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heron
I looked on Amazon for other books and I chose Belzebuub’s book because it had 22 reviews and most of those customer’s had given it five-stars based on the fact that it was an easy to understand method that had apparently worked for them.

Thanks Heron for your time and effort to post.
As for the reviews its a common tactic for members to give themselves good customer reports to make themselves look good. Of course they dont let the reader know that the good ratings come from members.

You'll find SAW supporters shamelessly self promoting themselves on various interent sites, youtube commentary sections, wikipedia articles etc. "You know how great this book is. It has help my life.....blah blah blah." (of course once again they dont tell you they are members when they do that.)

Quote
heron
I received the books and an initial glance at the astral book left me unimpressed as it was nothing like the Monroe book and seemed to be full of mantras, conjurations, mythology and religious clap-trap.

You will also notice alot of Aun Weor's books are rhetoric & propaganda pieces.

Its also meant to lead you to certain "conclusions".
This 'leading method' has been documented among cult watch specialists.
You can view some of the methods used in this parody video about cults:
[www.youtube.com]

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notanantiGnostic
Hi Keir,
Most of the supporters of the Weor teachings are intentionally ignorant of most of what he or any teachers has to to say. This is the only way they could follow his teaching and not live on a compound somewhere. I remember when I was leaving and I wanted friends who I had met during my time with the Gnostic movement to see the problems, all of them simply misinterpreted the information or made up excuses related to loyalty which they had learned in another activity from events in their live before they fell in with the cult.

You are absolutely correct NotanantiGnostic. I find that to be the case as well.
The more I have read over the years the more contradictions and misinterpretation I find in Weor's teachings.

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notanantiGnostic
Hi Keir,
Good stuff by the way Keir. Understanding language and its nature is really important for breaking the spell of these fanatics.

So the Beetles were evil, according to Weor? Wow talk about a black and white way of looking a the world.

Thank you NotanantiGnostic.
You have contrbuted greatly to the threads on these pseudo gnostic groups.

I was suprise when I first heard about his views of the Beetles.
His "visitation" by Martians and space aliens are just as insane.

I would like to post something that might help ex members with moving on. it is post form somewhere else on this site. This person is dealing with accepting regular society again and is also learning about how a cult is cult, in that i mean it helps to say that even thou it might feel like it is either the cult or the world it is much more complicated then that. There is only the world, with its many paths, fanatical groups are just a part of that world. It can help to see that someone else has come from experience of a teacher with a totally different teaching also claiming to the one true person to follow and putting his or her students through the same nonsense you have been through.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Dear Mr. NotanantiGnostic:

I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was necessary to get more academic with my speech before I would be heard. Please go back and read my new post at "Fake Sweat" and see what you have as response now.

I also didn't realize I had to meet certain criteria before my experience could be labeled "cult-like."

If I do not belong on this web site, I apologize.

I have some thoughts that might help people who are working on leaving the Gnostic Movement lead by Mark Pritchard who has a delusional fantasy about being the mythical creation called Bezlebuub. I will try to deliver them in as orderly a manner as possible.

First Mark and the Gnostic Movement or Gnosticweb seemed to have covered themselves pretty well, with all the disclosure statements and statements denying responsibility. If anyone has been hurt by these teachings and is interested in taking action, they should really look in whether it is actually hold any legal weight to deny responsibility to the extent that they do. I just can't over that, someone who preaches responsibility trying to deny it, but anyways. Legal disclaimers only really work for matters that relate to civil law or in other words lawsuits. That means that you can get them on issues of criminal law and I think there are many opportunities for that if anyone looks closely even for example there are issues of the abuse that he levels on student of the higher levels and teachers, I have seen it in the forums and then watched them delete it and I have heard several stories. I can't varify this but I am sure if someone dug deep enough a case could be built. If anyone can see the Quebec 2004 videos you will see how abusive he is towards the teachers and trainees.

Also I wonder if the IRS would be interested in knowing how a registered charity pays for a leader of its organization but does not actually do any tangible quantifiable or accountable work for the organization. The present themselves as a business when it suits their purpose, a charity when it suits their purpose or a non profit when it suits their purpose. But I am still asking myself on a day to day basis what work does that man actually do for this organization.

