Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 30, 2010 03:15AM
Okay, perhaps I should have qualified that as 'targeted traffic.' As any professional salesman will confirm, general interest traffic does not buy. A salesman is looking for qualified leads, those with at least an interest in buying--in internet terms that is called targeted traffic and you don't get that from a casual footfall or from the many free traffic sources touted by IM'ers.
Whether or not Desteni manages to scrape together a few dollars from advertising, the Desteni Income Plan is a pyramid selling scheme and I wonder why you are defending this?
BTW, no-one sets up a pyramid selling scheme in order to profit from the PPC ads that just happen to be on the same web page. The pyramid scheme is a fraudulent vehicle designed to con buyers out of their money.
Whether or not Desteni manages to scrape together a few dollars from advertising, the Desteni Income Plan is a pyramid selling scheme and I wonder why you are defending this?
BTW, no-one sets up a pyramid selling scheme in order to profit from the PPC ads that just happen to be on the same web page. The pyramid scheme is a fraudulent vehicle designed to con buyers out of their money.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 30, 2010 03:23AM
'Some of the sites which will appear, really do work for generating decent amounts of traffic.'
How do you know this until the sites are up and the traffic stats are compiled over a period of time?
Do you or Poolman have a crystal ball?
Not even the most professional web page designer knows what traffic any particular page will generate until that page is up and running and the stats monitored. The honest ones will readily admit this. It is the reason there are so many traffic monitoring sites in operation. Its also the reason that there are professional web designers who are forever tweaking the format of existing pages in an attempt to narrow down exactly what is driving the traffic and how to increase that factor.
How do you know this until the sites are up and the traffic stats are compiled over a period of time?
Do you or Poolman have a crystal ball?
Not even the most professional web page designer knows what traffic any particular page will generate until that page is up and running and the stats monitored. The honest ones will readily admit this. It is the reason there are so many traffic monitoring sites in operation. Its also the reason that there are professional web designers who are forever tweaking the format of existing pages in an attempt to narrow down exactly what is driving the traffic and how to increase that factor.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
ForeverNoMatterWhat
()
Date: September 30, 2010 06:05AM
I don't mean to sound like I am defending desteni schemes, I am just not sure the way it's being implemented is illegal. I might be wrong.
Because it's the function of the website traffic generator websites. You can test it on a youtube page which counts views, by using that as the website to be promoted.
What do you mean by this? Do these sites not involve downline building?
____________________________________________Quote
Stoic
How do you know this until the sites are up and the traffic stats are compiled over a period of time?
Do you or Poolman have a crystal ball?
Because it's the function of the website traffic generator websites. You can test it on a youtube page which counts views, by using that as the website to be promoted.
Quote
Stoic
BTW, no-one sets up a pyramid selling scheme in order to profit from the PPC ads that just happen to be on the same web page.
What do you mean by this? Do these sites not involve downline building?
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
ForeverNoMatterWhat
()
Date: September 30, 2010 06:05AM
I don't mean to sound like I am defending desteni schemes, I am just not sure the way it's being implemented is illegal. I might be wrong.
Because it's the function of the website traffic generator websites. You can test it on a youtube page which counts views, by using that as the website to be promoted.
What do you mean by this? Do these sites not involve downline building?
_____________
Sorry for double post
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2010 06:05AM by ForeverNoMatterWhat.
____________________________________________Quote
Stoic
How do you know this until the sites are up and the traffic stats are compiled over a period of time?
Do you or Poolman have a crystal ball?
Because it's the function of the website traffic generator websites. You can test it on a youtube page which counts views, by using that as the website to be promoted.
Quote
Stoic
BTW, no-one sets up a pyramid selling scheme in order to profit from the PPC ads that just happen to be on the same web page.
What do you mean by this? Do these sites not involve downline building?
_____________
Sorry for double post
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2010 06:05AM by ForeverNoMatterWhat.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 30, 2010 07:40AM
'You can test it on a youtube page which counts views, by using that as the website to be promoted.'
A million YouTube views will not necessarily generate one sale. The two are completely different beasts.
ForeverNoMatterWhat, I do sincerely hope that you have not bought into this as your understanding of sales is abysmally primitive.
If you also cannot see why a pyramid scheme is a con and why that is illegal perhaps you should buy in and find out the hard way. Some of us only ever learn that way but it is a poor, risky and counter-productive way to learn.
As to what I mean regarding the PPC ads, it was in response to your remark: ' Traffic might not merit sales of the "Desteni Plan" but could potentially bring in advertising revenue.'
PPC ads typically produce a few dollars a day in total on any given web page, the amount per click varies but a typical payout will be $0.01 per ad clicked on.
If, as you seem to be suggesting, Poolman has cooked up the Desteni Income Plan- which is an illegal pyramid scheme- in order to profit from the PPC ads and not to actually sell membership in the pyramid scheme then he is considerably more deluded than even I gave him credit for.
