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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: THE_DEAN_001 ()
Date: April 13, 2009 06:30PM

I am a "practitioner" of Advaita but, in all honesty, I would agree with many of the points made in this thread. Advaita is a cesspool of corrupt teachers. Katie Byron, Andrew Cohen, and Eckhart Tolle use its simplicity to fool people into thinking they are "enlightened". It is even possible that many, like Charlie Hayes, still suffer from some sort of mental illness.

The people listed above are relentless self-promoters and not teachers of true Advaita. A true teacher of Advaita would advise someone with a mental illness to seek professional help and find a support group of people who are dealing with similar problems. Advaita is not supposed to be a quick escape from suffering or mental illness. It's an open investigation into oneself through meditation and self-inquiry. Unfortunately...many people use things like Advaita as a way of capitalizing on other people's problems for their own self gain.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 13, 2009 10:10PM

I agree that Charlie may still be suffering from mental illness. He has mentioned having a diagnosis of bipolar illness and could very well be in the manic aspect of that condition with his hopped up certainty that he no longer ever suffers AND can lead people to achieve the same. Consider the following lengthy announcement from Charlie in "Nonduality Salon Highlights", dated January 13, 2009:

#3411 - Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - Editor: Jerry Katz

Why did Charlie Hayes remove all 130 videos from his YouTube channel?

Charlie Hayes writes in his Letter:

Nothing Happens Next

Beware Of False Gurus

Greetings!

Over the past four years it has become quite clear that endless YouTube videos, the plethora of so-called "nonduality websites" and the hundreds and hundreds of books on advaita nonduality (yes, including MINE) do little else but feed the seeker's addiction to more and better and different whilst that addicted seeker steadfastly ignore what never changes - The True Self.

There is nothing to get and no person to get that nothing. So what makes you keep seeking? Look at that and see what energy is here now that drives the seeking. That same energy propels the planets and makes the sun burn.

You are That. That is the entirety of this message.

So for this New Year I have removed the 130+ videos from YouTube. I refuse to feed this addiction! I shall for the most part let those who want to play guru continue to constantly express this in more, different and better ways on YouTube. I for ONE have had enough already! It's SO simple - This you seek is just this plain old everyday waking aware being. Nothing special!

I shall continue to speak - by telephone or in person (not in e-mail q and a) with sincere people who are truly committed to ENDING the search rather than argue concepts and play the guru game. I am NOT a guru, make no mistake. If you want a guru look elsewhere. Moreover if you are looking for a quiet, kind, always polite and spiritually correct charlie, forget about it! The programmed personality of charlie hayes can be described as "asshole". It may be that the primary difference between charlie and you or these gurus on YouTube may be that I KNOW that "I" am an asshole where you and they may NOT know that the Human Condition is we are all upset three year old assholes. (Look at the news!)

Ever notice in video clips of Nisargadatta HE appeared to be a virile, loud and red-faced angry guy? Yet can you have any doubt that his sharing was immensely potent?

Please read the following essay and do "beware of false prophets". The guru game comes out of a bankrupt paradigm! Ponder this also ...

Seeking "Wholeness, Completion, Happiness, Love or "Liberation" from "Another", whether that "revered other" be a "Guru, Guide, Lover, or Friend", is a perfect way to avoid Paradise. Paradise is THIS. Just as it Is and just as it Isn't. All seeking "out there" is a dream of a "me", foolishly knocking on the door to Paradise, from inside Paradise. Paradise is only lost in seeking it. This Loving Oneness Cannot Be Known. To "know" Oneness there would have to be a sense of separation FROM Oneness. Who cannot see the fault in that logic?

Don't Buy Into "The Guru Club"!

A pitfall for some who are exposed to Nonduality It has been observed by many who share the Timeless Message al all being one essence, one love, one being appearing as this multidimensional dream of "me in the universe" that a common pitfall comes and the false sense of ego self comes back in the back door to claim "I GOT IT" and "I will teach it to you!"
This is a manifest lie and an expression out of a bankrupt paradigm of "guru-disciple" that has been propagated by false teachers since this so called dream began.

Here is how it works: You talk with a true expression - one offered by The One through such authentic non-teachers who have no students as John Wheeler, Bob Adamson, Gilbert Schultz, and John Greven. They point out the obviousness that YOU ARE and all that any book or so-called sage has EVER said is THAT is Being and THAT is inescapably what you are. And it is rigorously reaffirmed that every human IS already THAT. There is only THAT.

Then you get hooked into a whole new ego trip: You join "The Guru Club". You look for others who claim "I GOT IT and I TEACH IT to those poor ignorant seekers", hang out a satsang and retreat shingle, put up a website, and proceed to rake in the bucks and rupees and euros form hapless seekers desperate to "get what YOU got".

This is nothing more or less than a new "spiritual ego trip". If you encounter these sites and books that hold out a promise of gaining some magical mystical "state" grab your purse or wallet and run like hell for the exit!

So any teaching that claims to offer "you" something you are not already, namely "enlightenment, awakening or liberation", is just flat bullshitting you. You do NOT need to go to a retreat in Arizona or India or California or a satsang in Oregon or Paris or anywhere else to BE. As Bob Adamson likes to point out, the only problem is the search itself" - how can we find what already is the fact: Your own Being, which could be called "Ordinary Awareness"?

