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Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 15, 2008 06:38AM

Here we go again.
Remi is "playing dumb".

"Training" is another name for LGAT, and those can be EXTREMELY DAMAGING.
Also, Eckhart Tolle's methods can cause very serious damage to people, and even lead to suicides, if not just severe depression.
Eckhart Tolle is attacking the human mind and Self, and trying to extinguish it to stop the emotional pain people have. Its a perverse and anti-psychological method.

Looks like some very committed Eckhart Tolle apologists are at work.
Eckhart Tolle and his publishers have even gotten people to post messages everywhere along the lines of...

"I bought 5 books and gave them all away!".
Viral marketing for the indoctrinated.

So they are working hard for the almighty dollar.


"Sounds like the apologies offered by Werner Erhard's supporters through est and Landmark Education, i.e. you must "experience" the Forum or you cannot hold an opinion about it. You don't need to experience "drunk driving" to know it's a bad idea."

'Training' is not the same event as 'drunk driving'. Drunk driving is comitted by an unhealthy person and may also put many others into risk of fatalities. You equal that with attending a training session where people can leave and does not cause harm to a healthy person!?

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Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: May 16, 2008 09:46AM

About 5 years ago my life was destroyed by The Legacy Center cult in Morrisville, NC.
Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" CD was on their recommended reading/listening list.
Listening to that CD made my bipolar, manic, and delusions much worse. It is not only worthless crap but it can be very dangerous.
This clown is another snake oil salesman and so is Oprah.
Oprah became the Queen of New Age many years ago when she started pushing the likes of Wayne Dyer and Depak Chopra.
She is traveling a dangerous road and leading millions down a very trecherous path.
This New Age garbage is in total opposition to the teachings of Christ and the Bible.
I guess Oprah will have Joel Osteen on next! Ha. Ha.

Yeah, I've heard some bad things about the Legacy Center. Glad you are out.

I like Joel Osteen for the most part. I know a lot of people on the Oprah Tolle board objected to Tolle because they see his teachings as opposed to the Bible. I guess that's a matter of opinion. My concerns about Tolle are related to his methods, i.e. coercive persuasion including ericksonian hynosis, disparaging critical thinking and bashing the ego. I might be missing something, but I don't see those elements in Joel.

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Oprah - Eckhart Tolle - deception concerning religion
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 16, 2008 12:56PM

One thing that is interesting about the religious aspects of this...

Oprah and Eckhart Tolle say that Tolle's ideas do not conflict with traditional Christianity as practiced in the USA.
Well, that is false, and it is consciously deceptive.

If they were to say...its compatible with Gnostic Christianity or the Atman in Hinduism, or Pantheism, then that would be more intellectually honest. But they don't say that, they say the opposite.

What Tolle and Oprah are selling is actually the opposite to traditional Christianity, especially in terms of how the treat the idea of Jesus. They completely conflict with eachother.
What Oprah and Tolle are doing is re-interpreting traditional Christianity, and what they are preaching would technically be a form of "blasphemy", in that they are saying you and I are perfect equals to Christ, which means we literally are Gods in-the-making. (tell your spouse you are a God, and thus don't have to clean the bathroom anymore).
Oprah and Tolle also reject every other aspect of traditional Christianity as well.

They tell the audience they are NOT doing this, so they will drop their guard, and then maybe get "Transformed", without even knowing what happened to them.

That is one of the main aspects of these cultish groups, the use of DECEPTION to lure people in.
At least most traditional Christians are more upfront about what they believe.
But Tolle and Oprah are consciously using deception to try a lure people into the Tolle material, which might then change their beliefs about their religion in a covert way, from the inside.

Its surprising that more of the traditional Christians out there haven't commented on the DECEPTION part of it. Tolle and Oprah are literally lying when they say that his ideas are a perfect fit with Christianity. No they ain't. They reject every single component of traditional christianity, and sweep away traditional christianity.

It is outright intellectual dishonesty, and conscious deception.
Too bad no one calls them on that on live media. But notice how they are always on pre-recorded media getting pre-screened softball questions?

Put Eckhart Tolle on a 1 hour live TV show with some trained philosophers, and he would be toast.

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Re: Oprah - Eckhart Tolle - deception concerning religion
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: May 17, 2008 07:18AM

The Anticult

Put Eckhart Tolle on a 1 hour live TV show with some trained philosophers, and he would be toast.

