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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: out of it ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:20PM

lovealways I felt it far better for me to answer you instead of my husband.

Apology accepted all be it a very weak one because there was no appear to have hurt. You did hurt. Not just by what you wrote but what you also assumed personally.

When I first came across this site I felt it was a good thing to allow people to share there experiences of what happened to them.

Now I do not know.

Maybe you are not aware I actually had a serious illness----Pulmonary Embolism mass of blood clots on my lungs.

You have not answered any of the questions asked. Yes you may feel what is being written not very nice but some of the statements were very personal about me. I did not think them very nice.

For some reason you seem to accept that what you wrote appears acceptable because you were hurt/abused/lied to by SMC leaders.

Do not get me wrong I understand what they can do, how powerful their words are (as I said before we lost everything) but I believe you should justify some of your own bold personal statements about me the woman from England.

For example,
"I was not convinced", was a personal statement by you. Even before I came to the Cumbernauld church and the disgusting lies and hate campaign about me-------why not answer that question?
You did write it.

I would like the questions answered regarding all the statements, come on you wrote them without a thought of who would read them. Please have a little concern towards my feelings.

I understand you are not well regarding PTSD but this does not give you the right to not be responsible in what you write regarding other people.

Your words/personal statements caused me pain and your reply for me and to me is insufficient.

I know obviously what you think of me through your comments. I would like to empathise that this forum is open to the world.
Maybe next time you might think before you decided to use a person who was innocent of what she was accused of beforehand.

I do not know of you or your past but I would never disbelieve your experience in the Lord Jesus. Why? Because I hope I do not judge, I hope I do as the Lord ask of me and I believe NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD.

I want to be honest as this was never a trait I found at SMC, I as you and others here suffered unbelievable things and
I as you and others have never been given answers why.

That is why I again ask you for the questions to be answered. Not any other reason.

All the lies, hiding, fear of what these SMC leaders could do has been allowed because of not questioning those responsible for the preaching/words/actions/statements/accusations were never forced to answer.

SO could you at least answer some of them.

Thank you

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lovealways ()
Date: April 05, 2011 12:25AM

Dear out of it,
I will answer the questions to the best of my ability. Everyone that your husband put on the forum.
1 "She was in witchcraft" The truth is she was saved and born again by the spirit of God like those of us who believe and was saved in her own home and baptised in the Holy Spirit
Answer - Everyone was told at the august camp that you had been in witchcraft. I did not know that you had been saved and born again by the spirit of God like those of us who believe and was saved in her own home and baptised in the Holy Spirit This information was omitted in what we where told about you.

2 ' yes hundreds of years" Why the double statement? Isn't it amazing that nothing is impossible with God
Answer - The double statement was because it is amazing that God can and does set people free, even though things had been in familys for hundrerds of years. Namely the witchcraft which the pastor and you yourself testified from the front at the august camp in front of a lot of people.

3 "I was not convinced" Can you not see how damaging these words are to this person. It appears to me that this statement you have made is very similar to the emotional abuse that many on this forum have suffered at the hands of SMC leaders
Can you please explain clearly what you mean by that statement?
Answer - As I said before you didnt look well (unknown to me and others you had Pulmonary Embolism mass of blood clots on your lungs.) A very serious condition indeed that I am very sorry to hear about. Its unlikely that I would have been so quick to judge. Had I known at the time.

4 "Went and joined the London Church" She was already a member of the London Church and had been for 18mths
Answer - I never knew nor had been told that you had been part of the London church before.

5 "Was sent to the Cumbernauld church" This woman decided to move to the Cumbernauld church as it was advised it would deepen spiritual life.

Answer - Again the Pastor told us to the congragation that you had been sent up to Cumbernauld. The pastor told us she had spoken to the pastor down there.

6 Can you please explain the rest of your statement {I watched, and the weeks past etc. and I was getting more convinced that she hadn’t been delivered. What do you mean by this.

Answer - I did not realise that you were getting more ill, because I didnt know you had Pulmonary Embolism mass of blood clots on your lungs. And as i have already explained to your husband a change in an individual's appearance without the benifit of any prior knowledge of ill health is generally thought to mean that any attempts at deliverance prior to this change has failed. Obviously at that time healing would have been more appropriate.

7 "One day SMC leader walked into the room and the woman was sitting practising witchcraft."
This is a totally blatant lie given by the SMC leadership to discredit this woman and obviously it worked as you believed it. As you know yourself and from others on this forum SMC leadership used this tactic regularly.
Answer- I didnt know they used that tactic at the time. After all why would a pastor lie?

9 What sermon?
Answer - The Sermon, part of it was where the pastor told us that she walked into the room and the woman was sitting practising witchcraft. Then she took you to the police station. I dont know the dates etc. Struthers records there Sunday meetings. So if you want to know more maybe you could ask for a copy, not sure how easy it would be to get a hold of one though.
10 "I think you know that Struthers are known for discernment. Where was the discernment there? "

Answer - There was obviously was no discernment there at all. That was my point.