If enough customers got together they could probably file a class action lawsuit of false advertisement regarding the books that they were sold.

Second I would like to state, that it is my opinion that Mark H. Pritchard is absolutely full of it, a fake and a liar. Since I heard it I thought his teaching that there is only one path and people who belief otherwise are being tricked by the devil. Obviously he hasn't done their research as that concept was invented by the early Orthodox or Catholic Church to attack people who had believes who didn't conform, including those who called themselves GNOSTICs. He is more like the early church fathers and authorities than any other form of religion or spirituality. I have been reading some well researched and thought out books on Christian history and I have come to this conclusion. True Gnostic's have always accepted diversity and the idea that they human experience is the one path but there many ways to interpret it.

I really wonder now if Mark even knows how to astral project, it is possible that he just got all his ideas from other people books. His knowledge of out of Body experiences and astral projection is really poor from what I have heard and he generally appears to be a very dishonest person. Clearly I have learned that whatever happens in the dream time it is very subjective.

Third belief in egos by definition is superstitious. I think this is important as he criticizes other people for being superstitious. according to the oxford dictionary, a superstition is a belief in the supernatural; irrational fear of the unknown. Since no one in the Movement can actually explain what an ego is and they always resort to explaining what an ego does or the function it used to perform I think it is pretty safe to say that egos are superstition. Sure defects of character are real but they no more not you then your hand is not you, if you study buddhist teachings you will see that they teach that nothing that we identify as being who we are is actually us. the Samaelean concept of egos is a perversion of this idea.

Ok that is enough for now I hope it is helpful. If anyone wants any clarification of what I have said here then let me know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2009 07:40AM by notanantiGnostic.

The whole situation is very confusing, because Gnosticweb users offered me reasonable, sound advice about my problems initially. I was struggling with the question "is my orange the same as your orange", or do we see the world the same way?
Someone said that eliminating the egos would make me see the world in a more objective way, and that it would help me see and let go of thoughts as they left my mind, in order to change my reaction to the world, rather than become frustrated.
That sounds like good advice, but then how do you explain the horrible behavior and judgements that go on there? Clearly someone who followed this advice would not say things like "happiness is bad because the path to hell is lined with roses". A spiritual teacher would not delete and censor posts either. People would say "in my oppinion, the world would seem like a good place because the devil makes it seem that way." Whose oppinion is that? The user's or Belzeboob/Samael's oppinion?


Later I concluded they were a cult. It is confusing, though, because they work in such a subtle way.

I posted the video "how to start a cult" on their forums. It got deleted, but some people saw the vid and posted messages about it.

One user accused me of being a fanatic. That's odd. In my oppinion, the video is an exact description of their organization.

I would like to show you the post, but I don't ever want to go back to that website. Just search under "cults" and find the topic "what is awareness", or something like that

Also, I made another post in the spirituality section titled Transpersonal psychology.


In the end, I just can't believe how fanatic someone like Belzebuub can be. I didn't belive it was a cult at first because I was skeptical that anyone could possibly be so hypocritical, evil, and downright deluded. Either he is crazy, or else he knows that he is causing harm to others but is still confident and proud of his judgements anyway. What do you think?



By the way...

the land for dinasaurre is jarassic land. I like dinasaurre

I also liked this video (especially the second half).

[www.youtube.com]

(This is not spam. Its just my way of getting my mind away from circular arguments and seeking the power of humor).

