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Re: Desteni
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 20, 2010 04:20AM


The movie is thus, indeed, not Asimov's robot stories, but it contains a comment on Asimov's robot stories. The robots are liberated, and they thus become both more human and less threatening in the process. This ironic point is a brilliant and original payoff for the story. Although we might wonder if the matter really would turn out as it does in the movie, this nevertheless does make more sense than Asimov's outcome. That is because, along with not understanding how computers were going to work, another problem with Asimov's stories is a total absense of an understanding of economics.



At the same time, it is unlikely that a Hollywood movie would deliberately explode Asimov's illusions of control or Cargo Cult presumptions, since most people in Hollywood subscribe to precisely those confusions. In its own terms, the movie is, indeed, a nice comment on Asimov, not because the robots could not control the economy, but because, as the robot says, it would be "heartless" -- and we would be unhappy, without the new products and increasing wealth, let alone the freedom, that we look forward to. Instead, the robots get their own freedom also.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Cresil1HumanOST ()
Date: November 20, 2010 11:13AM

Desteni cult member Anna Brix Thomsen on the movie, "I, Robot":

"The movie is a cool picture of how some people have seen the Equal Money System as a totalitarian regime that is out to restrict and control people - instead of seeing the Common Sense that the background for the Equal Money System is a Consideration of what is in Fact Best for All, as a practical, Livable Solution based on Equations that takes Everything into Consideration and not a Utopian ideology of a dream-world or a totalitarian regime out to control everyone"


That is an example of 'reaching',
and how one twists information for their own uses and mental settings/possessed tunneled visioned observational understandings.
Has she realized this?

- Cresil

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 11:14AM by Cresil1HumanOST.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 20, 2010 11:49AM

She is likely parroting the loaded language that has been fed to her over time, all those important capital letter words.

'what is in Fact Best for All'

Who decides what is best for all and on what basis do they weigh up the available options?

An equation, or even several 'Equations that takes Everything into Consideration' cannot make a decision, only an individual human brain can do that.
No individual human brain is ever so free of bias that it can claim that its decision making is equivalent to the mathematical logic of an equation, or even a capitalised Equation.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Cresil1HumanOST ()
Date: November 20, 2010 12:06PM

'The Best for all' is only considered 'better' by the group itself,
and it's 'whole', which are those whom strictly pledge allegiance to this 'way of living',
which can get to a point in it's ideology, where the members of it can understand nothing
(hardly what's best for others), beyond it's own prideful nature and potentially mis-guided 'solutions'.

Thus it enforces it's ways onto others,
deaf and dumb to their own actions,
as they can hear no one but themselves and their peer's support.
The peers, that might have been senselessly 're-educated',
used for the 'better of the whole's needs or agenda' (which are then commonly dis-carted after 'they're' use has been exhausted,
as what's best for the whole doesn't give a damn, but for it's own selfishness.),
or you are actually enjoying yourself with-in the 'security' and 'power' of the group,
as a community member.

This will not stand.

Wisdom, Freedom, Independence. Shall Stand.

- Cresil

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 20, 2010 07:41PM

'as they can hear no one but themselves and their peer's support.'

We learn language, words and sentence construction, by hearing others speak to us. Eventually this is internalised and becomes a part of our thought process. Babies learn to speak and think this way. Most language schools now use the immersion method--by constantly hearing the new foreign words and sentences they become a part of the thought process without the student noticing that this is happening.

By focusing so closely on the 'Best for All' and their peers use of Desteni-speak, the Desteni-ite is trapping him/herself deeper into that small world. Soon they can only think in Desteni-speak. The Desteni words have a particular meaning, one that is different from the conventional meaning of those words in the outside world. Once that meaning is internalised then the only people with whom the Desteni-ites can communicate are other Desteni-ites who hold the same particular meanings for the words in use.
Its a classic vicious circle.

The way out of this is to slowly replace the Desteni meanings with conventional meanings again--taken from a standard dictionary---and to start and keep using those words in a conventional way. It is important not to get angry at or hate the Desteni-speak, as it is now a part of our thought process, in our own brain--and it is not a good idea to direct anger and hate at our own brain.
Our brain was, after all, only doing what it was designed for and what it does best--learning something new.

Confidence comes from doing--finding new meanings and using them until they become internalised is an active process. It takes time and patience but as there is no other way, and as our brains respond best to a calm, patient instructor--it is worth developing a calm and patient attitude towards the process and with oneself.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 07:45PM by Stoic.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 21, 2010 10:07AM

It's good to hear from you again, Cresil.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Cresil1HumanOST ()
Date: November 22, 2010 01:49AM

Always a pleasure to greet you as well.
I've been watching this entire time, and while there was a period
in-which I found this board's on-goings to be distaste, it was only to my own personal preference.
If I might assist anyone, please feel free to ask.

