Here is a conversation, yesterday from the Butler thread. The conversation took place between rrmoderator and zeuszor.

If anyone receives private messages, PMs that they feel concerned about, send them directly to rrmoderator.

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[forum.culteducation.com]

From rrmoderator July 30, 2013 07:08AM

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To whom it may cocnern:

Zeuszor, who has identified himself publicly on this message board as Brian Birmingham, called me yesterday and admitted he still works with Steve Hassan.

Apparently he and Hassan are currently collaborating on an "intervention" case that has been in the "preparation" phase for about a year. For those that are not well-acquainted with Steve Hassan's intervention approach he often subjects families to months of so-called "preparation," which can be quite costly. Hassan's fees run from $250 to $500 hourly and his daily rate ranges from $2,500 to $5,000.

Families have complained that they have drained 401k accounts and taken out second mortgages to pay Hassan with little tangible results. Hassan does not publicly post his fee schedule and will not disclose his success rate regarding intervention work.

Steve Hassan routinely relies upon others to help and/or enable him. In this scenario others work with him as a "team." In this team approach the family pays additional fees and expenses to others involved with Hassan.

In my opinion Steve Hassan's approach is unethical. And I would not recommend either Hassan or his books to anyone for anything at any time.

Sorry to go off topic, but Zeuszor has taken up posting here lately and he did attempt to mislead people on this thread in a previous post stating that he no longer works with Hassan.

Zeuszor July 30, 2013 07:44AM

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That's just not true, Rick. I have not spoken with Steve since April, and have not even seen him in person in almost a year.

[Moderator note: Brian Birmingham (aka Zeuszor) in an unsolicited phone call yesterday said that he is currently working on an intervention case led by Steve Hassan.]

From rrmoderator July 30, 2013 09:00AM

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To whom it may concern:

There will be no more off topic posts regarding "Zeuszor" on this thread.

Zeuszor does not have pre-approved status. All of his posts are therefore moderated.

My purpose in posting about Zeuszor here was to make sure that members of the message board posting at this thread were not in any way being misled.

People have trolled and posed at this message board in a number of ways, often attempting to exploit and/or subvert threads.

Moderation has been done to hold such noise and interference to a minimum.

Thank you for your patience and understanding on this issue.

I've received several answers via PMs to my questions, with permission to post them here:

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Anonymous
Q. I'm, curious about this Kali reference i keep hearing about. What's the deal with that. Does Guru G claim to be some incarnation or somesuch of Kali?

A. Kali is some sort of Hindu god or demi-god. Kali the Destroyer, specifically, is Swami G's declared "embodiment". Her big thing is that she is the "destroyer of ego", just as Kali. And when she is very angry (and "crazy wisdom" excuses just won't cut it), she uses the excuse that Kali is working through her and is the one that is angry. It's quite odd. She has Kali tattoos and Kali "stuff" covering every inch of her house. I don't know much about Hindu gods or demi-gods, but it just seems to be one more reason for Swami G to justify her behavior by claiming that Kali is the energy that works through her. (Lord - - the further I get away from it all and the longer the time away, the crazier it all looks. Ugh!)

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Anonymous
Q. Also, one more question: Would you say that there was an obsessive demand to confess things to Guru G? How were these disclosures used?

A. It's really a strange set-up. A) her "ashram" is really nothing more than online Yahoo groups. Everyone is expected to post weekly (at one point it was daily) "progress reports". These typically include how your "practices" are going, any experiences you are having and what may be difficult or great in your life. The more you share the more you are considered "surrendered to Guru and/or God", so the expectation is that those that share the most are considered the "most advanced". B) Also, those she takes in close to her share even more of their personal life with her, as her big thing is: "Guru should know everything about you so she can help you". It's strange in that she'll complain people want her to solve their problems or act like her children, yet she demands as much. C) What typically happens when someone leaves or is booted for either bringing up concerns or not doing what she says is that she uses whatever they have shared as weapons against them or to justify why they are "lost in dellusion". (ie: "You have always been a spoiled brat, like with your parents, so it is no surprise that you are acting up here." ... though, it's usually far worse and more personal than that. She has no problem using people's own info against them or as a way to show the remaining members: "See... THEY are the crazy ones and this is why they are questioning me." That followed by a farewell condemnation usually seals the deal.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2013 01:48AM by psyborgue.