See - this is what no one notices. None of these imposters will ever sit down with the genuine philosopher, scientist, physician - expert. My Landmarkian doctor jumped through hoops to avoid being introduced to real physicians we met at The Prophets Conference in NYC. At the time, I really thought he was having bathroom issues, but after another similar incident, I realized he was avoiding going to toe-to-toe with someone who might know more than he did.

It would be priceless to see an interview with someone like Tolle and a philosopher. It will never happen because they won't allow it happen.

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Oprah - Eckhart Tolle - deception, dishonesty, unethical, James Randi
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 18, 2008 01:29AM

It is truly amazing how these alleged "spiritual" people are so dishonest and unethical.

Any reasonable person, and any decent intellectual or proper thinker, would feel its their moral and ethical responsibility to engage in open, moderated debate. That is healthy.

But now what they do is hide, and at best, they engage in a false pretence of debate, which is staged. That is all Eckhart Tolle does, you will NEVER see him in a open forum, only in pre-staged events.

The Oprah TV show is one of the worst and most skilled perpetrators of this method. They have been doing it for many years.
Currently their method is to not have ANY skeptical or critical viewpoints on the show, or if they do, they "reframe" it in a way that serves their agenda.
For example, a recent person who was made to appear to have Skyped in on the Oprah show, was actually preselected, coached, and had Skype installed by the Oprah people!! A complete sham.

Why is Eckhart Tolle so afraid to appear in a live debate with properly trained and prepared PROFESSIONAL PHILOSOPHERS?
Because they would expose him for what he is...a fraud. He must know he is a fraud, otherwise he would welcome the chance to explain himself. Right?

Its weird how people love Oprah so much, when in fact she is so deceptive in this area, and has been so for many years.

James Randi describes how Oprah's producers blatantly "sandbagged" him back in 1995.


This will be a rather long item, but it deals with an important subject – how Oprah Winfrey manages to promote woo-woo ideas on her program by careful management of the content. Before we begin, you must understand how TV programs are recorded and put together for later broadcast. First and most important is the image of the host; this must be supported, and audience expectations must be met in that regard. Second, the sponsors must be satisfied that nothing unpopular or politically incorrect is used; that won’t sell the product. Third, secondary guests are expendable, and are there only to be used, in any way that serves the intent of the producers.

Back in April of 1995, I’d been contacted by the Oprah show and made an offer to do a second appearance with them. I simply told them, “No thanks”; I’d already been sandbagged by that show. In that appearance, I’d been told, just before I left my hotel for the studio, that the previously-scheduled “psychics” – for whom I was well prepared – would not be showing up. I went all the way out to the location and then found out, moments before the show went on the air – live – that those major "psychics" actually were appearing on the show. Though I’d prepared video and newspaper material to contradict the pompous and false claims of those two scheduled “psychics,” I’d left the data behind at the hotel when told I'd be without opposition, and I had nothing in hand. It was a blatant, calculated lie designed to trap me, and I fell for it. But I’d not do it again. I'm sure Oprah doesn't need me, and I have no need of such unethical behavior. There are rules, even though Oprah doesn't seem to know them.

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Re: The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle - Cognitive Suicide
Date: May 19, 2008 03:57AM

SuzyQ, I appreciate the clarification. I suppose we just might have to agree to disagree about Eckhart Tolle though. All he teaches, as far as I can tell, is the importance of quieting the mind and being aware of the present moment.>>

My friend at Pearson publishing (the world's largest assessment publisher) has only last week informed me of a work in progress to create a mindfulness assessment in the context of parenting. The relaxation response, meditation and even yoga are becoming mainstream, and science is now acknowledging the effectiveness and relevance of this to the general public. Both psychology and medical science have revealed the quantifiable benefits of such and similar. By the way, whoever manages to pull off an accurate and reliable mindfulness assessment will be quite rich. However, that will not make them a cult member or leader by virtue of.

