you confront the leaders about
> any of that?

Confront, no, but perhaps, attempt to gently influence. I've long since given up on the doctrine of Christian Perfection, or on expecting Christian leaders to behave in ways that are manifestly different to the leaders of other well-meaning human endeavours.

> Could you really return and sit happily in the pew having a wonderful “deep
> worship” experience while knowing the damage that has been caused?

Could I really enter into deep submission to God the creator of the universe, knowing that people in leadership are sometimes inadequate to their role? Uh, yes.

Please forgive me for saying but someone mentioned mystical worship. Therein lies one of the problems. It IS mystical which is a mixture of NAR and New Thought teaching. All of which come from the teachings of Madame Guyon, which back in the day, several leaders spoke highly of. None of this is biblical.

I recently listened to one of the online sermons as it had been a good few years since I left and I was reminded of the voice that all the women ”preachers" used. It reminded me of Kathryn khulman. It is really creepy to listen to.

I was told by someone from the church that I didn't have enough "passion" in my voice while praying. To me it felt irreverent to use such a tone. At struthers it was so about the"feelings" just like NAR

I'M glad I've found this group as I have spoken to a few ex strutherites who were deeply hurt by this church but it is encouraging to know that there are those who are willing to speak up for those who are afraid to and to warn others of the manipulation that takes place in what should be a place of safety to worship God

Hi standbyfive, and thanks for your reply.

In response, I have to say that I find that you not being very interested in debating theology rather ironic. How can you say you don’t think it is relevant to a discussion of Struthers when you introduced the idea of “deep worship” as the very reason you wanted to attend Struthers?

If that is the main reason you would like to attend Struthers, it is surely the single most relevant thing to discuss. It was you who decided that it was central, not me!

As it is the main reason you have quoted for wanting to attend Struthers, should you not be able to explain what this “deep worship” is, and why it is a good thing?

Or – in spite of “not being a Struthers fanboy” will you take a leaf out of their book and respond the way they might? Something along the lines of: “It is your fault oh wicked questioner for asking the wrong questions and for asking them the wrong way. If only you were spiritual and approaching this with the right attitude, then I would of course provide you with the answers you seek. Go and repent and only come back when you are holy (which we will judge by you no longer wanting to ask these questions).”

The scriptures say you should be able to answer for the hope that is within you, and to deal with questions graciously – will you not try to deal with this question, explaining what you think “deep worship” is and where in scripture we can learn about it?

Looking to scripture and trying to tease out answers to questions can also help avoid false equivalences, as I asked about “deep worship” and you responded with a comment about “deep submission”.

I have some idea what submission to God’s will is. That is Biblical, important and relates directly to action. I have however never heard of “submission” as something that stands by itself as some sort of inner or mystical experience - and can again find no scriptural reference for this interpretation of the word “submission”, no matter “deep submission” - whatever that is.

Finally – on this topic at least(!) - I do not follow your implied equivalence between “deep submission” and “deep worship”. Are these the same or different? How are they linked? Does one or the other or both lead to growth in the Kingdom of God? Where are the scriptures that explain these things?

I know you said you were not keen to debate theology, but would that not be a better use of your time than talking about things - or seeking to experience things - that have no basis in the Bible or in any theology?

I cannot agree with your expectation that Christian leaders should not behave in ways that are different to other well-meaning leaders, and would suggest that is very far from the doctrine you will hear preached at Struthers. In terms of sitting alongside people who have made mistakes however, that is fine. I have made many, many mistakes so would be a bit lonely if people did not do that.

That is not what we are talking about there though. These people are on record as claiming infallibility. The Bible says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” but these people have not confessed their sins. They do not allow any criticism, and they have not confessed their sins because they believe that – in spite of the dozens of people in this forum who have been badly hurt – they have done nothing wrong. They need to read and apply verses like Numbers 5v7, “then he shall confess his sin which he has done, and he shall make restitution for his guilt in full, and add to it the fifth part of it, and give it to him in respect of whom he has been guilty.”

Oh, and Escapesoon, good to hear from you. I had drafted my comments before I saw your post, but I think we are on a similar theme here, which is that a lot of Struthers preaching and practice has no basis in scripture. “The voice” is another one of these – where does scripture say, “You will know a person is deeply spiritual and speaking with my authority if you hear a tremble in their voice”? I would suggest to anyone in the Struthers congregation that, as soon as you hear that tremble, you stop listening, as the speaker is falsely boasting about their own spirituality and turning attention away from God to themselves.

I’ve followed this forum for years. Wow. I’m not alone. Struthers memorial church destroyed more people than just me. Spiritual abuse. That is exactly what it is.

It sickens me to know that people are performing on that platform, praying with individuals, speaking with lost souls. And yet they themselves are not only broken. They are completely lost and also narcissistic human beings.

There are certain individuals, households and people in Struthers that will always be kept safe and their names covered. I’m not going to name names. What’s the point. I’ve debated it for a long, long time. Truth be know. I would never want to destroy these individuals in the way that they destroyed me. Because I am true, I’m a Christian and I will do the right thing. I’m not currently brave enough to share my full story with all the evidence that I have. I will though. When I feel strong. And I won’t do it to shame anyone. I’ll do it to save other people from experiencing the horrific life that I did.

I want to be very clear. I don’t want to slate struthers. I had ‘some’happy times there. I had friends, I had a life. But when they decided my face didn’t fit….they destroyed me. It was heart breaking. My name was left it tatters. As we all know, when you are forced to leave, individuals will cross the street if they see you coming rather than say hello. The truth will come out.

On a side just to clarify re some of the discussions on cedars. Alison and Sheila bought the house cedars upstairs. When they bought the bottom floor, Elaine chipped in. The church bought the house next door. I can tell you a lot but I also want to be respectful to a point. So I’ll take any questions and answer truthfully if appropriate.