csp:

Is Tolle accepted as a Buddhist teacher that is teaching the Buddhist tradition?

What official Buddhist body recognizes Tolle?

Tolle makes supernatural claims that cannot be proven such as his alleged epiphany and supposed awareness and the existence of the "pain body."

Like many con men Tolle has his "own language" or lingo, but he lacks any objective evidence or credibility.

Tolle has Oprah, which is good for marketing, but doesn't demonstrate any academic or professional standing.

BTW--Tolle's appearance doesn't demonstrate anything other than his genetic background.

He does seem a bit disturbed ans strange on his YouTube videos.

There is no Buddhist authoritative body that certifies "mindfulness" but since the accusation has been made that he does not teach "mindfulness" maybe someone can explain and provide us with facts as to how he is not teaching mindfulness. I can - if anyone would like to know - explain how he does teach "mindfulness" methods.

Spiritual or religious knowledge is of a different type than scientific knowledge, so there is no objective means or repeatable trials to verify it as with scientific research. If that is the criteria for Tolle then it is also the criteria for the validity of all religious or spiritual belief systems.

Like I said - everyone from Socrates to Mr. Ross - did not or do not have academic credentials, so that is not the only criteria for legitimate knowledge or methodology.

My response about Mr. Tolle's age was only in response to the comment that he looked physically ill and/or weak.

Disturbed and strange? Very subjective. Can you give us some objective, observable facts about his behavior that equate to "strangeness"?

Thank you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2008 08:49PM by rrmoderator.

csp:

First I deleted your personal remark about me, but then it seemed meaningful to include it.

Please understand that attempting to attack me personally doesn't change the facts about Eckhart Tolle, which is the topic of this thread.

FYI--I have been qualified and accepted as an expert witness concerning cults and their dynamics in 10 states, including US Federal Court through a Daubert hearing.

BTW--Tolle is no "Socrates."

Maybe you should make up your mind what Tolle is, a religious preacher, philosopher or self-styled therapist.

Needless to say Tolle has no official recognition regarding his supposed expertise.

You keep using Buddhism to defend Tolle, though you admit that "there is no Buddhist authoritative body that certifies 'mindfulness.'"

But you sidestepped my last two questions.

Does any authoritative Buddhist body recognize Tolle officially regarding anything?

Thank you for admitting that "there is no objective means or repeatable trials to verify" any of Tolle's claims.

Anyone interested in seeing how strange Tolle can be should watch his videos on YouTube.

See [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2008 08:55PM by rrmoderator.

If I were to follow the advice of Toll my young children would be neglected and craving attention as I sat smiling and staring into the the abyss. Sounds like he is the typical cult leader. We take his advice in the same way we would take a shot of heroin. Good for me and oh...too bad for the rest of humanity. These are narcissists who sell their own narcissistic tendencies like a drug.

On a serious note. This is a real question. Let's say I have been diagnosed with cancer and I have two young children and I need to care for them but; I'm struggling with my own needs. The teachings of Tolle will help me HOW? Clearing my mind of all thoughts will feed my children HOW? How does this man's teachings help ME TO help others......oh...wait.....I just remembered....IT DOESN'T

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rrmoderator
First I deleted your personal remark about me, but then it seemed meaningful to include it.

Please understand that attempting to attack me personally doesn't change the facts about Eckhart Tolle, which is the topic of this thread.

I was doing quite the opposite. I was defending you. My point was that degrees, academic credentials, etc. are not necessarily a barometer of a person's effectiveness or worth as a teacher or expert in a particular field.

To answer your question again regarding a "Buddhist body officially recognizing Tolle" ... why would they? There is no copyright, legal jurisdiction or credentials regarding the practice or teaching of "mindfulness." However, leave it to western, academic circles to try and hijack it as their own (e.g. MCBT). This sort of "patenting" of spiritual practices was attempted (and I think, unfortunately, successfully) in the US (of course) with certain yoga postures. A yoga "teacher" patented certain postures and sued others if they attempted to utilized them without paying him. This is - in my opinion - an abomination of the essence of spiritual practices - and is why any sort of "authenticating" of Tolle's use of mindfulness by an official Buddhist authority is ludicrous and dangerous.

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Sallie
If I were to follow the advice of Toll my young children would be neglected and craving attention as I sat smiling and staring into the the abyss. Sounds like he is the typical cult leader. We take his advice in the same way we would take a shot of heroin. Good for me and oh...too bad for the rest of humanity. These are narcissists who sell their own narcissistic tendencies like a drug.

Quite the opposite. If you were living in the NOW you would be completely present with your children and providing the exact care and interaction they require at every moment of the day. No staring into the abyss at all.

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Sallie
On a serious note. This is a real question. Let's say I have been diagnosed with cancer and I have two young children and I need to care for them but; I'm struggling with my own needs. The teachings of Tolle will help me HOW? Clearing my mind of all thoughts will feed my children HOW? How does this man's teachings help ME TO help others......oh...wait.....I just remembered....IT DOESN'T

My wife actually has a very serious form of cancer, and although we are not followers of Tolle, mindfulness (as part of the Eightfold Path) is part of her daily life. Her suffering occurs (by her own admission) when she is NOT mindful and living in the present. The pain and discomfort of an illness only becomes suffering when our mind takes over and we project our fears into the future about "what is going to happen" somewhere at a point down the road. When this occurs you are living outside of the moment and become dysfunctional to yourself and others. You are trapped in the mind, living in the illusory future and not doing what you need to do right now.

Another poster described the Depersonalization Disorder. There is a link which I read. Basically, everyone can feel depersonalized during a moment of shock like a car accident. It is that surreal, out-of-one's body feeling. If the feeling becomes chronic, then this depersonalization ''feeiling'' becomes a ''disorder.'' Again my point is that these books and ideas are for people who are not part of a properly functioning family. Never mind the ''individual'' who clings to these ideas. Show me the happily married mom and dad who are raising many happy and well adjusted children. Is Eckhart Tolle of any help to these fully functioning families?

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Sallie
Again my point is that these books and ideas are for people who are not part of a properly functioning family. Never mind the ''individual'' who clings to these ideas. Show me the happily married mom and dad who are raising many happy and well adjusted children. Is Eckhart Tolle of any help to these fully functioning families?

If someone feels that they have found the truth and/or are perfectly happy with their life then ... no ... why would they need Tolle or any other teachings? They have found the answer.