<< I don't know if the guy is enlightened or simply deluded but I haven't seen any evidence that he has tried taking advantage of anyone. The Oprah followers that buy his books and fatten his wallet most likely have more than enough money to spare. He is not forcing anything upon anyone and most of his "followers" seem to find comfort in his product. Fraud or not, I think his writings actually do offer a lot of good advice and might be more beneficial to someone than an extra gucci/coach product.>>

Indeed. Cognitive Behavior Psychology, which by the way has been generally acknowleged to bear much in common with Buddhist philsophy, affirms the power of awareness and the fact of subconscious thoughts which work to our detriment. Additionally, it along with Tolle, affirm that we are most vulnerable to irrational cognitions which fuel mood-related maladaptive behavior when we are less mindful. If it makes anyone feel better, even some ancient Greek philosophy seems to jive with CBT.

While many here seem to hold a grudge against Tolle, I've yet to find anything that isn't simply unsubstantiated opinion, empty speculation or mere outright blatant intolerance and cheap shots with the addtional "charming" attitude that one must be an idiot or worse if one doesn't agree with the the critics of Tolle here. Accordingly, while the index aspects of the RR site are quite useful, the message board is rather problematic, bulging at the seams with far too much unsubstantiated "opinion" and some veiled religious intolerance in the guise of "free thinking" that takes on a certain degree of unwarranted credibility by virtue of being featured here at the RR site. Unfortunately the moderators seem rather apathetic in this instance.

I made this suggestion once before, but the RR website loitering egoists had only a tepid reception for it. Nevertheless, I strongly suggest that RR have disclaimers which make future readers of the message board aware of this lest the credibility of the entire RR site suffer therefrom. Even New Age types may have bad experiences with cults, and it does not make any sense to belittle and denigrate them just because some here cannot stand it that not everyone walks in lockstep with their religious or atheistic point of view. Not all New Age thought is cultic or an LGAT. Just because they may share some common terminology doesn't mean that they're all part of some giant conspiracy. To allege otherwise sounds well-intentioned but ignorant at best, and at worse sounds purposefully misleading and in extreme incidences of hate-mongering. Hitler appropriated the symbol of the swastika from Asia, neverthless I've seen belligerently ingnorant kooks on amazon make the "ingenious" deduction that just because a book has an illustration of a swastika from ancient China, that the book then promotes nazism. Even when you point out to them their error they still obstinately refuse to concede that they even "might" be wrong. I think the parallel here at the RR site is self-evident and no reasonable astute person needs the anology to be clarified.

<<Personally, I find ET fairly harmless and somewhat entertaining. Part of his appeal is that he makes people feel good without actually pushing them to do much of anything and Oprah's crowd probably likes that kind of message. I just kind of see him as a person that stumbled upon some kind of wisdom and lets people pay him money to hear him talk about it. I"m not a big fan but, on the other, I don't see him as a cult leader or even as someone who's dangerous in any way. He might be the read deal for all I know but I just don't put much faith in spiritual teachers who use their money to buy designer clothes, extravagant vehicle, living quarters, etc. Maybe that's just my prejudice.>>

I agree, for Tolle does not use the tactics of say, Landmark or Scientology. I've searched for any damning evidence at RR, but have found none. A friend had me listen to/watch some of Tolle media, and I read "A New Earth" as she gave it to me as a gift. There were no hard sales tactics or arm twisting like Landmark or Scientology, for example. He explicitly told everyone who likes his teachings to not proseletyze, but to simply help yourself secretly and with one's mouth shut. No forums, meetings or whatever are required. The webcasts were free, and one is admonished to be a SILENT presence in secret--not to proseltyze or sell anything ever. And finally, if someone doesn't "get it" so to speak, then he admonishes everyone to shut up and leave them be, again, so to speak. That's hardly an LGAT or cult. Mind you, I was a huge anti Landmark critic here. I owned and read Outrageous Betrayal as well as Cults in Our Midsts. and I spent far too much time at this site when in mourning over a friend I'd once lost to Landmark. So I know what a cult and an LGAT is versus what Tolle is not. I also read the Art of Seduction which brilliantly illustrates what cult, LGAT, corporate and political weasels do to manipulate us. Tolle does none of them I am relieved to say.