Good luck with your downline building, no website will do it for you with or without PPC ads, YouTube view counters or Poolmans crystal ball that predicts your computer screen turning into an ATM machine.
You really need to start critically questioning the rubbish that Poolman is feeding you.
A million YouTube views will not necessarily generate one sale. The two are completely different beasts.
ForeverNoMatterWhat, I do sincerely hope that you have not bought into this as your understanding of sales is abysmally primitive.
If you also cannot see why a pyramid scheme is a con and why that is illegal perhaps you should buy in and find out the hard way. Some of us only ever learn that way but it is a poor, risky and counter-productive way to learn.
As to what I mean regarding the PPC ads, it was in response to your remark: ' Traffic might not merit sales of the "Desteni Plan" but could potentially bring in advertising revenue.'
PPC ads typically produce a few dollars a day in total on any given web page, the amount per click varies but a typical payout will be $0.01 per ad clicked on.
If, as you seem to be suggesting, Poolman has cooked up the Desteni Income Plan- which is an illegal pyramid scheme- in order to profit from the PPC ads and not to actually sell membership in the pyramid scheme then he is considerably more deluded than even I gave him credit for.
Good luck with your downline building, no website will do it for you with or without PPC ads, YouTube view counters or Poolmans crystal ball that predicts your computer screen turning into an ATM machine.
You really need to start critically questioning the rubbish that Poolman is feeding you.
Desteni income plan, power of ten
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: September 30, 2010 07:54AM
An information graphic that describes a pyramid scheme
[dillonthompson.com]
Pyramid Schemes:
What Are Pyramid Schemes and How Do They Work
[www.consumerfraudreporting.org]
How to Report a Fraud or Scam
[www.consumerfraudreporting.org]
[dillonthompson.com]
Pyramid Schemes:
What Are Pyramid Schemes and How Do They Work
[www.consumerfraudreporting.org]
How to Report a Fraud or Scam
[www.consumerfraudreporting.org]
Desteni income plan, Desteni pyramid scheme
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: September 30, 2010 08:19AM
Thanks, Stoic, for the detailed background info on pyramid selling schemes.
Would you say there is a case for reporting Poolman/Desteni to the authorities in South Africa? Would it be taken seriously and investigated?
Would you say there is a case for reporting Poolman/Desteni to the authorities in South Africa? Would it be taken seriously and investigated?
Re: Desteni income plan, Desteni pyramid scheme
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 30, 2010 04:14PM
I can't say how seriously anyone will take this or how much investigation will be done but any Fraud Squad relies on members of the public coming forward with information that they have been offered by a conman.
The member of the public can do this with an assurance of relative anonymity. The schematic that I saw in the Desteni Income Plan with the pictures of of the pyramid, one person at the top, ten in the next tier, 100 in the next and so on, with the financial compensation packages on the drawing for each tier is enough to show that this is a classic recruitment scam and thus a pyramid scheme.
If the member of the public is one who has actually bought in and thus suffered a financial loss---been defrauded--that would prompt more interest since police the world over are more interested in crimes that are in progress or have been already committed than a theoretical scheme. I don't know how far this scheme has progressed from the drawing board.
It is worth passing on that information and any other information that can be seen as encouragements to join the scheme as that will alert the authorities to a conman at work. They may not prosecute in any particular case but conmen are opportunists, there will always be another con for the conman to try on his victims. The more information that the authorities can collect on any particular conman, the more chance they will have of a successful prosecution at some point. The legal system is not in the business of warning off criminals, they get points for successful prosecutions.
The member of the public can do this with an assurance of relative anonymity. The schematic that I saw in the Desteni Income Plan with the pictures of of the pyramid, one person at the top, ten in the next tier, 100 in the next and so on, with the financial compensation packages on the drawing for each tier is enough to show that this is a classic recruitment scam and thus a pyramid scheme.
If the member of the public is one who has actually bought in and thus suffered a financial loss---been defrauded--that would prompt more interest since police the world over are more interested in crimes that are in progress or have been already committed than a theoretical scheme. I don't know how far this scheme has progressed from the drawing board.
It is worth passing on that information and any other information that can be seen as encouragements to join the scheme as that will alert the authorities to a conman at work. They may not prosecute in any particular case but conmen are opportunists, there will always be another con for the conman to try on his victims. The more information that the authorities can collect on any particular conman, the more chance they will have of a successful prosecution at some point. The legal system is not in the business of warning off criminals, they get points for successful prosecutions.
Re: Desteni income plan, Desteni pyramid scheme
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: September 30, 2010 09:44PM
@ForeverNoMatterWhat,
'I am just not sure the way it's being implemented is illegal'
A simple way to test this would be to take printouts of material relating to the scheme to your local Citizens Advice Bureau, Neighbourhood Law Centre or friendly local police station and get them to take a look and give an informed opinion.
