Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: April 25, 2010 03:24AM
The James Ray teaser page, free sample of his forthcoming radio podcast:
[jamesray.com]
He is going to teach his listeners to 'live in the flow' as he does, without a thought of the future or the past. He is going to hold their hands and work on his own problems of 'living in the flow' while teaching them to get the results he has so far gotten. He is not actually going to address any real world problems, like his behaviour or the charges he faces, he is just going to work on changing the perception of the real world problems he faces. What an operator. Of course he is not so far gone in 'living in the flow' that he fails to bill your credit card (for the forseeable future) for this pap or that he fails to attach a copyright threat to the end of his words of wisdom.
[jamesray.com]
He is going to teach his listeners to 'live in the flow' as he does, without a thought of the future or the past. He is going to hold their hands and work on his own problems of 'living in the flow' while teaching them to get the results he has so far gotten. He is not actually going to address any real world problems, like his behaviour or the charges he faces, he is just going to work on changing the perception of the real world problems he faces. What an operator. Of course he is not so far gone in 'living in the flow' that he fails to bill your credit card (for the forseeable future) for this pap or that he fails to attach a copyright threat to the end of his words of wisdom.
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: April 25, 2010 07:53AM
Warning
I should add, having provided the link to Death Ray's teaser page, that I began to sign up for his show. The almost freebie $2 payment for the first month seemed a worthwhile cost to find out what he was up to prior to his trial. There is a mandatory checkbox on the sign up form and that box is an agreement that you have read the terms and conditions of service. However there are no terms and conditions of service available to be read or agreed to before you input your credit card details.
Sneaky old James. Only the very keen and those naively expecting an honourable treatment would check the box and surrender their credit card details without reading the terms of service.
A neat little filter to filter out the more suspicious--or those who have previously been caught by a forced continuity scam. Once he has your credit card details you'll probably find yourself locked into a long contract if you change your mind and decide not to continue. Only then you will be shown the terms of service that were agreed to and checked sight unseen.
I should add, having provided the link to Death Ray's teaser page, that I began to sign up for his show. The almost freebie $2 payment for the first month seemed a worthwhile cost to find out what he was up to prior to his trial. There is a mandatory checkbox on the sign up form and that box is an agreement that you have read the terms and conditions of service. However there are no terms and conditions of service available to be read or agreed to before you input your credit card details.
Sneaky old James. Only the very keen and those naively expecting an honourable treatment would check the box and surrender their credit card details without reading the terms of service.
A neat little filter to filter out the more suspicious--or those who have previously been caught by a forced continuity scam. Once he has your credit card details you'll probably find yourself locked into a long contract if you change your mind and decide not to continue. Only then you will be shown the terms of service that were agreed to and checked sight unseen.
Re: James Arthur Ray - still upselling and scamming
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 25, 2010 11:10PM
Of course it bears repeating for the casual reader, that what James Ray is doing is called UPSELLING.
The first goal of this type of SALES is to get ANY commitment from the customer, and then to move them up the sales ladder into more expensive sales.
So they start with the smallest commitment they can find, in this case for $2, which is just enough to cover the cost of the transaction.
Notice the James Ray pattern again?
He always makes sure each step pays for itself.
So he is charging people $2 the first time, to cover the cost of the transaction.
The first one is simply a TEST, to see if any fishes will bite on the James Ray hook.
Then the next month is going to be $39, and then more upselling will occur in various ways.
James Ray knows that about $40 a month is the level most people will pay for something.
And then those sales targets can be refined, and put on a private email list and then pitched more expensive products.
It would not be surprising to find out James Ray is going to start selling private "phone coaching" with people one-on-one, and scam those followers for a fortune to speak to him personally. Many LGAT seminar Gurus and others use that tactic, and can scam their own indoctrinated followers who have access to money for rates like $900 a hour. (or $250 for 15 minutes, and things like that).
And then he has a updated database of current James Ray followers who will actually still BUY things from him, even after James Ray has SCAMMED his former customers for tens of thousands, by charging them in advance, and then just keeping the money.
Of course, beware that he will try to charge the credit card every month.
He has even said the price is about "forever", so does that mean he is going to try to charge people's accounts EVERY month "forever"?
How are people supposed to CANCEL this monthly charge from James Ray, when he does not respond to any customers?
Of course, with a credit card, that payment can be cancelled with a chargeback. [en.wikipedia.org]
Whatever account he is using would probably be cancelled if there were dozens of chargebacks against it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2010 11:17PM by The Anticult.
The first goal of this type of SALES is to get ANY commitment from the customer, and then to move them up the sales ladder into more expensive sales.
So they start with the smallest commitment they can find, in this case for $2, which is just enough to cover the cost of the transaction.
Notice the James Ray pattern again?
He always makes sure each step pays for itself.