Sure, many here don't like him, and they love to speculate and/or rant about him. However, speculations and opinions don't mean jack. These very same detractors may hate the fact that he makes a good living off of his words. Others simply hate him because he dares to not think and feel the way that he does. But as long as Tolle doesn't try to force his teachings on people, then it's perfectly legitimate, so to whit: live with it, move along, and get on with your lives. Frankly, all the self-indulgent pseudo intellectual bitterness that this site has degraded into the last few years is galling and repellent. Although thankfully the index is still rational and accurate. Simply look up wicca or freemasonry here. It's quite refreshing to see RR's objectivity even though I'm not a follower of either, for otherwise I'm sure a vocal minority here would just love to say even worse things about them and similar there than they have here about Tolle. Ironically, I think that the very quasi hysterical rants about Tolle on this site may, actually, bolster Tolle's credibility about the nature of mindfulness and the lack thereof via ego and the so-called "pain body" since many here seem to literally illustrate that very thing.

Now isn't THAT ironic.

<<So my final verdict:

Eckhart Tolle - Very rich, pretty harmless, and not a cult leader

Andrew Cohen - Very rich, teaches a similar philosophy as Tolle, deluded, and definitely displays all the signs of a cult leader

Byron Katie - This is the first I've heard of her so I don't really know

I wholeheartedly agree about Tolle. The others I am not familiar with nor do I have any interest in them.

Please, if such exist dear readers, reign in your so-called ego and/or pain bodies, for I've no interest or time to discuss this further. I'm sort of a contradiction in the dictionary--a spiritual pragmatist. Accordingly: Whether you like or dislike what I had to say, it will make no practical difference in my life; therefore, it makes no difference at all.

Good bye.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2008 04:13AM by Coldnosesandfluffytails.

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Eckhart Tolle - Antiscience, New Age Religion for profit
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 19, 2008 09:14PM

Its interesting the different ways people can perceive things if they have a personal iron in the fire.

For example, I have not seen anyone criticize the valid idea of "Mindfulness" on this site. Mindfulness is a legit thing, and it is being studied.
MBCT, Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy is already being developed.

But Eckhart Tolle is NOT teaching Mindfulness, and certainly offers no evidence or scientific proof or studies.

And what Tolle is talking about directly contradicts much of what is taught in CBT. CBT is based on decades of science-based testing, and has nothing to do with Eckhart Tolle. Zero.
Show one accurate footnote relating to CBT in Tolle's books, there are none.
Even Tolle's past history is distorted to create a Myth around him.

Another common mistake is because Eckhart Tolle speaks in a soft-voice and appears passive, then he must be what he appears?
If that is the case, why has Tolle created "Silent Groups" where he instructs people not to talk? That is highly manipulative. Tolle can talk, but not you?
That is not enlightenment. That is HYPNOSIS.
Tolle is hypnotizing you.

Why does Tolle sell hundreds of hours of audio and video of HIMSELF talking? So Tolle is special? Tolle is smarter and better than you?

The criticisms of Eckhart Tolle are valid.
If people want to get lured into a bottomless pit of Preaching and follow Eckhart Tolle for years, its their life. If they want to waste thousands of dollars on his recordings and workshops, its their money.

But Eckhart Tolle claims he is Enlightened, and he offers no proof for this.
He markets his own personality, he is forming local groups around his personality.
He is disconnected from his body, you can see it in his poor posture, and lack of physical vitality.He seems quite unhealthy, bookish, and even sickly.

Just because Eckhart Tolle is not doing the hard-sell of Landmark, does not mean he is not doing a soft-sell. As a matter of fact, the hypnotic soft-sell approach can be much more effective.

There are about 150 individual 1-2 star critical reviews at Amazon of A New Earth, that cover most of the points of criticism of Tolle.

Lastly, the Eckhart Tolle imaginary "pain-body" has no basis in psychology, no basis in philosophy, no basic in science whatsoever. He just made it up, much like Hubbard from Scientology made things up.
The pain-body is a mental fabrication from Tolle's Egoic mind.

If Eckhart Tolle had any real credibility, he would enter into the field of psychology, or philosophy, or science, and prove his ideas.
Instead, he is simply selling a New Age religion based around his own personality for personal profit.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2008 09:31PM by The Anticult.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle - Antiscience, New Age Religion for profit
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 19, 2008 09:42PM

by the way, there appear to be dozens of "shills" on for the Eckhart Tolle book.
Either they are shills, or they are all singing from the same songbook.

They usually say something like...

- Wow, this book is so fantastic, I am "sharing" it with all my "yoga students" , and anyone else who will listen, and have "given away 5 copies", blah blah blah.

