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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 17, 2009 07:48PM

Quote
Jay Cruise
I don't know if this is helpful but I found Charlie Hayes on youtube doing "The Work" with Byron Katie.

[www.youtube.com] "Thank you for dying on time"
Man, you're good!

Byron Katie looks so angry in that video. And Charlie is a pussycat. Very different from how I witnessed him.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: Jay Cruise ()
Date: April 18, 2009 01:42PM

It's funny how easily he goes from "Deep despair" to "My father definitely should have died". It's anything but organic.

He is an ex-used car salesman turned guru and off his medication. I'm not sure if that is a great selling point.

Oh God, it's a whole network of internet gurus. Scott Kiloby, take your own advice:

[www.youtube.com] "Your Spiritual Teacher Is Full of Crap"

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 18, 2009 08:16PM

The Scott Kiloby video was laughable! All that intense gazing and babbling about nothing. I doubled over when when he lifted up that can of soda and took a big slug and then went right back into his babbling!

Interestingly he and Janaki and Charlie Hayes all share Tony Parsons as a guru.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 18, 2009 08:23PM

Charlie Hayes has written a "review" for Scott Kiloby's book, "Love's Quiet Revolution: The End of the Spiritual Search", which also includes a plug for his own stuff (and as usual, he goes on and on):

This is a potent book that inexorably brings the "spiritual seeker" back in bite size steps to That Which Never Changes. We call That "Love" - the Timeless Spaceless Infinity of the Reality that some call Paradise.

Caution to the reader, though ... you might just find that your whole long search for God, or "Liberation" or any other "Goal" simply falls apart in gales of laughter, shortly followed by a quite natural wonderment - "WOW. Done Deal. Now ... ummmm ... hey? What's for dinner? Got any beer?"

Scott has clearly gone through the Gateless Gate that he not only so eloquently describes but potently points the reader to see for herself or himself: To re-discover once and for good, what is Real ... and what is false! This is the true value in sharing (rather than posturing as a "teacher," Scott is simply sharing the reality of Love and does so with brilliance and simplicity; the hallmark of a truly "missing person!")

To meet Scott is to meet your Self. As any true expression out of The Oneness will exclaim, Scott is clear to point out that (I paraphrase) any so-called teacher who believes his own stuff to be true is spouting nonsense.

In This Timeless Loving Beingness there is NO separation or false dichotomy of "teacher/student" or "Guru/Disciple." There is nothing to get, no one to teach, no one to get no thing and who exactly thinks that there is some "liberation for me" and "maybe with THIS book I will finally attain that"? That one can never be found, yet when this pointing arises, there can be the happening that IN this Not-Finding, there it IS - it was hiding in plain sight! - This Natural Peace of Timeless Being - the Gift of Un-Knowing. LOVE and only That: LOVE IS the Only Reality. All else is Imagination.

So there is some Bad News: There is nothing to get and no one to get that

But there is also Good News: There is nothing to get and no one to get that! Ha!

To paraphrase US President Harry Truman, The Search Stops HERE.

With great respect and Love, Thanks, Scott, for patiently and perfectly pointing out the obvious Isness to all with the courage to end time's mighty dream!

--Charlie Hayes, author of No Way Out: The Gift Of Absolute Freedom and Paradise Found. www.theeternalstate.org.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2009 08:36PM by helpme2times.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: April 18, 2009 08:45PM

It reminds me a lot of when I was in Purchasing for a big company. Once word got out that logo merchandise was selling, everybody got into the game. I used to get calls from tons of representatives from companies that put your logo and tag line on pens, key chains, combs, lighters, measuring tapes, etc. That 'jump on the bandwagon' concept applies to 'ordained ministers' in the hippie days, too. You could send $10 to some place and get your certification right through the mail! Tons of people became 'ministers' in those days.

But, heck, now all you have to do is read a few stories about some New Age ideas, pick the one you like, make up a story about how you were bitten by a radio-active cockroach and became enlightened and start selling stuff. You don't even need to spend the $10 for a phony certification. Maybe the tightened wallets of today's economy will start to take it's toll on these goofs.

qd

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: Jay Cruise ()
Date: April 19, 2009 09:54AM

I don't get it. Isn't it like McDonald's advertising Burger King to have all these void guys cross-promoting one another?

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: April 20, 2009 10:48PM

Quote
Jay Cruise
I don't get it. Isn't it like McDonald's advertising Burger King to have all these void guys cross-promoting one another?

I was pretty much referring to an earlier post, regarding the load of 'sharks' that are out there. Tons of 'em, ain't there? They do seem to cross-promote for the purpose of obtaining credibility, although threads like this make that type of promotion a dicey move.

qd

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: May 21, 2009 02:08AM

Charlie Hayes has gone back on his word.

Earlier this year he stated:

"So for this New Year I have removed the 130+ videos from YouTube. I refuse to feed this addiction! I shall for the most part let those who want to play guru continue to constantly express this in more, different and better ways on YouTube. I for ONE have had enough already!"

As of today, he has a bunch of videos back up on YouTube. 27 videos!