So he is charging people $2 the first time, to cover the cost of the transaction.
The first one is simply a TEST, to see if any fishes will bite on the James Ray hook.
Then the next month is going to be $39, and then more upselling will occur in various ways.
James Ray knows that about $40 a month is the level most people will pay for something.
And then those sales targets can be refined, and put on a private email list and then pitched more expensive products.
It would not be surprising to find out James Ray is going to start selling private "phone coaching" with people one-on-one, and scam those followers for a fortune to speak to him personally. Many LGAT seminar Gurus and others use that tactic, and can scam their own indoctrinated followers who have access to money for rates like $900 a hour. (or $250 for 15 minutes, and things like that).
And then he has a updated database of current James Ray followers who will actually still BUY things from him, even after James Ray has SCAMMED his former customers for tens of thousands, by charging them in advance, and then just keeping the money.
Of course, beware that he will try to charge the credit card every month.
He has even said the price is about "forever", so does that mean he is going to try to charge people's accounts EVERY month "forever"?
How are people supposed to CANCEL this monthly charge from James Ray, when he does not respond to any customers?
Of course, with a credit card, that payment can be cancelled with a chargeback. [en.wikipedia.org]
Whatever account he is using would probably be cancelled if there were dozens of chargebacks against it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2010 11:17PM by The Anticult.
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
wc
()
Date: April 28, 2010 02:19PM
I did not know where to put this on the forum. So, I thought I would just put this study here:
Brain shuts off in response to healer's prayer
[www.newscientist.com]
WHEN we fall under the spell of a charismatic figure, areas of the brain responsible for scepticism and vigilance become less active. That's the finding of a study which looked at people's response to prayers spoken by someone purportedly possessing divine healing powers.
...
Only in the devout volunteers did the brain activity monitored by the researchers change in response to the prayers. Parts of the prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices, which play key roles in vigilance and scepticism when judging the truth and importance of what people say, were deactivated when the subjects listened to a supposed healer. Activity diminished to a lesser extent when the speaker was supposedly a normal Christian (Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, DOI: 10.1093/scan/nsq023).
Schjødt says that this explains why certain individuals can gain influence over others, and concludes that their ability to do so depends heavily on preconceived notions of their authority and trustworthiness.
It's not clear whether the results extend beyond religious leaders, but Schjødt speculates that brain regions may be deactivated in a similar way in response to doctors, parents and politicians.
Brain shuts off in response to healer's prayer
[www.newscientist.com]
WHEN we fall under the spell of a charismatic figure, areas of the brain responsible for scepticism and vigilance become less active. That's the finding of a study which looked at people's response to prayers spoken by someone purportedly possessing divine healing powers.
...
Only in the devout volunteers did the brain activity monitored by the researchers change in response to the prayers. Parts of the prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices, which play key roles in vigilance and scepticism when judging the truth and importance of what people say, were deactivated when the subjects listened to a supposed healer. Activity diminished to a lesser extent when the speaker was supposedly a normal Christian (Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, DOI: 10.1093/scan/nsq023).
Schjødt says that this explains why certain individuals can gain influence over others, and concludes that their ability to do so depends heavily on preconceived notions of their authority and trustworthiness.
It's not clear whether the results extend beyond religious leaders, but Schjødt speculates that brain regions may be deactivated in a similar way in response to doctors, parents and politicians.
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 29, 2010 10:47PM
WC, this is very interesting stuff. Thank you.
Wonder if pleasure/reward mechanisms in the brain are also activated as part of this process. If so, this might account for why some charismatic leaders have an intoxicating, possibly addictive effect in some followers--and especially followers who are already pre selected because of adroit recruiting.
Wonder if pleasure/reward mechanisms in the brain are also activated as part of this process. If so, this might account for why some charismatic leaders have an intoxicating, possibly addictive effect in some followers--and especially followers who are already pre selected because of adroit recruiting.
Re: James Arthur Ray - Oprah Kitty Kelley, Chris Rose
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: May 01, 2010 05:43PM
The book on Oprah by Kittey Kelley is actually pretty good. Its interesting on Amazon, the reviews are polarized in a cultish manner pro-con. [www.amazon.com]
In terms of James Ray, and why Oprah promoted him, it does explain a lot.
Apparently Oprah has exaggerated, fabricated, and lied to a rather large degree about her past and childhood, to make a better Story for the audience.
This is the same tactic used by every New Age Guru, like James Ray, Byron Katie, and others.
Oprah even claimed her only pets were 2 cockroaches, when apparently they had many family pets, and things along those lines.
So there is a great deal of fabrication of Stories about the past Oprah autobiography, standard LGAT Guru stuff, combined with hollywood-style personality marketing.
The other aspect are the outrageous and punishing LIFETIME gag-orders that Oprah puts on EVERYONE, all of her staff, and anyone who goes on her show has to agree to those gag-orders, or they don't go on the show. Oprah's companies apparently have about 25 lawyers.