I hope this anwsers your questions.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: April 05, 2011 01:46AM

LoveAlways, actually the last post by "out of it" was by the woman in question herself.

I think where your previous posts were merely reporting what the pastor said, and even what you visually observed, these things can be disputed
but are not likely to cause hurt or require that you put things right with this woman.

However once anyone here starts going into assessments, personal intuitions, judgements and the like - regarding other people, its to be expected that
people will be hurt and temperatures raised.

The fact is, like it or not we are all deeply fallible and prone to errors galore. I have already posted on what i consider the dangers of "faith games" where third parties are involved. We might all have "todd bentley" moments where we feel led to "push the boat out", but the amount of caution and self doubt that needs to take place when this "boat" involves someone else, should be tenfold the amount of caution - when the risk involved only refers to ourselves. Of course Todd Bentley ended up kicking an old woman in the stomach. And - just like struthers leaders, it seems no matter the scale of
error, these people find themselves back in ministry - even elevated in their "status" within their circle.

It is also a very sad but proven fact of human psychology, that the more a party is committed to a particular cultic position, the less likely they are
to change course - even when they have been shown publically to be in error. In fact what tends to happen is that brave detractors and "moderates" leave such organisations, leaving behind a hardened "core" of members, who despite all external evidence, become even more resistant to outside criticism. Although it refers to a UFO cult - i would reccomend taking heed of Leon Festingers study on how humans react when faced with new facts contradicting previously strongly held beliefs ( read "discernment" ? ) :

[en.wikipedia.org]

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: April 05, 2011 04:17AM

Quote
seekingsusan
LoveAlways, actually the last post by "out of it" was by the woman in question herself.

oops, facepalm and my mistake, re-reading your last post shows you clearly knew that.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: susie ()
Date: April 05, 2011 05:22AM

Dear out of it

I can only say again how sorry I am about your experiences at SMC, however its a good thing that lovealways has done. I will explain why. To start with she along with many others, were given false information about you. Now you are on this forum letting people know the truth about what really happened and that has to be a good thing. If more people would come on this forum and tell their story it would go a long way to helping others. You may not think this forum it is a good thing, but let me just say, for a long time I thought I was to blame for every bad thing that happened to me in SMC. Now thanks to the people on this sight, I can begin to heal and serve God again, that 's all I ever wanted to do. I have suffered as much as anyone emotionally/mentally/ physically/spiritually. I am so glad to have had this help. I am sorry that you do not seem to feel the same way. Maybe it's time to count your blessings. God bless you in every way.

Susie

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Chesterk55 ()
Date: April 05, 2011 10:59AM

Reply to post from Susie 4 April 11:22pm

I agree with Susie

There are 4 important points this exchange has brought out

1 Let's all remember who the bad guys are here. The Struthers Memorial Church leadership have caused this by ham fisted ministry displaying no evidence of love and due care. They mess people up and cover their tracks with self serving lies to control and manipulate those who remain. That seems to be agreed by both sides of this story and is consistent with a great deal of other testimony on this discussion.

2 Susie is absolutely correct. This forum is bringing at last the opportunity for justice, release from fear, and freedom into peoples lives and that is something many of us have indicated we value even if Out Of It sadly may no longer see it that way.

3 Once someone has shared a testimony and a life story in a public way in Struthers, which many of us have in the past, it is important that if we now see things differently we share that. This forum is the perfect place to do that. Sharing these experiences has been hugely therapeutic to those involved (based on what they have said themselves) and the very act of writing it out and putting it online is a declaration of willingness to confront the harm and those who harmed us in the past. Out Of It – when you were in Struthers you made a testimony public which you later saw differently. You were also spoken of unkindly after you left. The only person who can fully correct that record is you and now you have had the chance to do that. In your initial mail you indicated that you (as a couple) had been reading the forum but had not wanted to participate. That decision to remain silent as it turned out was not helpful to you or anyone else. I hope other people will now see the value of sharing the truth about what has happened to them and, if they choose not to, not to be surprised if someone else shares what they saw and heard which will inevitably be their best understanding of what happened.

4 Lovealways – thank you for sharing your information about the many lives damaged by Struthers in the church you were part of. Speaking for myself I appreciate your willingness to try to address the concerns raised by Out Of It so directly and with such public honestly. If only the Struthers leadership would try to emulate your example of addressing these kind of public questions directly hundreds of present and past members would be significantly helped.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: out of it ()
Date: April 05, 2011 10:09PM

I actually asked Rick Ross to remove the post, because I feel picked on here but he has said no and I can comment if I so like

So
Anyone else want to add anything. Seems as if I am not allowed to defend myself without a group standing against one(me). Very SMC like.
I do not applaud anything lovealways said especially when she is in hiding, remains anonymous and others through her have been forced out. Again to defend their name, integrity and tell the truth.

