Treetop - I love it. I would also, in the spirit of Spartacus, be happy to say, "I am Latigo". Any other takers? Wouldn't it be great if we got 20 people to identify with the issues by all saying, "I am Latigo".

I would also like to briefly return to a point made earlier by SeekingSusan, and that is how struthers need to create an enemy to justify their position. I would be very interested to hear whether they do believe other Christian groups are the enemy. If so, does that mean that people from struthers will be the only ones in heaven, and why are some members exempt from this requirement, with Chris Jewell, one of the overall directors, writing articles for non-struthers Christian publications?

If other Christians are not the enemy, why not encourage members to visit other churches? Is it absolutely impossible that anyone else has anything to offer? Is that not as unlikely as it is arrogant?

I am Latigo!

I AM LATIGO!!!

Re The Petitor's post above, about whether other churches are seen as the enemy, we were continually told in SMC that it was not a good idea to visit other churches or outreaches, because, we were told, Christians in other churches were not living as holy lives and weren't as fully committed to Christ as SMC members and leaders were. I heard this said again and again from the platform and was also told it during personal counselling with SMC leaders. We were not allowed to put up posters or adverts for other churches or outreaches, although in more recent days, I believe some have been put up. The reason for not putting them on display, leaders told us, was that they could draw people away (from SMC) to other places, and they did not want this. Their twisted reasoning then propagated the idea that to leave and go elsewhere meant that someone was leaving their high calling in God to go an easier road. So that's why they see others as the enemy.
I am amazed that I actually swallowed this lie for many years, for that's what it is, it is a complete lie.

However, I know what you mean, Petitor, because there are SMC members who are involved with other groups, not so much other churches, but Christian groups and missions. However, I don't think the numbers who do so are very high and little is said publicly about their involvement and they are not normally prayed for during SMC prayer meetings, in my experience.

I don't think we need to know who Latigo is! as we're all anonymous, as someone else said. I am also very grateful for Latigo's research and writing of the articles on their site.

One reason the SMC leadership carry on as they do is simply because they can.

They remain unchallenged.

You know how sometimes you feel compelled by the Holy Spirit to stand up and pray, or say something , you know its Him because your heart beats like the clappers , etc what if He asked you to stand up in an SMC meeting and challenge a point of the "word" or just ask a question? would you do it?


Oh !! but its not done!! it would be rude!!! what would everyone think of me!!! its not allowed !!!

Thats why they carry on as they do, they are counting on no-one being" David"


I'm not sure you can be effective AND remain anonymous.

Hi folks

They seek him here they seek him there
"Latigo" tell if us you dare"
Are you on this forum along with the rest
telling your story with vigour and zest
are you still in struthers in the back row
quoting the leaders for this latigo?
are you on this forum like us in disguise
if we find who you are, will we be surprised
are you a lady or are you a gent?
I know your truth is heaven sent
I am sure we all would like to know
this blessed one called latigo"

Dear all,

My view is that it would be couter-productive to identify Latigo on this site (albeit anonymously through a “pen-name”). Not because it would in any way diminish what is said, but because it would strengthen the comments of one specific individual. This would create a sort of one-to-many relationship with Latigo at the top of the tree. But who put them there? Was there an election, and is there a way of removing them if they start abusing their power? The lack of democratic accountability is one of the main things I would criticise about Struthers, and is not the way I want to go here.

I would rather do my best to keep this forum a group of peers – all able to contribute on an equal basis. We already have a legitimate moderator, and I would not want to invest anyone else with any additional authority or kudos. What if someone identified themselves as Latigo and then put up a comment you disagreed with? Would you perhaps be a bit cautious about publicly disagreeing with their comment? If so, that creates an individual with more power than others. I strongly believe that comments should be judged by their content, not by who said them (which is of course the Struthers way).

Like others, I am really grateful to the Latigo site for drawing a lot of information together and putting it in the public domain. I would rather they were not identified here however, even by a pen-name. We can all still discuss latigo articles if we wish, but we do so on an equal basis, and cannot be overruled in our comments or conclusions. Sure, latigo can do what they like, but they are not then directly influencing others, seeking to persuade them they have taken the right approach. They are simply doing their own thing and it is up to each individual to decide whether they agree or disagree with any articles. That seems democratic enough to me.

This also means that any individual can emerge as a key conrtibutor on this forum, then can perhaps slip into the background and let others come forward. At the moment, latigo could get run over by a number 66 bus and the articles and this discussion would remain. If latigo became a lynch-pin of discussions here, if could stifle real debate and could cause discontinuities in the discussion if that one identified individual happened to be unavailable for comment.

So, my plea to latigo is do not create a link with any name on this forum, just get on with what you do best. We can talk about any articles if we wish and can even email you with individual or collective comments if required.

The only thing is this leaves me feeling a bit like I am leaving them with all the responsibility, which is why I really liked the "I am Latigo" comment which allowed us all to identify with what was said. I still think that was the best answer. If we all identified with latigo, we would all still be equals but would be lending our personal support to the contribution the site was making.