I would like to say that there is a very beautiful, peaceful, enlightened side to many of Guru Swami G's teachings. I mean God, the Guru Swami G that talks about having compassion on people and having compassion on homosexuals and not judging people who are not causing others harm is very beautiful. The videos of Guru Swami G saying it is wrong that people are celebrating the killing of Osama Bin Laden strikes one that is truly compassionate.

Also, I'd like to say I edited some of the e-mail that she sent and cut out the part where she said that she wishes me well and gives other advice etc.

When I said I was a former student as well, I have never really met her but was enamored by her Youtube videos and the teachings that I found on there.

I think some of what I wrote against her previously may not have been exactly authentic because it was in a state of wanting to get back at her for an imagined threat against me. In fact, she has never really said anything very harsh against me to my knowledge and I made a one time donation of $15 at my own wish. Not very much at all.

I personally DO NOT believe that Guru Swami G is doing this to make money. In fact, if she wanted to make money I have no doubt she has MORE than enough musical talent to have become famous in that way or with her own art. In fact, she has one of the most beautiful voices. To my knowledge she is not even selling her music, instead I see videos of her performing for elderly people. Why choose to be a Shaktipat Guru that does not even charge for courses as many people do in other place? So, I believe she is 100% honest when she says she's not making some killer money off of her devotees.. Even if she is.. anyone who understands the Guru/disciple path knows the compassion the guru awakens in their disciples. Trust me, she is not Jim Jones with poison hiding to kill the devotees in case someone comes to liberate them from a killer death cult. lol.

The reason that made me leave was for me saying that I disagreed with Guru Swami G on the yahoo group when Guru Swami G exposed some of the Dalai Lamas former abuses. I disagreed and when I was told wrong I said that I still disagreed and that is the reason I was kicked out of both yahoo groups. So not a big deal.

As for her releasing information from counseling sessions.. If people leave the path and try to defame what is the problem with releasing some of their information? Guru Swami G did not do anything illegal in my opinion and I guarantee that there will be no lawsuits against her for that. lol

With all this said Guru Swami G is not my guru.. I'm not interested in her being my Guru as I'm sure she is not interested in me as a disciple. The reason why I'm' saying this is to set the record straight and to speak honestly without having an agenda but of honesty.

So for any twisting of the truth that I have done against Swami G I apologize to her for that and wish her and her devotees well on the path to self realization and moksha.



Jai Maha Kali Maa!
Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu

OM shanti shanti shant

NicholasRehl:

Your recent post reads like a rehearsed and scripted statement.

Have you become a Swami G. apologist?

Seems like that's your purpose here now.

For purposes of comparison--here is the earlier post by Nicholas Rehl.

July 26, 2013 08:36PM

[forum.culteducation.com]

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I formerly was a student of "Guru" "Swami" G and was apart of both of the Yahoo groups.. both groups of which were found on her website. One of which I know for sure has been deleted out of this persons cowardice and not wanting to take accountability and responsibility for her words.

"Guru" Swami G is well known for her drama and negativity approach to teaching her students. She is a person that is not afraid to cuss people out or kick them out even right after she takes their money.

[www.youtube.com]

You only need to watch this video 6 minutes.. The first minute she claims she has NOTHING to do with the finances of the donations from her website.. Within the next 5 minutes she is claiming that most donations were $10 or $15 then she's going through listing particular devotees that gave $100 etc. The lies of "Guru" Swami G have finally caught up with her. Unfortunately for many, including myself I was duped far too long.

The reason that she initially kicked me out of her little yahoo groups was for my mere disagreeing with her concerning other spiritual leaders that she attacked.

This is the e-mail she sent concerning why she deleted me from the yahoo group which she now deleted because she is such a coward that she won't even take account and responsibility for the words she has spoken in this group obviously for possible legal reasons.

> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 01:55:21 +0000
> From: crystalkundalini@hotmail.com
> To: anyeong_ha_se_yo@hotmail.com
> Subject: Your Posts
>
>
> Namaste
>
> Don't come and
> disrespect the Guru. Being that you think
> that's ok this is not the place for you. Just
> as it's not allowed on the Tibetan path it's
> not going to happen here.

> Enjoy your belief systems and your opinions



I also recently sent her another e-mail on Facebook asking her why she has so much negativity and drama with her videos.