If you want honesty why not all stop hiding. Let everyone know who is saying what. Why not if it is true. What is the difference. I have had the guts to come forward and say it was all lies. No one else has

I suffered as well and still am because of the stuff written here. So please count your own blessings.

Yes I know a public testimony is public so please do not patronise me. If I knew yours maybe we could pick it to pieces as well. As mine has been.

I do not even know why I am bothering with this. Maybe I feel hard done by, maybe I feel bullied by a group and I am not going to accept it.
Maybe you all think you are different and have the right to pull another down not sure.
My point was------

A personal statement made by the lovealways before any involvement I had in Cumbernauld church not what the SMC leader said.What she said herself I was not convinced. No one seems to see that all you see is another person who was damaged by SMC leaders not towing your line.

Maybe you should all share your past testimonies and we can all state whether we felt God did do anything in your lives or not.
I personally was offended but that seems okay because it helps people heal not bothered about the one being talked about. The post in my eyes because it was about me was painful and very thoughtless. When I questioned although the poster asked if there were any questions I am told I should not be surprised.
You know what I am glad I walked out and away from the bigotry of SMC. I am glad I continued on with the Lord but I am not glad that again I am meeting the same tactics used by SMC to shut me up.
SMC leaders
We all know by now what they are like and what damage they have done but as you say if we continue to hide they will continue to achieve their goal.
How I feel
Why not all continue ganging up I am sure SMC followers and leaders are having a good laugh about this anyway. Again their words are echoed in my ears and mind. Attack one of us and you will pay.
Thanks to all who contributed to attacking my right to defend myself. Just like SMC leaders would do gang up and put them down, then build up the one who had been wrong. So thank you all.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: April 05, 2011 10:28PM

To whom it may concern:

Anyone that wishes to stay anonymous can of course remain anonymous if they wish.

There is nothing wrong with that.

Please avoid personal attacks against members of this board, which is off topic and against the rules.

Anyone here that is currently member and/or associated in some way with SMC should understand, that denigrating remarks and/or any attempt to cause problems on this thread, may result in being banned from this message board.

Please try to be sensitive concerning the feelings of people that post here and refrain from hurtful personal remarks.

The subject of this thread is SMC, not individuals that post here.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: oldskool ()
Date: April 05, 2011 11:05PM

hi to all.reading thro all your posts brings back a lot of memories for me,having been brought up in the church thro the 70's and 80's.....i have to say things haven't changed very much!i would say that quite tellingly 95% of my peer group(including myself) are no longer there. i have very happy memories of wiston lodge and the fun we all used to have there,alltho these are tempered with memories of sitting thro 5-6 hours of meetings a day,back then there were not allways youth meetings as today.
if you listen to some of the flowery descriptions of miss taylor that you will all have heard,she was the lords annointed,however growing up she absolutely terrified us all,very very intense with zero time for anyone not completely willing to bend to her will.this is where the control freakery (heavy sheperding)that you talk about comes from,todays leaders learned at the feet of a dictator!mr black was not in the driving seat at any time!
i was listening to mr black preach about 10-12 years ago when he claimed that his phobia ministry had a 95% success rate,does anyone know how he could substantiate that figure?as regards the comments about women ministry struthers has allways been driven by femine doctrine,the two main founders were women,as have all leaders since,with the exception of mr black alltho it could be argued he was leader only briefly between miss taylor and miss black.
Mr black was a lovely man in many ways,and alltho fundamentalist in his outlook i allways found him caring and approachable,by the sound of things todays congregation don't have that luxury with their leaders.
is television approved of now?when i was a young teenager there was a list of things miss taylor dissaproved of,t.v.,christmas trees,any shoppins on a sunday,make up,jeans(especially on girls!),perms,anything not bible related really.
i could go on for a long time,i have seen both sides of struthers in action,there are good people there and there are self-seeking aggressively ambitious sycophants there,allong with a few fundamentalist pharisees,i will let you work out which is which

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: seekingsusan ()
Date: April 06, 2011 02:43AM

Hi Out Of It,

I'll speak on my behalf alone, although i think everyone here will agree with this too.

I mean you no harm, and I hope nothing i have written was for some reason taken to be "ganging up" on you. Nothing i wrote was about you, but about lovealways, and I really believe she meant you no ill either.

All of us really appreciate you joining this forum,
So dry any tears and please accept a virtual hug from me ( and I'm sure - from the others here ).

I think we all understand how the manner of your "outing" here caused you hurt but we really ARE on your side!.

Really :)

Honest :-)

I have many of my family still attending Struthers, which is a continual cause of conflict and concern. From the first ever dealings with Struthers leadership years ago I always had deep suspicions that SMC had the makings of a cult. Oh, and yes - I have attended their meetings and conferences, attended camps etc. But thankfully I saw through it all at a very early stage and never became a member.

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