So don't get sucked in by these moneychangers, these false gurus who speak one message and yet live another. They have the concepts down pat BUT that is ALL they have - concepts and "spiritual truths" (THERE is an oxymoron for you). The bottom line is that the true sharing of this Oneness simply cannot come through these Guru-Ego trips.

You cannot get what you already are any more than space can know it is space. You cannot lose what you already are any more than a tree can not be a tree.

You need not ever buy a "Nonduality book" again - though they can be fun to read. Just don't take 'em serious or personal!

Don't give these fakes your money! Get real and get with one who really knows that YOU cannot gain anything from them and have no agenda to rope in a flock of seekers and sell books, tapes and seminars.

Whether you have been seeking The Self for a long while or just starting, this website is about ending that search RIGHT NOW.

Then you will be neither a buyer or a seller. You will be as you are here and know: Ordinary Awareness.

Take that and BE.

My final concept is this: There is Only Love. All else appears IN, ON and AS That One Love, One Essence. All Is One Full Stop.

You cannot GET That. You already ARE That. It is an Eternally Done Deal and whenever it is and wherever it is Here You Are. The One, God, Awakeness, Buddha-Nature, Christ-Consciousness or whatever other label you like to use to point to the timeless labelless IS that IS.

(My note: as of March 15, 2009, Charlie is back on YouTube! What happened to his claim as noted above that he is no longer going to play that game?! The fact that he had 130+ videos up does seem to indicate mania. Here is a link to the video which is currently up: There is NO "Reference Point" in Being.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2009 10:33PM by helpme2times.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: April 13, 2009 10:32PM

One of the downsides of being atheistic, is that it seems kinda pointless to scream, "God, save me from these fucking assholes."

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 13, 2009 11:31PM

Charlie Hayes is copying Werner Erhard with his ASSHOLE trip.
That was Wener's favorite word, they called them ESTholes.
Asshole, Esthole, same thing. Verbal abuse to dominate.

Maybe Charlie Hayes thought he'd get more "personal client coaching" with no YouTube vids given for free?
But found he got less clients, so he put his vids back.

What a bunch of sharks, cruising the sea of the internet, looking for some easy pickings.

The problem is not the Advaita philosophy, or drinking one's own urine, or whatever.
The problem is the scamming, the sales, the abuse etc.

Hey, people can feel at One With The Universe daily...That's Non-Dual, its not harmful.

Also, materialist athiests, are actually Non-Dual. They are more non-dual, than the non-dualists.
Being a non-theist Naturalist, is completely non-dual.
:-)

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: THE_DEAN_001 ()
Date: April 14, 2009 01:01AM

I actually agree with Charlie Hayes that John Wheeler, Bob Adamson, and John Greven are all good teachers of Advaita. Charlie Hayes name drops these good teachers and puts up endless youtube videos because of his constant needs for attention and credibility. To my knowledge...Charlie Hayes went to follow Bob Adamson many years ago and Bob Adamson asked Charlie to leave(i.e. had him thrown out). I can only assume this was due to Charlies obsessive personality and/or mental disorder.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 14, 2009 01:22AM

Quote
The Anticult
Charlie Hayes is copying Werner Erhard with his ASSHOLE trip.
That was Wener's favorite word, they called them ESTholes.
Asshole, Esthole, same thing. Verbal abuse to dominate.
My exhusband took an EST seminar many years ago and spoke of ESTholes. Hee.

At his "nondualityexpression" YouTube account, Charlie says he did EST and later spent "several months working directly with est founder Werner Erhard".

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 14, 2009 05:56AM

Charlie Hayes enjoys making up Stories too.
He should list that as well..."I enjoy making up stories and name-dropping to try and make myself seem important so you will buy my stuff".

Several months working directly with Werner Erhard?
At best, that means he worked for no pay for the EST org, running errands, etc. But he does sound brainwashed by EST even now. Anyone still calling themselves an ASSHOLE...

And being a supporter of Werner Erhard is nothing to brag about. Werner was one of the most abusive, crooked LGAT gurus in history. That is why Werner Erhard now is hiding offshore, living on a boat!

Quote
helpme2times
Quote
The Anticult
Charlie Hayes is copying Werner Erhard with his ASSHOLE trip.
That was Wener's favorite word, they called them ESTholes.
Asshole, Esthole, same thing. Verbal abuse to dominate.
My exhusband took an EST seminar many years ago and spoke of ESTholes. Hee.

At his "nondualityexpression" YouTube account, Charlie says he did EST and later spent "several months working directly with est founder Werner Erhard".

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: April 17, 2009 05:47AM

Quote

Several months working directly with Werner Erhard?
At best, that means he worked for no pay for the EST org, running errands, etc. But he does sound brainwashed by EST even now. Anyone still calling themselves an ASSHOLE...

That was one of the funny things about some twelve step groups--you at first called yourself an asshole. Later, when you had been around a long time and were perhaps a 'bleeding deacon' you got to call everyone else an asshole.

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Ramesh Balsekar
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 17, 2009 08:54AM

[[url=http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/ramesh_balsekar.html]On The Controversy Over Ramesh Balsekar - by Timothy Conway[/url]]

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Re: Abuse in the Name of Advaita - Charlie Hayes et al.
Posted by: Jay Cruise ()
Date: April 17, 2009 05:07PM

I don't know if this is helpful but I found Charlie Hayes on youtube doing "The Work" with Byron Katie.

[www.youtube.com] "Thank you for dying on time"

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