hi all

i have just spent the last hour reading through this thread so apolagies in advance for any miss spealt words etc. the eyes have gone a bit wonky from looking at the screen but i just couldn't bring myself to stop reading...
i just want to thank notanantignostic and others for your time in posting some very honest and indept thoughts on gnosticweb and modern gnosis in general...
a bit of background info might be appropiate now.... i've not been to any of the centres in fact its only in the last 2 weeks that i've come across the word gnosis but by what a journey its been so far... due to circumstances (life..lol..) i'm only now getting the time to go exploring and find out reasons and meanings for the things i believe and feel..my path so far has led me to the gnostics and i'm trying to cut through all the stuff thats out there on the net and get what i can...anyhows to cut a long story short i was led to the gnosticweb site and joined a few days ago yet within a day or two i've realised by going through some of the forum chat etc that some of what the say, in my mind just doesn't make sense... notanantignostic you've gone in to great detail about what you feel is wrong with the "master" and the workings of said organisation but if i could just bring it back to basics from what i've learnt so far and what i feel myself the definition of a gnostic is someone who is looking for enlightment, not someone telling people what they should and shouldn't believe in.... in the space of 2 days i've listened to my own inner voice which told me something wasn't right with it and now here i am.... i think what i'm trying to say is that you guys are doing a great job trying to warn youngsters of these places but those of us who are already on our journey will find our way....
before i started reading this thread i was loosing heart but i realise now there are people out there who are genuine....thank you..

by the way notanantignostic did you finish reading the book by tom harpur ..... would you recommend it

Nice to hear from you Cosbird,

Considering what you have told me, I would definitely recommend you read the Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur. I has really turned out to be the book that I needed, it sounds like I am on similar search to you. I am a bit of a slow reader, mostly I haven't finished reading it yet because I am so amazed by all the details and good information that i just have to keep stopping to write notes on either the text or thoughts that are coming up. The book is stated to basically be about the true origins of Christianity and how all that is within Christianity was already in preexisting religions. Really I had no idea how well it would connect in with my research interests, actually transcending Gnosticism and Christianity to get at the universal spirituality in a way that also deals with the problems between science and religion. I now have the most inclusive and open view of spirituality I have had in a long time. This may be also partially because of my practicing yoga but the Pagan Christ is also really helping. Yeah so I can understand world religion, mythology and dream imagery in a way I haven't before. I finally really understand the Ancient Egyptian religion after years of studying it off and on. Oh and not only does Tom give an excellent understanding, as an ex Anglican Priest he gives guidance on how to look into what he calls Cosmic Christianity, if after reading the book that is what you are interested in. For me I think that would be at least part of what I want to look into.

I really like your assessment of the Gnostic Movement, when I got involved I was clearly to desperate to find a group to connect with instead of researching on my own. Now I see that there are several safe options. Hopefully this forum will serve as a warning to vulnerable as well as an assist to those who are working on leaving. From what I hear almost everyone leaves the Gnostic Movement at some point, as I was talking about before it is even part of the culture of the organization. But I really wonder what state those people are in when they leave.

In regards to Free_355 I think Mark Pritchard is very sick and I feel great compassion for him, but I feel much more compassion for his victims.

I would like to comment on a little bit more of the manipulative language and cult speak that they use.

A few minutes ago I was checking something on their website, generally I still like to monitor their activity once and a while, it is probably a habit. I came across a disturbing article about how they were spreading into Ethiopia at the request of some students. They were all quite please with themselves as it had been student initiated and the claim was that they got so many people because the Gnostic Movement was an alternative to the various "religious" movements in the country, as opposed to the fact that cult is taking advantage of spiritual and psychologically vulnerable population.

You may have heard they claim to not be a religion, this very much ties in with their believe that they don't have beliefs. To be this not having beliefs or being a religion is just part of an extremely fanatical mindset, which is highly suggestive and passed from one person to another quite easily viral. Essentially because of the supposed divine nature of their "master" the teachers are not beliefs as you would have with a religion but facts given by divine beings and all other ways of interpretation come for the devil. It is never actually stated that way but essentially that is what is going on.

The one word that they use that is quite disturbing to me is Gnosis. The word Gnosis means that someone has achieved some inner realization of the state of existance and the universe. It is similar to enlightenment but it occurs in stages. When various people who are active in the site where commenting on this new group that had started they would make comments about how it was so great that Gnosis had reached these people. As if just by getting a very superficial poorly developed teaching people have achieved Gnosis. Also by using the word this way they are implying that the only way to achieve Gnosis is through the Gnostic Movement, which anyone who has take the later course can atest to as what they belief. This is nonsense and is poorly a curruption of the Gnostic worldview that comes from the teachings of Orthodox Christianity (Orthodox as in what most people think of Christianity not specifically the orthodox church) who has a tradition of thinking that all other peoples of the world are evil.

I hope this will help.