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Remi

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rrmoderator
csp:

"Sounds like the apologies offered by Werner Erhard's supporters through est and Landmark Education, i.e. you must "experience" the Forum or you cannot hold an opinion about it. You don't need to experience "drunk driving" to know it's a bad idea."

'Training' is not the same event as 'drunk driving'. Drunk driving is comitted by an unhealthy person and may also put many others into risk of fatalities. You equal that with attending a training session where people can leave and does not cause harm to a healthy person!?

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lindacultgoddess
About 5 years ago my life was destroyed by The Legacy Center cult in Morrisville, NC.
Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" CD was on their recommended reading/listening list.
Listening to that CD made my bipolar, manic, and delusions much worse. It is not only worthless crap but it can be very dangerous.
This clown is another snake oil salesman and so is Oprah.
Oprah became the Queen of New Age many years ago when she started pushing the likes of Wayne Dyer and Depak Chopra.
She is traveling a dangerous road and leading millions down a very trecherous path.
This New Age garbage is in total opposition to the teachings of Christ and the Bible.
I guess Oprah will have Joel Osteen on next! Ha. Ha.

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The Anticult


Put Eckhart Tolle on a 1 hour live TV show with some trained philosophers, and he would be toast.

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AN OPRAH FIASCO
This will be a rather long item, but it deals with an important subject – how Oprah Winfrey manages to promote woo-woo ideas on her program by careful management of the content. Before we begin, you must understand how TV programs are recorded and put together for later broadcast. First and most important is the image of the host; this must be supported, and audience expectations must be met in that regard. Second, the sponsors must be satisfied that nothing unpopular or politically incorrect is used; that won’t sell the product. Third, secondary guests are expendable, and are there only to be used, in any way that serves the intent of the producers.

Back in April of 1995, I’d been contacted by the Oprah show and made an offer to do a second appearance with them. I simply told them, “No thanks”; I’d already been sandbagged by that show. In that appearance, I’d been told, just before I left my hotel for the studio, that the previously-scheduled “psychics” – for whom I was well prepared – would not be showing up. I went all the way out to the location and then found out, moments before the show went on the air – live – that those major "psychics" actually were appearing on the show. Though I’d prepared video and newspaper material to contradict the pompous and false claims of those two scheduled “psychics,” I’d left the data behind at the hotel when told I'd be without opposition, and I had nothing in hand. It was a blatant, calculated lie designed to trap me, and I fell for it. But I’d not do it again. I'm sure Oprah doesn't need me, and I have no need of such unethical behavior. There are rules, even though Oprah doesn't seem to know them.

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left_of_the_dial
SuzyQ, I appreciate the clarification. I suppose we just might have to agree to disagree about Eckhart Tolle though. All he teaches, as far as I can tell, is the importance of quieting the mind and being aware of the present moment.>>

My friend at Pearson publishing (the world's largest assessment publisher) has only last week informed me of a work in progress to create a mindfulness assessment in the context of parenting. The relaxation response, meditation and even yoga are becoming mainstream, and science is now acknowledging the effectiveness and relevance of this to the general public. Both psychology and medical science have revealed the quantifiable benefits of such and similar. By the way, whoever manages to pull off an accurate and reliable mindfulness assessment will be quite rich. However, that will not make them a cult member or leader by virtue of.

<< I don't know if the guy is enlightened or simply deluded but I haven't seen any evidence that he has tried taking advantage of anyone. The Oprah followers that buy his books and fatten his wallet most likely have more than enough money to spare. He is not forcing anything upon anyone and most of his "followers" seem to find comfort in his product. Fraud or not, I think his writings actually do offer a lot of good advice and might be more beneficial to someone than an extra gucci/coach product.>>

Indeed. Cognitive Behavior Psychology, which by the way has been generally acknowleged to bear much in common with Buddhist philsophy, affirms the power of awareness and the fact of subconscious thoughts which work to our detriment. Additionally, it along with Tolle, affirm that we are most vulnerable to irrational cognitions which fuel mood-related maladaptive behavior when we are less mindful. If it makes anyone feel better, even some ancient Greek philosophy seems to jive with CBT.

While many here seem to hold a grudge against Tolle, I've yet to find anything that isn't simply unsubstantiated opinion, empty speculation or mere outright blatant intolerance and cheap shots with the addtional "charming" attitude that one must be an idiot or worse if one doesn't agree with the the critics of Tolle here. Accordingly, while the index aspects of the RR site are quite useful, the message board is rather problematic, bulging at the seams with far too much unsubstantiated "opinion" and some veiled religious intolerance in the guise of "free thinking" that takes on a certain degree of unwarranted credibility by virtue of being featured here at the RR site. Unfortunately the moderators seem rather apathetic in this instance.