'I am just not sure the way it's being implemented is illegal'
A simple way to test this would be to take printouts of material relating to the scheme to your local Citizens Advice Bureau, Neighbourhood Law Centre or friendly local police station and get them to take a look and give an informed opinion.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
it's edenheart
()
Date: October 02, 2010 09:27PM
So after looking at the pyramid scheme material I did a few calculations which I thought I'd share. (I can go into detail on where I got the figures from if needed)
I basically worked out that (although it is impossible it will ever happen, I thought we should know the numbers we're talking about) if 1 person recommends 10 people, they recommend 10 people and they all recomend 10 people, then we have 1111 people involed.
The total money that Desteni would pay out to all of these people, providing no more recommending went on after this point from any of the members at the botton, is 437,500 South African Rand. That is worked out with you getting paid for your recruits, buddies and passives line 1. Then your recruits having recruits and buddies. and they're recruits having recruits. I believe I worked it all out correctly but if anyone wants to look over my math feel free to ask. So as I was saying, Desteni will pay out 437,500 South African Rand (39,840 GBP / 45,782 Euroes / 63,079 US Dollars)
As far as I could tell from the information on the scheme, is that everyone must purchase the SRA course, as they all plan to sell it on in future. The cost of the SRA course is 34,401.5 Rand, this amount x 1111 (the amount of people purchasing it) comes to 38.220066 million Rand. After subtracting the 437,500 rand that they pay out to the people selling it, this leaves Poolman with a nice total of 37.782566 million Rand ( 3.44064044 million GBP / 5.447566 million US Dollars / 3.95381478 million euros)
As if these figures were not startling enough, Desteni now states that "all new students require to first follow the Introduction to Desteni." A course coming in at 11,467 rand, this x 1111 is 12.740025 million Rand ( 1.16016069 million GBP / 1.83688241 million US Dollars / 1.3331996 million Euros)
So assuming this happened it would bring Poolman profit to 50.522591 million rand ( 4.60080113 million GBP / 7.28444841 US Dollars / 5.28701438 euros.)
Obviously this is not going to happen, they are not going to get this many people, nowhere near. But I think this shows that we're talking about serious money. And that with even a few people buying into it, Poolman could make a lot of money, and it is plausible leave Desteni and do a runner with it. And hopefully the money that Desteni pays out and the money they take in will convince anyone still unsure, that this is a pyramid scheme, plain and simple.
With the evidence we already have, and these calculations showing how it works, surely this would be enough to have a fraud department take this seriously?
Peace out
It's edenheart.
I basically worked out that (although it is impossible it will ever happen, I thought we should know the numbers we're talking about) if 1 person recommends 10 people, they recommend 10 people and they all recomend 10 people, then we have 1111 people involed.
The total money that Desteni would pay out to all of these people, providing no more recommending went on after this point from any of the members at the botton, is 437,500 South African Rand. That is worked out with you getting paid for your recruits, buddies and passives line 1. Then your recruits having recruits and buddies. and they're recruits having recruits. I believe I worked it all out correctly but if anyone wants to look over my math feel free to ask. So as I was saying, Desteni will pay out 437,500 South African Rand (39,840 GBP / 45,782 Euroes / 63,079 US Dollars)
As far as I could tell from the information on the scheme, is that everyone must purchase the SRA course, as they all plan to sell it on in future. The cost of the SRA course is 34,401.5 Rand, this amount x 1111 (the amount of people purchasing it) comes to 38.220066 million Rand. After subtracting the 437,500 rand that they pay out to the people selling it, this leaves Poolman with a nice total of 37.782566 million Rand ( 3.44064044 million GBP / 5.447566 million US Dollars / 3.95381478 million euros)
As if these figures were not startling enough, Desteni now states that "all new students require to first follow the Introduction to Desteni." A course coming in at 11,467 rand, this x 1111 is 12.740025 million Rand ( 1.16016069 million GBP / 1.83688241 million US Dollars / 1.3331996 million Euros)
So assuming this happened it would bring Poolman profit to 50.522591 million rand ( 4.60080113 million GBP / 7.28444841 US Dollars / 5.28701438 euros.)
Obviously this is not going to happen, they are not going to get this many people, nowhere near. But I think this shows that we're talking about serious money. And that with even a few people buying into it, Poolman could make a lot of money, and it is plausible leave Desteni and do a runner with it. And hopefully the money that Desteni pays out and the money they take in will convince anyone still unsure, that this is a pyramid scheme, plain and simple.
With the evidence we already have, and these calculations showing how it works, surely this would be enough to have a fraud department take this seriously?
Peace out
It's edenheart.
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