A writer named Chris Rose explains how after a 10 hr day, the Oprah producers tried to bully him into signing that gag-order, and he refused.
As not read by Oprah Wednesday, August 29, 2007 Chris Rose [www.nola.com]
Of course, who is going to openly criticize someone like Oprah, who will ban you for life from her shows if you criticize her? That is an extremely powerful system self-censorship, if you think about it.
In terms of Oprah endorsing James Ray, there is really no excuse for Oprah and her producers. They put everyone through the ringer for WEEKS before they appear on the show, so they know all about the complaints against their Gurus and guests, they know everything about them.
QUOTE:
_____________________
page 382...
"Its a cult at Harpo. So oppressive its frightening....If America really knew how this woman operates behind the scenes, they'd be shocked, but no one inside will tell you, because they'd be canned, and those who've escaped to the outside don't want to risk being sued. Oprah has lawyers straining at the leash like pit bulls to go after anyone who might diminish her brand...
______________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2010 05:48PM by The Anticult.
In terms of James Ray, and why Oprah promoted him, it does explain a lot.
Apparently Oprah has exaggerated, fabricated, and lied to a rather large degree about her past and childhood, to make a better Story for the audience.
This is the same tactic used by every New Age Guru, like James Ray, Byron Katie, and others.
Oprah even claimed her only pets were 2 cockroaches, when apparently they had many family pets, and things along those lines.
So there is a great deal of fabrication of Stories about the past Oprah autobiography, standard LGAT Guru stuff, combined with hollywood-style personality marketing.
The other aspect are the outrageous and punishing LIFETIME gag-orders that Oprah puts on EVERYONE, all of her staff, and anyone who goes on her show has to agree to those gag-orders, or they don't go on the show. Oprah's companies apparently have about 25 lawyers.
A writer named Chris Rose explains how after a 10 hr day, the Oprah producers tried to bully him into signing that gag-order, and he refused.
As not read by Oprah Wednesday, August 29, 2007 Chris Rose [www.nola.com]
Of course, who is going to openly criticize someone like Oprah, who will ban you for life from her shows if you criticize her? That is an extremely powerful system self-censorship, if you think about it.
In terms of Oprah endorsing James Ray, there is really no excuse for Oprah and her producers. They put everyone through the ringer for WEEKS before they appear on the show, so they know all about the complaints against their Gurus and guests, they know everything about them.
QUOTE:
_____________________
page 382...
"Its a cult at Harpo. So oppressive its frightening....If America really knew how this woman operates behind the scenes, they'd be shocked, but no one inside will tell you, because they'd be canned, and those who've escaped to the outside don't want to risk being sued. Oprah has lawyers straining at the leash like pit bulls to go after anyone who might diminish her brand...
______________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2010 05:48PM by The Anticult.
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by:
jeand
()
Date: May 05, 2010 07:14AM
HandfulofRice on Twitter just tweeted 5/4/2010, warning people not to sign some agreements and documents JamesRay has posted and he's using buzz words like "vacillating" and "self-doubt". I haven't looked at the documents,just decided to post that information here. Ray just posted this, "Uncertainty is part of sailing unchartered waters" The pattern is obvious. He is truly incapable of not selling,controlling,selling, controlling,selling. I think he's psychologically wired to do this and can't stop himself. That's why he needs to be locked away.
NO REFUNDS James Arthur Ray - http://jamesray.com/jri-events.html
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: May 05, 2010 08:26PM
James Ray is up to something concerning his NO REFUNDS NO EXCEPTIONS for all the people who paid in advance for LGAT seminars.
If anyone gets the documents please link to them, or post them.
They could be trying a technique along the lines of saying, they "lost" the data, and this is their "publc notice" for former customers to contact them?
If someone has a generic email account, they could perhaps access whatever James Ray is sending out to people.
Of course, anyone who lost money to James Ray in this way, should speak with an expert in that area to find out what can be done.
Notice also below [commentary in brackets] how James Ray uses the word "Friend" all the time in his marketing. That is a specific technique taught in Influence seminars for many many years. They DELIBERATELY try to make the customer feel like your "friend" by using various techniques, when in fact they are not a "friend", they are a total stranger of course. But its a subtle but powerful technique. They literally say...MAKE THE CUSTOMER FEEL LIKE YOUR BEST FRIEND. That is a technique, and a powerful one.
James Ray also abuses the words "love" and "respect" in the same way.
The sad thing is James Ray does these techniques so poorly and so obviously, yet those without any training in this area seem to fall for it.
