[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
Stoic
Davejc seems to have a psychic affinity to known paedophile offenders masquerading as holy men.

[jcs.xjcs.org]

'The point was that anti-cult individuals and groups use anonymity to disguise illegal things that they do, and they excuse the anonymity on the basis of concocted fears about reprisals against themselves.'

In his latest argument to prove the world-wide conspiracy against him and his attempt to get the personal information of his current targets, he argues against anonymity and cites Sai Baba as an example of a harmless holy man that no-one needs to hide from.

The 'really clever' Davejc was able to spot that something was wrong because:

[jcs.xjcs.org]

..........' Sai Baba, a very highly respected Indian holy man. He rather obviously knows how to do a few magic tricks where he pretends to produce souvenir trinkets out of the air, and he makes a lot of money, mostly from his wealthy western followers. But there is no such thing as members being harmed because parents disagree with the group.'

[www.kevinrdshepherd.net]

Sai Baba has a well-documented history of multiple accusations of paedophile assault of young boys against him and the very curious and still unsolved case of the violent murder of 4 of his boy attendants and two guards in his bedroom some years ago. The Indian officials who looked into these cases turned out to be either devotees or on the payroll in some way, according to local reporting:

[www.saibaba-x.org.uk]

The late, noted Indian sceptic B Premanand researched the Sai Baba org:

[www.kevinrdshepherd.net]

'Premanand has referred to many alleged murders on the websites associated with his Indian Skeptic journal. He has said that he survived only because of his prominence. He has filed several unsuccessful lawsuits against the guru, who has very strong support from devotees and sympathisers in prominent positions. Premanand has stated “I have the records of more than a hundred persons destroyed by the Sathya Sai Baba gang, beginning with one Mr. Venkatamuni of Madras who was done away at Madurai in an air conditioned room and then (after getting death certificates from doctors) taken to Madras by Sathya Sai Baba in his own car and cremated without giving any information to the police.”

Premanand refers to deaths by car accidents, heart failure, poisoning, hanging, and drowning. A number of these deaths were officially interpreted as suicides. In the same entry, Premanand refers to “hundreds of such deaths.” Even if that be considered an exaggeration, the implications are extremely grave and merit due examination to the extent possible. See the entry “Suicides, Deaths, Missing persons covered–up at Prashanti Nilayam ashram,” comprising arresting information available at [www.saibaba-x.org.uk]. The grim factor of despair or stress causing suicide is mentioned in some accounts.'

And, as they say in the infomercials, there's much, much, more.
Any sane person who incurred Sai Baba's displeasure would be wise to hide from him.

Such elevated holy company Davejc seeks to align himself with in an effort to silence a critical response on a forum.
Really clever or just really ignorant?

Something also that I am wondering, when Davejc claims to be in hiding--who exactly is he hiding from, disgruntled ex-members or possibly the Australian investigators of welfare and tax fraud?

Susan, I would like to be able to get along with you, and I would like to be able to make the peace between the two of us, but frankly I do not really care if you like me or not. I am not here to try and gain your approval.

You spend as much time bitching about me as about Dave, and I don't get it. Whose side are you on here?

To me, very little of this is personal; it's all about business.

Please write me at your convenience, and I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from cursing at me and calling me names like "little bitch boy" in our future email exchanges. The last time you wrote me, Susan, you called me a little bitch. That's not nice. When did I ever talk like that to you? Calling me a little bitch, now that is a personal attack if there ever was one.

I don't know if you realize it or not, but in one of your abusive emails to me, you referred to me as "Dave." My name is not Dave. My name is Brian.

I still have a copy, and if you'd like me to show you I'll forward it back to you.

If you are not willing to write me privately (feel free to call me, too; remember, you have my number but I don't have yours) then I'd you to ask Nick to give me access to XJCs after all, so that I can defend myself in the very place where I am constantly being discussed and defamed.

Does Dave McKay believe that Moses David Berg was a true prophet of God?

Or does Dave McKay believe that Moses David Berg was a pedophilic, alcoholic, narcissistic, occultist false prophet?