Conversation started today


Nicholas Rehl
Hi ma'am,
I'd like to ask you why there is so much negativity and drama in your videos?


Why can't you just follow the path instead of criticizing others?


Why do you focus so much energy on drama instead of healing through compassionate work.. feeding the hungry, helping the poor, etc. like all true Gurus do.


Do you believe you are a Guru?

I love you dear embodied soul and pray for you and pray that you can uplift the ones you are teaching and deal with the negativity.

Please do not be angry or misunderstanding that I wrote this message. I hope you understand why I write this message.

Take a good look at yourself and do not judge others.

Also, I am aware that you wrongfully accuse Paramahamsa Sri Nithyananda of things and you have said that all of his followers must have something wrong with him and thus judged hundreds of thousands of people of whom many I personally know have devoted themselves to selfless service.


There is too much karma in ignorance ma'am.


I pray that you may come clean about your own lies and stop abusing people with your words and beliefs. This is my only request of you dear. Stop your judgments of good people and just have compassion and you will do well and your ignorance will be destroyed.


Jai Maha Kali Maa!
Lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu.

OM shanti shanti shanti


Her response:

Guru Swami G
Do you know the karma you make for yourself in writing to a Guru in this fashion ? Would you write to Kali in this way ? I do not accuse him in any way falsely i KNOW him full well and you are in delusion. You are well to heed your words about to much karma in ignorance as you are building yourself quite a debt of it in writing to here in this manner. OM

It is really sad that this woman cannot just follow a path that she has to slander, curse, and hiss the things that come out of her mouth is unfortunate. She is a proven liar and she talks about her students that do counseling which is very sad that she thinks that is okay.


I hope people can think twice before they trust the woman that goes by the alias "Guru Swami G"

Note: by the rules of Aristotelian formal logic something is either true or not true.

Somethng cannot be true and not-true at the same time.

This is the logic that undergirds consensus reality in the West. And in journalism and law.

[forum.culteducation.com]

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It is really sad that this woman cannot just follow a path that she has to slander, curse, and hiss the things that come out of her mouth is unfortunate. She is a proven liar and she talks about her students that do counseling which is very sad that she thinks that is okay.


I hope people can think twice before they trust the woman that goes by the alias "Guru Swami G"

Apparently Smai G. spends some time reading this thread and encouraging people to troll here.

Would the "guru" really be better off investing time in her purported "musical talent" instead of spreading "enlightenment"?

At the Swami G Web site if you look under "Latest Videos" (see [www.guruswamig.com] ) she features some of her singing performances.

The best that I can say is that she is not horrible, but this is hardly something that G would do if "she wanted to make money."

It's easy to understand why Swami G decided to go into enlightenment rather than entertainment as a business to make money.

It appears though from her posted videos that G is somewhat of a frustrated singer using her guru gig to perform.

A bit strange.

BTW -- Be sure to watch the video "Leaving" in which Swami G rants rather than sings about those that have decided to dump her. She really doesn't like that "bullshit."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2013 09:02PM by rrmoderator.

Let me set the record straight about something.

I was in no way whatsoever coerced by Guru Swami G into scripting a statement for her. Actually, thank you for the laugh for the one who messaged me and asked that question. And no! I am not an apologist for Guru Swami G now. I do finally see she is a SatGuru. That doesn't help her! Our words could NEVER harm a Satguru OR benefit a Satguru for that matter.

Guru Swami G recently blocked me from Facebook because of the messages I was formerly sending to her. I have been watching the videos of Guru Swami G just to find "dirt" on her.. and during watching one I received a transmission. It is a bit difficult to discuss here what a transmission is to those who have no understanding of a true spiritual path. So the transmission itself shifted my consciousness in a way that allowed for 'scales' that had been over my eyes to be removed.

Let me also explain more in detail why I was removed from Guru Swami G's yahoo groups

Firstly, people are already told before they enter the yahoo group that they are not to bring in a set of beliefs. Unfortunately, I did just that. I had a set of beliefs about the Dalai Lama being some Boddhisatva. When I posted that about the Dalai Lama a Sadhaka of Guru Swami G's informed me that Guru Swami G teaches he has had past abuses and is not enlightened because of different abuses. Instead of being honest and searching to see if the Dalai Lama actually did have these abuses I argued and then said Guru Swami G is wrong and then said something to the effect of asking or saying if she thought she was God to judge a man such as the Dalai Lama. Many people don't even have a chance to be within 10 miles of a Satguru let alone have direct communication with one. For that I was sent out of the yahoo group for the disrespect. That's what it was disrespect. The simple request of not having belief systems was enough but I wanted to hold onto them.