_________________________
[jamesray.com]
If you are registered for any of the following events, please fill out the form below:
2009, 2010 Quantum Leap
2010 Harmonic Wealth Weekend
2010 Creating Absolute Wealth
2010 Practical Mysticism
2010 Spiritual Warrior
2010, 2011, 2012 Modern Magick
______________________
[www.kewego.com]
[commentary in brackets]
[jamesray.com]
Hello Friend [social Influence trigger word],
We need to get in contact with you regarding the postponed JRI events [I spent your money ages ago, and need you to sign away all your rights as a consumer for a refund] .
Please take a quick moment and watch the [Influencing] video here [jamesray.com] and then make sure we have your most current contact information. [Once JRI has your money they don't even keep a list of who they got it from!]
Thanks so much and have an amazing day. [if your day isn't always "amazing" that means you need more rip-off LGAT seminars].
Much love and respect [ugly technique of abusing powerful words for manipulation]
James Arthur Ray
_____________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2010 08:33PM by The Anticult.
If anyone gets the documents please link to them, or post them.
They could be trying a technique along the lines of saying, they "lost" the data, and this is their "publc notice" for former customers to contact them?
If someone has a generic email account, they could perhaps access whatever James Ray is sending out to people.
Of course, anyone who lost money to James Ray in this way, should speak with an expert in that area to find out what can be done.
Notice also below [commentary in brackets] how James Ray uses the word "Friend" all the time in his marketing. That is a specific technique taught in Influence seminars for many many years. They DELIBERATELY try to make the customer feel like your "friend" by using various techniques, when in fact they are not a "friend", they are a total stranger of course. But its a subtle but powerful technique. They literally say...MAKE THE CUSTOMER FEEL LIKE YOUR BEST FRIEND. That is a technique, and a powerful one.
James Ray also abuses the words "love" and "respect" in the same way.
The sad thing is James Ray does these techniques so poorly and so obviously, yet those without any training in this area seem to fall for it.
_________________________
[jamesray.com]
If you are registered for any of the following events, please fill out the form below:
2009, 2010 Quantum Leap
2010 Harmonic Wealth Weekend
2010 Creating Absolute Wealth
2010 Practical Mysticism
2010 Spiritual Warrior
2010, 2011, 2012 Modern Magick
______________________
[www.kewego.com]
[commentary in brackets]
[jamesray.com]
Hello Friend [social Influence trigger word],
We need to get in contact with you regarding the postponed JRI events [I spent your money ages ago, and need you to sign away all your rights as a consumer for a refund] .
Please take a quick moment and watch the [Influencing] video here [jamesray.com] and then make sure we have your most current contact information. [Once JRI has your money they don't even keep a list of who they got it from!]
Thanks so much and have an amazing day. [if your day isn't always "amazing" that means you need more rip-off LGAT seminars].
Much love and respect [ugly technique of abusing powerful words for manipulation]
James Arthur Ray
_____________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2010 08:33PM by The Anticult.
Re: NO REFUNDS James Arthur Ray - http://jamesray.com/jri-events.html
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: May 06, 2010 04:42AM
There was obviously an underwhelmimg response to DeathRay's $2 offer to sign up ad infinitum to his radio show. Even though the offer ended on May 3 he has decided to run it again to try to hook some more fish.
[jamesray.com]
(If you click on this link you might want to scroll down and silence the audio button which plays automatically with nauseous puffery before JAR launches into his 'Flow' drivel)
Avoid giving credit card details to this man, even for $2.
The Arizona Star is picking up on JAR's vague allusion:'taking care of this in the very best way possible' re the refunds that are never going to be made.
How hard is it to say "I haven't delivered the goods and am unlikely to do so in the future so here is your money back."
Perhaps DeathRay will offer a $2 subscription to his new radio show in recompense to those people wanting a refund.
[azstarnet.com]
(again there is a auto-playing vid (the wrong one!) posted so scroll down and silence it if you can live without JAR's drivel)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2010 04:42AM by Stoic.
[jamesray.com]
(If you click on this link you might want to scroll down and silence the audio button which plays automatically with nauseous puffery before JAR launches into his 'Flow' drivel)
Avoid giving credit card details to this man, even for $2.
The Arizona Star is picking up on JAR's vague allusion:'taking care of this in the very best way possible' re the refunds that are never going to be made.
How hard is it to say "I haven't delivered the goods and am unlikely to do so in the future so here is your money back."
Perhaps DeathRay will offer a $2 subscription to his new radio show in recompense to those people wanting a refund.
[azstarnet.com]
(again there is a auto-playing vid (the wrong one!) posted so scroll down and silence it if you can live without JAR's drivel)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2010 04:42AM by Stoic.
Re: James Arthur Ray - Latest from Salty Droid
Posted by:
Yakaru
()
Date: May 14, 2010 08:53PM
Salty Droid has done another excellent "truth-parody" of Ray's old promo video for "Creating Absolute Wealth".
Creating Absolute Bullshit
Creating Absolute Bullshit
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.