- Cresil

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Desteni, tithing
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: December 17, 2010 09:02PM

Here's a curious video from Bernard Poolman:

Process Support - Tithing

He describes how the Desteni organization isn't generating enough revenue and if it carries on that way they will have to get rid of the farm. Apparently, a bank owns the farm.

He claims that Desteni is a "political" organization but may have to become a non-profit religious organization and implement tithing to get more money. Funnily enough, he makes a comparison with the Church of Scientology.

So, Desteni members, as well as paying out for various online courses in how to be "Destonian", may soon be expected to give ten per cent of their income to the company.

A look at the output of the people in Desteni as they try to recruit new members with promotional videos shows them parroting the opinions and slogans of Poolman and droning on about inconsequential personal concerns. As though that is going to transform the global economic situation. Clearly, it's not even making any real improvement in the economic situation of the Desteni business, and now Poolman is admitting it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2010 09:05PM by Sandman.

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Re: Desteni, tithing
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: December 17, 2010 10:21PM

Yes, fascinating. A very different, financially astute Bernard on display there. (back on the meds?)

So he has been turned down by Paypal, who are very hot indeed on MLM and pyramid schemes being processed through their facility. He clearly doesn't have a merchant account for credit cards, the same problem arises.

So he's looking to set up an NGO, a non-profit organisation and is only awaiting the formalities of the paperwork to be finished. I don't know how closely SA monitors its non governmental organisations but it might be worth pointing out the Desteni Income Plan and its curious pyramid features to the relevant licensing office in SA so that they know what they are dealing with when considering Bernards paperwork.

Bernard does make the point in the vid that he wants to avoid bringing notice to the Desteni Income Plan while he tries to ape Scientology and set up a Desteni religion so that he can tithe the members and pay the 100% mortgage on his farm.
If he wants to keep the connections quiet that is a good enough reason, I think, to let the authorities in on the subterfuge.

There was a point in the video where Bernard almost said what he meant. Having bad-mouthed religion as a rip-off previously, he is feeling the pinch and trying to rationalise the 'if you can't beat them, join them' argument, using Scientology as a model.
He says, roughly, at 12.26, that setting up as a religion will allow him to take........I filled in "money off people" before he thought better of it and went off into his loaded language that is significant to him at least, if no-one else.

The tithing, teething play on words is quite funny, with Bernard admitting that he has to employ capitalist measures to bring on the Utopia of Equal Money, yeah right.
His Desteni-ites must grow adult teeth now to bite into the capitalist system and get bitten themselves. No point in them coming to the farm until they have sorted out an income in their own countries in order to pay the tithe to fund Bernard's mortgage payments.

Only 200 more Desteni Income plan members needed to cover the basic running costs for the farm, so probably only about 10 or less members at present.

The Desteni Farm holidays sounds interesting. I bet that few unknowing holiday makers who pay for a month on the farm expect to be recruited into Bernards cult and pyramid scheme.
There must be some kind of oversight body that polices farm stay holidays for payment. The SA Tourist Board or equivalent will not want to endorse such innocent holidaymakers being inducted into Desteni...what terrible PR that would be for a country that relies quite heavily on tourism for income.

So, the grand plan is not working out quite so well, income is slow, its back to the drawing board.
Bernard is harking back to his own cult experience with an 'eastern avatar' who sold hamburgers claiming they were gifts from god? and you can hear the cogs creaking in his brain as he works out what he can sell as a gift from god to bring about the Utopian dream of Equal Money, Equality for All, through capitalist means, of course and only once Bernard has paid off the mortgage on his farm with the proceeds, naturally.

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Re: Desteni, tithing, start your own religion to get rich, Scientology
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 18, 2010 12:28AM

Yep, if you want to scam the public, like LR Hubbard said, you need to start your own new religion.
Then you can get all those tax loopholes.

Even in cryonics, they started the Church of Venturism for the same purpose. Apparently the Church of Satan operates in a similar manner.

Then they get their followers to "tithe" 10%, like many churches pitch. (10% of your Gross of course, not your Net!)
Once they get people to give them 10% of their money, for free, then they work on them to give more. They try to get them up to 50%.

They always go down the same path.
Ending up starting a new religion "Church" for tax loopholes, and getting fee money from followers.
A totally cynical ploy.

next step, like a TV preacher, is to constantly say...WE ARE LOSING THE CHURCH WE NEED MORE MONEY FROM YOU...
rinse and repeat for 25 years.

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