I made this suggestion once before, but the RR website loitering egoists had only a tepid reception for it. Nevertheless, I strongly suggest that RR have disclaimers which make future readers of the message board aware of this lest the credibility of the entire RR site suffer therefrom. Even New Age types may have bad experiences with cults, and it does not make any sense to belittle and denigrate them just because some here cannot stand it that not everyone walks in lockstep with their religious or atheistic point of view. Not all New Age thought is cultic or an LGAT. Just because they may share some common terminology doesn't mean that they're all part of some giant conspiracy. To allege otherwise sounds well-intentioned but ignorant at best, and at worse sounds purposefully misleading and in extreme incidences of hate-mongering. Hitler appropriated the symbol of the swastika from Asia, neverthless I've seen belligerently ingnorant kooks on amazon make the "ingenious" deduction that just because a book has an illustration of a swastika from ancient China, that the book then promotes nazism. Even when you point out to them their error they still obstinately refuse to concede that they even "might" be wrong. I think the parallel here at the RR site is self-evident and no reasonable astute person needs the anology to be clarified.

<<Personally, I find ET fairly harmless and somewhat entertaining. Part of his appeal is that he makes people feel good without actually pushing them to do much of anything and Oprah's crowd probably likes that kind of message. I just kind of see him as a person that stumbled upon some kind of wisdom and lets people pay him money to hear him talk about it. I"m not a big fan but, on the other, I don't see him as a cult leader or even as someone who's dangerous in any way. He might be the read deal for all I know but I just don't put much faith in spiritual teachers who use their money to buy designer clothes, extravagant vehicle, living quarters, etc. Maybe that's just my prejudice.>>

I agree, for Tolle does not use the tactics of say, Landmark or Scientology. I've searched for any damning evidence at RR, but have found none. A friend had me listen to/watch some of Tolle media, and I read "A New Earth" as she gave it to me as a gift. There were no hard sales tactics or arm twisting like Landmark or Scientology, for example. He explicitly told everyone who likes his teachings to not proseletyze, but to simply help yourself secretly and with one's mouth shut. No forums, meetings or whatever are required. The webcasts were free, and one is admonished to be a SILENT presence in secret--not to proseltyze or sell anything ever. And finally, if someone doesn't "get it" so to speak, then he admonishes everyone to shut up and leave them be, again, so to speak. That's hardly an LGAT or cult. Mind you, I was a huge anti Landmark critic here. I owned and read Outrageous Betrayal as well as Cults in Our Midsts. and I spent far too much time at this site when in mourning over a friend I'd once lost to Landmark. So I know what a cult and an LGAT is versus what Tolle is not. I also read the Art of Seduction which brilliantly illustrates what cult, LGAT, corporate and political weasels do to manipulate us. Tolle does none of them I am relieved to say.

Sure, many here don't like him, and they love to speculate and/or rant about him. However, speculations and opinions don't mean jack. These very same detractors may hate the fact that he makes a good living off of his words. Others simply hate him because he dares to not think and feel the way that he does. But as long as Tolle doesn't try to force his teachings on people, then it's perfectly legitimate, so to whit: live with it, move along, and get on with your lives. Frankly, all the self-indulgent pseudo intellectual bitterness that this site has degraded into the last few years is galling and repellent. Although thankfully the index is still rational and accurate. Simply look up wicca or freemasonry here. It's quite refreshing to see RR's objectivity even though I'm not a follower of either, for otherwise I'm sure a vocal minority here would just love to say even worse things about them and similar there than they have here about Tolle. Ironically, I think that the very quasi hysterical rants about Tolle on this site may, actually, bolster Tolle's credibility about the nature of mindfulness and the lack thereof via ego and the so-called "pain body" since many here seem to literally illustrate that very thing.

Now isn't THAT ironic.

<<So my final verdict:

Eckhart Tolle - Very rich, pretty harmless, and not a cult leader

Andrew Cohen - Very rich, teaches a similar philosophy as Tolle, deluded, and definitely displays all the signs of a cult leader

Byron Katie - This is the first I've heard of her so I don't really know

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The Anticult
But Eckhart Tolle is NOT teaching Mindfulness, and certainly offers no evidence or scientific proof or studies.

But Eckhart Tolle claims he is Enlightened, and he offers no proof for this.

He is disconnected from his body, you can see it in his poor posture, and lack of physical vitality.He seems quite unhealthy, bookish, and even sickly.

Lastly, the Eckhart Tolle imaginary "pain-body" has no basis in psychology, no basis in philosophy, no basic in science whatsoever.

If Eckhart Tolle had any real credibility, he would enter into the field of psychology, or philosophy, or science, and prove his ideas.