So the real e-mail reads like this:

> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 01:55:21 +0000
> From: crystalkundalini@hotmail.com
> To: anyeong_ha_se_yo@hotmail.com
> Subject: Your Posts
>
>
> Namaste
>
> You are wished well but you don't come and
> disrespect the Guru. Being that you think
> that's ok this is not the place for you. Just
> as it's not allowed on the Tibetan path it's
> not going to happen here.
>
> Enjoy your belief systems and your opinions
> but contrary to the pedestal you have the
> dalai lama on - you are sadly mistaken.
>
> Enlightenment does not mean one believes
> themselves to be a God by any means. There
> is no one that remains in a story to be a God
> or a separation and attached to form nor with
> a mind that is engaged in the drama of life.
> Unfortunately you don't have any idea of what
> Enlightenment is or is not. You are very young
> and have barely begun on a spiritual journey.
> But before you dig yourself a hole it's better you
> go and get a bit more reality in place about what
> a genuine path is and is not.
>
> Maybe read Dangerous Friend.
>
>
>
> OM Shanti


After I wrote the apology last night within about 10 minutes a floodgate of energy just came rushing in and I could literally feel an immense transmission taking place. I'm very happy I did what I did because what I was formerly doing against Sat Guru Swami G had in fact caused my own self harm in the first place.

NicholasRehl:

So Swami G "is a SatGuru" and the Dalai Lama is "not enlightened." And Swami G not only sings, she somehow can also send out "transmissions" and you received an "immense transmission."

You are now preaching beliefs, which is against the rules that you agreed to before posting at this message board.

You claim, "words could NEVER harm a Satguru OR benefit a Satguru," nevertheless you keep posting your apologies.

But why keep posting if words don't matter?

NicholasRehl,

You say you believe that words could not harm a SatGuru. It sounds like a SatGuru is an enlightened, peaceful person who shrugs off criticism, however false or injust. I'm just having trouble applying that to Guru G. She's shown again and again in the past, as you admit, that she will attack others and release personal information about them. Wouldn't an enlightened Guru turn the other cheek? It sounds to me like words must harm her, otherwise she woudn't respond. And if her responses are evidence that she has been harmed by words, than by your own definition she cannot be a SatGuru. Can you explain this contradiction to me as I'm having trouble reconciling all this?

From what i'm reading you seem to be implying that in order to join Guru G's group, you cannot hold any opinions that are contrary to the Guru's views, and doing so constitutes "disrespect". Am I correct in reading what you've said that way? Is any disagreement with the Guru ever OK?

My impression (First Amendment protected) is that once a person becomes Swami G's student, that person is treated as her property.

Cross the line to become her student -- the line vanishes after you walk across it.

There appears to be no provision for leaving in a manner that is courteous and dignified.

After all, property cannot make decisions for itself.

The only ways to leave G appear to be:

Become a devalued object and be discarded by Swami G

Regain personhood by deciding to leave -- and then encounter the treatment described here on this message board by others who have left.

My advice to anyone currently with G and who wants to leave is: consider this is similar

Say nothing to anyone about your plan to leave.

You may feel you owe G or someone else an explanation. You owe nothing of the sort. Thats implanted guilt, talking.

Do not tell anyone you are leaving. Not even your friends in the group.
If you tell them, they may tell G and ruin your plan for a quiet escape.

So, keep your decision to yourself and leave. Trust that your friends may witness the blow up and decide on their own to follow you.

Extract yourself. If you need to use a taxi, or other local transport, dont tell the driver. Talk about innocuous topics that reveal nothing about yourself. Keep quiet until you are back in your home city or town.

Change your phone numbers and contact information. If you are sent letters you are under no obligation to open them or reply. You are your own person now. You owe G nothing at all.

Get legal advice, show your advisor the material on this thread and get advice on what to do if confidential information about you is put up on social media.

If you come here to this message board, welcome. If you get any Private Messages (PMs) from people seeking personal information, dont reply.

Send those to Rickor post them right here on the thread.