Has he ever categorically renounced Berg, the COG/Family, and everything that they stand for?

That's what I'd like to see from him. A categorical repudiation and renunciation of the COG/Family and everything related to them.

Quote
zeuszor
Or does Dave McKay believe that Moses David Berg was a pedophilic?

If you ask McKay this question he will skirt around the issue. He will never categorically state that David Berg was a paedophile. We must remember this is a man who has a very soft approach towards paedophile's. Alot of children have been abused because of this man's soft approach towards paedophile's.

Some of my best friends grew up in the Family.

If you'd heard what I've heard, directly from the second-gen ex-members who grew up in the Jumbo, Thailand, places like that, then you would have nothing but complete and total disgust and utter contempt for David Berg and his demonic legacy.

Davejc is a user, through and through, so it is immaterial what he believes about Moses David Berg, god, Jesus or anyone or anything else for that matter.
All he sees is a method that he can use for his own profit and that is all that registers with him. When it no longer profits him he will drop that and find something else, just as he drops people when they are of no longer use to him.
Trying to 'relate' to him as a normal human being, to appeal to some 'better self' is pointless--as the user is all there is.

He is a user and nothing else.

It really is a waste of time to try to 'understand' him in any other way, as, no matter how inhuman and unacceptable this may seem, there is nothing else to understand.
Even the odd times that he can be civil and kind, it is a calculated civility and kindness which is an attempt to get his mark to drop their guard so that he can better use them.

He is a conman, and probably has been since a very young age, no matter what fond memories people might have had of a younger Davejc with some integrity. People with some smidgeon of integrity don't set out to play god and hoodwink their fellows into indentured slavery. There is no point in looking for excuses for the man, there aren't any. He consciously chose his path in life and has not wavered once.

Apollo, you asked if he was mentally ill or just a nasty piece of work--he is both, and content to be both. Were he not content he would change.
He is every bit as black hearted as all those others that he so admires, Moses David Berg, Sai Baba, Jim Jones--apart from the numbers hoodwinked, you couldn't put a pin between them



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2011 05:52PM by Stoic.

Its not what Davejc claims to believe about Moses David Berg, Sai Baba et al that tells you what is in his head--it is what he does after studying their method.

'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.'

What Davejc values above all else is those peoples ability to con people and get away with it. He has dedicated his life to nothing else.

Excerpted from Judith Herman's amazing and seminal work, Trauma and Recovery:

It is very tempting to take the side of the perpetrator. All the perpetrator asks is that the bystander do nothing. He appeals to the universal desire to see, hear, and speak no evil. The victim, on the contrary, asks the bystander to share the burden of the pain. The victim demands action, engagement, and remembering. . . .

In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. Secrecy and silence are the perpetrator's first line of defense. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure that no one listens. To this end, he marshals an impressive array of arguments, from the most blatant denial to the most sophisticated and elegant rationalization. After every atrocity one can expect to hear the same predictable apologies: it never happened; the victim lies; the victim exaggerates; the victim brought it on herself; and in any case it is time to forget the past and move on. The more powerful the perpetrator, the greater is his prerogative to name and define reality, and the more completely his arguments prevail.

Now, there is no evidence indicating that Dave McKay is a child molester, a pedophile, or anything of the sort, and I for one do not believe that he is such a person.

There is, however, evidence indicating that Dave McKay is a friend to, and sympathizes with, pedophiles and others who groom children for the purposes of their own perverse sexual gratification. Only difference is, Dave McKay has a predilection for grooming and recruiting of youth for the purposes of his own emotional gratification.

The way in which he minimizes the depravities (sexual and otherwise) of Moses David Berg is the most telling indicator of this attitude on his part.

I am not saying that I think that Dave McKay is a sex offender (because there is no evidence of that, and in fact I personally do not believe that he is) but I am saying that it seems as if there are a lot of the same thought processes at work in his mind, that are also at work in the minds of sexual offenders.