That is all typical viral marketing persuasion.
That is how the Celestine Prophecy became a hit, he told everyone at the end of the book, to recommend the book to others, and they did.

This reminds one of the title of the old book..."If You Meet The Buddha on The Road...Kill Him".
The point is, you are going to meet hundreds of fakers in the world trying to sell you enlightenment for a dollar.

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Keep it in your pants
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 19, 2008 10:52PM

Keep It in Your Pants

Now that we have your undivided attention:

Anticult wrote:

"Tolle can talk, but not you?"

It is also a way to create power imbalance, foster projections and induce craving. Look at all the authority set ups where one person does the talking and the rest of us shut up.

The question to ask , is Cicero's old classic:

'Cui bono'?

---'Who benefits (from the power imbalance)?'

Do you ever get to graduate from this power imbalance and exercise personal autonomy and agency?'

Or is the set up designed to keep you spiritually or intellectually horny, in a state of constant striving and craving so that you keep on buying yet another book, yet another tape, going to yet another mass attendance jamboree where you have a hard-on for getting exactly the right seat in the auditorium?

This, friends, is what Buddhism terms 'afflictive emotion'--craving.

To investigate craving, keep it in your pants--your credit card, that is.

Instead, apply discernment and curiosity to craving, even to spiritually rationalized craving that is produced by human potential marketing, guru-theatre, and other manifestatoins of the Enlightenment Industry. Its American mass marketing, the engine of which is unexamined craving.

The jail break tool is to get curious about this craving and ponder what is making you feel that way--external factors, plus expectations and hopes you had before you encountered the external/environmental trigger.

If people are excited about something or someone, ask, 'Does this seem free or unfree? Do they seem to be hankering for something, despite insisting they have found 'it'? Why are they so intense about it? Usually finding something brings calmness.'

And instead of acting on the craving and yanking out the credit card---ponder the power games, the social context and also one's own expectations.

An Buddhist teacher would do nothing to aggravate craving--each of us already has plenty of it and its spiritual malpractice to hetz folks up further.

One of the 4 foundations of awakening is 'equanimity'--the opposite of hype and craving.

Someone who wants us to wake up would show us how to investigate the chain of cause and effect that gives rise to craving rather than keeping us in the state of craving so that we will whip it out---(one's credit card).

If you're part of a social network of people who share that same craving it feels very intimate, vrey intense, but it is still unfree. It can distract from depression - at least for awhile, but--but its still craving. If we have a small amount of energy, it can feel like a lot of energy if we are internally constricted in a state of craving, and share the company of people who crave the same thing we do.

Once you are taught some basic mindfulness skills you dont need to hang around the teacher or to keep on buying tapes or gadgets. You can apply those tools all day long and be fascinated by what you learn.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2008 11:03PM by corboy.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle - Antiscience, New Age Religion for profit
Posted by: csp ()
Date: May 20, 2008 12:12AM

The Anticult
But Eckhart Tolle is NOT teaching Mindfulness, and certainly offers no evidence or scientific proof or studies.

But Eckhart Tolle claims he is Enlightened, and he offers no proof for this.

He is disconnected from his body, you can see it in his poor posture, and lack of physical vitality.He seems quite unhealthy, bookish, and even sickly.

Lastly, the Eckhart Tolle imaginary "pain-body" has no basis in psychology, no basis in philosophy, no basic in science whatsoever.

If Eckhart Tolle had any real credibility, he would enter into the field of psychology, or philosophy, or science, and prove his ideas.

1. Tolle is indeed teaching mindfulness in the Buddhist tradition and not as part of CBT. He doesn't talk about or claim the latter, so cannot be criticized on that basis. If you want to criticize his use of mindfulness then you have to do so from a Buddhist and not CBT basis.

2. Tolle does not claim to be enlightened. Question: If someone were enlightened how would they prove it? Please explain.

3. Tolle is over 60 years old. He looks at least 10 years younger than his actual age.

4. The "pain body" does not have an equivalent in psychology, but does have similarities to other esoteric commentary and descriptions (e.g. astral body). Again ... Tolle makes no claims to be speaking about or from the field of psychology. He is speaking as a spiritual teacher, but you repeatedly hold him to standards of scientific criteria. This would not be different from the reverse of holding science to the criteria of religion or spirituality. Neither is acceptable. They each have their own language and constructs from which to understand, analyze and critique.

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