Quote
corboy
If this set up is active in California, get the word to the gay media that their internal policies are homophobic.

The whole Samael Aun Weor movement is like that. One common trait is that the majority of them are highly fanatical.
They are broken into many splinter groups. Some left when Samael Aun Weor (real name Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez) was alive . The bulk majority left when he died.
They are in about 40 countries or so. Mostly in South America. They have spread into alot of other continentes like Europe and Asia.

btw Its not just against gays but also women as well. Very similar to Christian fundamentalist attitudes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2009 05:20AM by Keir.

I talked about their philosophy (how they were a cult) on the astral dynamics forum, who were very friendly and helpful.

But Gnosticweb tracked the messages down and made a litigation and defamation threat, just for me telling the truth.

I sent messages to some users on youtube, giving solid reasons why it was a mythomania cult. But they were still brainwashed. They all said something like

"you are distorting the information you do not understand"

or

"That is not true. Belzebuub clearly says"

or

"what you say is not based on experience"

I'm just going to leave them alone and let other people deal with them. There's nothing I can do, because it isn't my problem that they are a stupid cult.

The Samael Aun Weor movement isnt one organization so one can be critical of him or the entire movement. If you dont name specific organizations they cant do much. It is their intent to silence all criticism of them. Very cultish!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 05:51AM by Keir.

"what you say is not based on experience"
Problem with that is not all occultists are experiencing the same experiences (in particular in regards to the "astral plane".) Keep in mind Samael also took historical authentic teachings from other occult systems.
Not to mention why do you think all these Samael followers are broken up into all these sects? If they are all experincing the same thing (in the "astral plane") you would think they would be all one big group now wouldnt you? They see what they want to see.

Free 995:

If you don't mind my asking, would you be so kind as to provide a definition of a 'mythomania cult'?

It's an unusual phrase I've never heard before, and sounds like it has some intriguing implications.

[en.wikipedia.org]

[en.wikipedia.org]


I like eggs! But I don't like Belzebuub. He's stupid.




BTW, have you seen how innocent their retreat advertisements are? Its manipulation.

Anyway, what are the experiences people actually have when they supposedly see Samael on the astral plane?

Does he say something like "stop tapping your foot. That is the way of the black lodge." Or does he say "you may appear to look good on the outside, but deeper down your intentions are damned and evil. You are unaware and lack the experience of me as the master of everything visible and invisible in the universe. Let go of your ego and you will see how damned you really are. The devil is good at making the world an illusion of a good place. The path to hell is lined with roses"



crayfish



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 06:42PM by Free_955.

Quote
Free_955
Anyway, what are the experiences people actually have when they supposedly see Samael on the astral plane?

Does he say something like "stop tapping your foot. That is the way of the black lodge." Or does he say "you may appear to look good on the outside, but deeper down your intentions are damned and evil. You are unaware and lack the experience of me as the master of everything visible and invisible in the universe. Let go of your ego and you will see how damned you really are. The devil is good at making the world an illusion of a good place. The path to hell is lined with roses"



crayfish

Those people have been so indoctrinated and conditioned they see what they want to see.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2009 08:18AM by Keir.

Hi Everyone,

It is late for me and I just got back home from Cancun, I was on holidays all last week. I thought I should write to let you know I am still involved and I will write my thoughts on the discussion that went on when I was away as soon as I can.

It is very interesting what Keir wrote on thursday.There are a lot of claims of legitimacy of astral travel and lucid dreaming. These reports of people seeing Samael in their dreams point out just how subjective the astral is. No one really knows how people get intuitive knowledge when they are sleeping. But the explanations given by the Gnostic Movement or any other Samaelean teachings are not sound. They are based on a misunderstanding of the human brain and consciousness.

The man who called himself Samael had dishonestly and hubris written all over him. You can see it in writings. Personally I only stuck with Mark Pritchard's teachings because i expected some level of denoucement of the Samael Aun Weor teachings or at least some explanation for the level of intolerance he had. Not sure how to explain but it was probably a little of both that I was expecting and of course I was being delusional. I feel now that I knew better.

Hi Free_355

I hope all is well with you, I thought I would respond to some of your comments.

Has something happened to your astral dynamics forum chat? I am just wondering if there were some attacks on it as it is now restricted to only members?

Where agents of the Gnostic Movement able to shut you up anywhere else like on youtube? I am interested to see how effective they are in getting various organizations on the internet to silence dissatisfied apostates from their organization.

Mostly I found your comments about how they claim that former students didn't understand something or Belzebuub says this or that. Interesting that they never say what they are actually thinking (or at least what I expect them to think), that it is "just someones egos" or "negative entities are influencing them".

You may find a response written by Jordan, the local leader in Toronto, to my posting in the general Samael Discussion. [forum.culteducation.com]

Clearly he is fearmongering, trying to make me feel guilty, calling me a liar and generally doing everything he can to shut me up. All this despite the fact that he presents himself as being interested in dialogue and correcting lies or mistaken ideas I may have.

His expression of interest was clearly not an honest one as he has not responded at all anymore now that he sees I am not going to easilly bend to his will. If he feels that any statement made here is unfair he is completely within his right to mention it here as long as he abides by the rules of the forum. Obviously if there are any problems with the rules of the forum that should be brought up as well.

Lets discuss.

The actions I describe here are a good example of the activities that I believe were happening to you and people like you in other places. Seems pretty cultish to me.

Quote
notanantiGnostic
I am interested to see how effective they are in getting various organizations on the internet to silence dissatisfied apostates from their organization.

I believe gnosis-sos.org was spamed and intimidated by tons of Weor followers and was eventually shut down. That site had alot of good testamonies from former members and knew their methods of operation in South America.

I think alot of organizations do similar campaigns to silence any dissents. I believe Scientology is pretty big on that. I hear they even set up pseudo "anti Cult" websites in an attempt to distance themselves from being called "a cult". Its nothing but a propaganda & Public Relationship stunt in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2009 07:46AM by Keir.