His sense of entitlement, his tendency to assert that his victims somehow deserved or wanted to be treated as they were (or are), and his tendency to constantly attempt to define reality for others, it's all there. Different behaviors, but the same thought processes at work behind them.

He will promote secrecy with respect to what has happened within the JCs in the past in general, and in terms of sexual abuse of children specifically.

He will vociferously attack the credibility the victims of his own malignant self-love through all manner of ad hominem attacks, and as a well the victims of the past (and perhaps present-day) sexual offenders who are a part of his group (assuming that they still are a group).

He plays various sides and factions surrounding the JC debate against one another; the effect of this is that nobody is willing to listen to anybody else anymore, so much distrust gets sown.

He will deny, he will lie, he will rationalize, he will minimize; in sum, he is trying to manipulate and/or intimidate everybody involved in this thing to participate in his conspiracy of silence, and (in the context of this thread) specifically with respect to incidences of child sexual abuse that has taken place withing the group that he is ostensibly the Apostle of.

With respect to certain ex-members who know the identitiy of X: I can understand their reluctance, but unfortunately their not speaking out is what allows McKay to keep getting away with everything. This is the simple bottom line.

Frankly, from where I sit I see this as enabling DM to do what he does, and I have a hard time respecting anybody's silence with respect to not reporting known instances of sexual abuse, whether they were perpetrated in or out of the group proper. It's hard for me to respect their silence, but I have to.

But because McKay knows all the ex-members' details, he can use information if they speak out against him.

Funny though, that he now says he doesn't know John's identity.

As soon as James started posting against him, he knew James' surname right away! And I'll bet if John started posting, Dave would quickly remember his surname too!

FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE "JESUS CHRISTIANS" AND DAVE MCKAY PLEASE ALSO SEE:

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2011 03:22AM by zeuszor.

'If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure that no one listens. To this end, he marshals an impressive array of arguments, from the most blatant denial to the most sophisticated and elegant rationalization. After every atrocity one can expect to hear the same predictable apologies: it never happened; the victim lies; the victim exaggerates; the victim brought it on herself; and in any case it is time to forget the past and move on. The more powerful the perpetrator, the greater is his prerogative to name and define reality, and the more completely his arguments prevail. '


This is such an accurate description of the modus operandi of a predator attempting to hide his predation, and aptly describes Davejc's behaviour.

Someone on the xJC's has said that it is no longer about the JC's, it only all about Davejc.
In fact, it always was only ever all about Davejc, its just that now those who were previously conned into believing that it was about some greater glory are beginning to see the reality of the motivating force, Davejc's narcissism.
Its a tough thing to accept that one has been so comprehensively conned, so used by another in the name of god, but its not the end of the world, just the end of the con, and the end of unrealistic dreams.

Clarity comes next, after disillusionment, for those who want it.

Quote
Stoic
'If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure that no one listens. To this end, he marshals an impressive array of arguments, from the most blatant denial to the most sophisticated and elegant rationalization. After every atrocity one can expect to hear the same predictable apologies: it never happened; the victim lies; the victim exaggerates; the victim brought it on herself; and in any case it is time to forget the past and move on. The more powerful the perpetrator, the greater is his prerogative to name and define reality, and the more completely his arguments prevail. '


This is such an accurate description of the modus operandi of a predator attempting to hide his predation, and aptly describes Davejc's behaviour.

Someone on the xJC's has said that it is no longer about the JC's, it only all about Davejc.
In fact, it always was only ever all about Davejc, its just that now those who were previously conned into believing that it was about some greater glory are beginning to see the reality of the motivating force, Davejc's narcissism.
Its a tough thing to accept that one has been so comprehensively conned, so used by another in the name of god, but its not the end of the world, just the end of the con, and the end of unrealistic dreams.

Clarity comes next, after disillusionment, for those who want it.

Yes.

The cult he runs is little more than his mirror, an externalization of his own temperament, his alter-ego.

It's always been all about Dave McKay, and nothing about Jesus. They may as well have called it the McKay Christians.