It'll be interesting to see if more are coming down the pike...

Quote
helpme2times
#3411 - Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - Editor: Jerry Katz

Why did Charlie Hayes remove all 130 videos from his YouTube channel?

Charlie Hayes writes in his Letter:

Nothing Happens Next

Beware Of False Gurus

Greetings!

Over the past four years it has become quite clear that endless YouTube videos, the plethora of so-called "nonduality websites" and the hundreds and hundreds of books on advaita nonduality (yes, including MINE) do little else but feed the seeker's addiction to more and better and different whilst that addicted seeker steadfastly ignore what never changes - The True Self.

There is nothing to get and no person to get that nothing. So what makes you keep seeking? Look at that and see what energy is here now that drives the seeking. That same energy propels the planets and makes the sun burn.

You are That. That is the entirety of this message.

So for this New Year I have removed the 130+ videos from YouTube. I refuse to feed this addiction! I shall for the most part let those who want to play guru continue to constantly express this in more, different and better ways on YouTube. I for ONE have had enough already! It's SO simple - This you seek is just this plain old everyday waking aware being. Nothing special!

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 16, 2009 10:08PM

Here and there, Ive referred appreciatively to the work of Carl G Jung.

Recently, I have found some research done about Jungs own social context, the ideas that formed him, and it appears that he lived in part of Europe that was much like today's seekers scenes in California, Arizona, Totnes UK and Byron Bay, Australia.

However, very few ever study Jung using historic and sociological methods. If one does, some surprising things emerge.

Richard Noll was able to read German, as many Jungians cannot. He studied the intellectual movements influential at the time young Jung grew up and was finding his professional identity. He uses the methods of Weberian sociology to argue that Jung was not a scientist, but a charismatic leader of an elect society of initiates. Noll's use of the term 'cult' is sociological. Jung was not as disastrously coercive as Jim Jones or L Ron Hubbard, but he kept a lot of things secret, and resisted any attempt to apply methods of historical resource, and the Jung family still keep guard over some very sensitive papers--very different from the climate in which science is done.

By all means enjoy Jung's ideas. But...avoid the trap of discipleship. Do not become an inmate of Jungs ideas, or of anyone elses.

No one should ever put in a position of privilige so great as to be made exempt from scrutiny by an historian.

[www.wku.edu]

an interview with Richard Noll.

[www.beatrice.com]

It appears that Jung was mightily influenced by various German folk essence movements, ideologies in which notions of biological and spiritual evolution were mushed together. He was also quite fascinated by various forms of theosophy and seance, and associated with persons who were. Later, it was patients with these very same interests who sought Jung out for therapy, knowing he would respect them for these beliefs, not laugh them out of of the office.

So his beliefs about a primordial collective consciousness were unscientific generalizations from his own experience, and from a very select and biased clinical sample.

Jung concealed the sources of his actual ideas, especially authors whose names would have impaired Jungs own academic crediblity if he cited them directly, such as Bachofen. According to Noll, Bachofen influenced Jung's eventual concept of collective unconscious, but Jung never cited Bachofen as a source, for Bachofen had become an embarrassment by then.

Ive heard it said that if someone quotes authoritively from a source but does not refer to that source, it can give that person an air of authority as if they are channelling something from another world.

What is amazing is that independently of Jung, off in Italy, a quite different man also became interested in Bachofen -- and took Bachofen's ideas in some idiosyncratic directions. Julius Evola, a traditionalist and elitist who tried hard to radicalize the Italian Fascist movement (and failed).

Going from Bachofen and other such authors Jung and Evola and many others visualized some kind of pagan golden age, saw civilization and restraint as thwarting an orginal state of vitality and prescribed ways to get back to one's roots. Some methods such as psychoanalysis were private and peaceful (though expensive and affordable only to a wealthy elite)--but other methods entailed social activism and violence, such as various forms of fascism.

Jung was an elitist but was content with with his private initiatory form of analysis--a model of 'individuation' which according to Noll, ironically enough, takes Jungs own personal life as the template(!)

Unlike Jung, Evola was an elitist but did not trust in slow methods of private transformation. Evola believed social change, even when violent, was what was needed to purify a decadent civilized society and return it to its more vital life giving roots. Evola prescribed social and political action, not therapy as the remedy.

Evola and Jung both used Bachofen's ideas, but otherwise the two men wouldve probably disliked each other.

Evola's ideas later became so influential during the radical right terrorist years in Italy that someone once said that just having Evola's books in ones possesion could lead to trouble.

(Mark Sedgwick, Against the Modern World: Traditionalism and the Secret History of the Twentieth Century.

So given that I have referred to Jung in earlier posts, please see fit to examine these articles.

Any time you feel yourself getting emotionally involved in someone's body of work, check the social and historic background of the author and use independent sources.

That way, one can find a way to enjoy that author but retain one's adult autonomy.

I would especially urge anyone to read these articles if they think they wish to enter Jungian analysis or become an analyst...a hell of a lot of time and money are involved and its best to learn family secrets beforehand.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: June 19, 2009 11:15PM

Great bit of research and advice there, corboy.

qd

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