In reply to Clare above:
I'm not sure how long you were part of SMC or when, but quite a number of contributors to this Forum were in SMC for many years and were deeply involved in it. I know this has been covered in previous months on this Forum, but what I'd like to say is, we have asked the leaders questions, we have queried things that were spoken from the platform, we have asked for clarification on teaching we didn't understand, we have asked leaders to help us become stronger more committed Christians, we have told leaders of our aspirations and desires to serve God, we have spoken out. It HAS been done, but it hasn't made the leaders alter their stance one bit. All it led to was the questioner being the anonymous but obvious subject of the next week's Sunday sermon and accordingly being held in a bad light by the leaders, as well as being shunned and ignored in the ensuing weeks.

There is a good article on the Latigo site about the issue of Questions and how the SMC leaders view and deal with questions from members. If you read it, Clare, you will get answers as to why questioning has done no good and achieved nothing so far, in terms of showing the leaders where they're going wrong.

To all contributors here, I feel there are reasons why we remain anonymous here and it doesn't matter to me who is who. Each of us requires privacy so we need to allow others to have privacy too. We're on here to support one another and help people who are still trying to leave SMC. We need to remember those who are still trapped and deceived.

Rensil, hello,
I realise by reading your post that i tend to have an oversimplistic attitude and that what might seem like the obvious to me is not necessarily do-able at grass roots level.
My contact with SMC was mainly through a woman leader of a house group in England. She was heavily into them. I cant of course claim the same experiences as a lot of you BUT i can promise you that the same jugemental attitude filters down , the same confusion, the same feeling of not being up to their holiness standards, the same idea that to be single is the highest way so if you are in a relationship of any sort, included married you are automatically a second class christian. I can identify with all the negativity of which you all talk about. I have read All the articles on the Latigo site and shall continue doing so. I was just reading the posts about Kirkby too.

I have a problem understanding how they can carry on the way they do if they are genuine seekers after God. In my experience when you genuinely seek the truth God enables you to find it sooner or later, ( stumbling onto this forum being an example) , but then humility is required ,and they dont have any so it seems . Accountability in any language they would also not understand.

I'm sorry to suggest things you have obviously already done, i didnt know of course.

Dear all

Please find enclosed email to Latigo and the reply I received. For those of you who have not noticed, I suspect the opening statement "we have been busy recently" refers to additional articles posted on the Latigo website.

ThePetitor
=======

Dear Latigo,

As you might have noticed, there is some speculation on the RickRoss site about the identity of latigo. If you want to make any comment, I would be happy to post this on the RR forum.


Albus Petitor
-----------------------
Dear The Petitor

Thank you for drawing our attention to this. We have been busy recently. And thank you to those who have been appreciative of the Latigo214 articles. No one here is immune to encouragement, so thank you all.

Latigo214 is not one person. As indicated on the website it is a team. Some of the people involved may choose to post on the Rick Ross forum and some may choose not to.

That being the case for someone to name themselves as "the Latigo poster" would neither be accurate nor helpful. You are quite right to point out that the views and opinions of people involved in Latigo214 have no more validity on this forum than anyone else’s. If anything in the articles we have put online is helpful that will be because it is true – not because of who we are.

There has been enormous value in the fact that this forum exploded into life in a remarkable way which was simultaneous - within a few days – of the first Latigo214 articles going online. Clive will be able to confirm that there was no connection between his first post – the second on the forum - and the start of Latigo214. They were simultaneous expressions of the same genuine concern which had remained unshared publicly for far too long.

That both forums have been running together has allowed for the sharing of personal stories, experiences and views via Rick Ross; and on Latigo214 the space to examine in necessary detail some of the publicly available documents and sermons from Struthers Memorial Church, shining a light on their own public statements. Our aim has been to publicly highlight the many alarming questions these raise. The evidence so far is that both forums are valued and meeting a real need in people. It is our hope that they both continue as long as that need exists.

There is also growing evidence that the online scrutiny is having an effect both on the leadership and the attendees of Struthers.

It is the case that some people share on the Rick Ross forum information and testimony which would make them relatively easily identifiable to some readers. That being the case if people who contribute to Latigo214 and who may want to post on the forum want to keep that link private - for the reasons explained on the website - we think that is reasonable and should be respected.

As Rensil has pointed out, we have tried to raise these problems face to face for years and the SMC leadership paid no attention whatsoever and just carried on their own sweet way. They may not know exactly who we are but they do know us all and they know we all left unhappy and badly hurting. Not one word of concern or care about that fact has yet been expressed by any one of them.

That is the real issue. Whether we are anonymous or not, that remains the real issue. If at some point our anonymity is dropped, that will make no difference to the work we do, but we prefer issues to be debated on their merit, and do not want to introduce the distraction of who said what at this time.

If Clive's view is however confirmed as the consensus of those posting on the Rick Ross forum – that there is some problem with being a poster on the Rick Ross forum and also involved as a contributor to Latigo214 – we are sure that those involved can decide to be one or the other. W are however not sure what value that would add.

As things stand we can already - to quote Clive - "all discuss the Latigo questions here" – can't we?

The team at latigo214