Anticult:

Thanks for the link and the perspective. It most definitely IS harder to get out of the newage (yes, small caps and rhymes with sewage) than it is to get in. That's why I put forth such intense effort. It's the least I can do to put this energy into my deprogramming, since I put so much energy into getting myself INTO the mire.

I always hope that these (and my) posts help somebody; they certainly do help me.

qd

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solea13
Just to clarify - I'm not American. I don't want to get into details for the sake of privacy, but I was not born or raised here. I imagine that there are many people of different nationalities posting on this board, don't you think? I do speak a little French from time spent living in that country also.

Probably... It is tricky though... Especially when it turns to US politics. Thing, too, is that if you travel a lot (as I did until the last two years), you do get to 'see' a lot of different 'life perspectives'. By & large, as I'm sure you know, travelling in & around Europe is so much easier than say, for ex. from Oz to somewhere else... I also know from living in the US that people there just don't get any time off – the most, if they're lucky that is – is a fortnight. And then of course, money is a big issue, too (that applies for Aussies as well....& the way things are going, for the rest of the world...!).

So, yeah, travelling really teaches you more than sitting in the library all day or behind one's pc...(grin-wink)!

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My comment about 'black and white thinking' was not directed towards you personally, I meant it generally. I think we can all succumb to 'black and white thinking' from time to time. I know I have in the past and I do try to guard against it.

Oh, ok, gotcha...! Smile. I try to write 'one' instead of you because it is more impersonal... So aware of the language, somehow...

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I was using N. Korea as an example of a more totalitarian state than the US. Perhaps you would prefer me to say more 'obviously' totalitarian than the US ... ?

Yeah...I think that would make sense...

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I'm glad that you had already discovered Arthur Deikman's work. I think it's good that you started some new threads in which to discuss the topics that are of interest to you.

Um, I feel that becoming aware is a very difficult & tricky road to say the least... There is so much resistance, too, because of the intrinsically stored memory of one's own experience with cults/sects or its 'methodology'. A lot of people that have not experienced the aftermath of the 2nd WW cannot really begin to relate to why we are much more aware of the whole 'propaganda drivel' that 'cloaks' itself as 'political truth'...

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'Recovering from New Age Mumbo Jumbo' seems to mean different things to different people. Some of the people in my group believed that they had been 'liberated' from the cult of American society. Those people had no problem in ignoring and breaking normal social mores. For example:

-They would happily lie to people on the 'outside' because those individuals were considered to be 'asleep' and that they were being deceived for their own benefit.
-They had no problem stealing money to pay for 'higher level' classes.
- They would cut themselves off from their families because family members were 'asleep' and 'unspiritual'.
- In general if an individual got sick it was because of something they had done karmically to bring it upon themselves.

Yes, I hear you. And, I am glad to say that for me it has not really ever gotten that much out of hand, just bad enough to know that I was burned badly & I will always try to fight anything that looks remotely like taking on that form, no matter how 'benign' it might seem on the outset... Like I said in my "what cult were you in?" I always walked away of my own accord – and I s'pose I've never really been 'owned' to the degree of being held a literal 'prisoner' of a cult – a thought I'd not rather not engage in...

My country of residence is too antagonistically geared to be susceptible to the degrees of a Jim Jones cult or 'Scientology'. Jehova's Witnesses are absolutely hated round these parts. And, it might surprise you, but it has a lot to do with what the country had to go through under the Nazi regime (the Nazi regime was a cult, too, BTW, & Hitler was their cult leader - it's just that a lot of people do not really know the background of how it all started...).

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So those are just a few examples of the kind of New Age Mumbo Jumbo that I am in the process of recovering from.

I cannot even imagine having to been down that path that deeply – granted I've fallen for one con after another but I guess bucking authority – period! – is a pretty good 'built-in' protective mechanism to never fall privy to such a degree for anyone telling how or what to think or how to act & behave...

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The Anticult
one has to sort out valuable mythology and things of that nature

Did you know that Hitler was majorily into mythology, astrology & the occult? I don't know if you're aware of it, but Hitler was part of a little known occult group called "The Thule Society". The other major important influence was "The Vril Society". The Nazis were the first to build 'man-made' Ufos – their proper description was "Foo fighters" that were used for only a short period of time during WWII (and, Wernher von Braun was then 'hired' by the Americans & ended up being the founder of NASA [www.n-tv.de] From the Nazis to the NASA).

The whole SS 'brotherhood' (Bruderschaft der Schwarzen Sonne) was built on German mythology – of 'tales of an ancient race' with ties going back to Tibetan Buddhism (I am not kidding!) as well as the Upanishads & Veda myths....

So, as you can see 'new age mumbo jumbo' has only ever been 'updated' throughout the centuries...to be 'adapted' to a new 'audience'. Again, this isn't conspiracy stuff (at the risk of boring Sparky to bits) – it is officially known as a part of the whole Nazi myth – the Aryan race ('Brotherhood' – so nothing much new there) & it is also one of the reasons Nazi-ism has never left the landscape...

It isn't really 'neo-'nazism.

The point in fact is that they have never left.

If people would actually realise this they wouldn't need to scratch their head in disbelief. It's simply knowing history & seeing the consequences & 'spreading' of the Nazi mentality all over the globe – exported to all corners of the world – the Colognia Dignidad in Chile is one such example. Here's another article from n-tv, a German information channel that has run a whole tv series on Hitler's occultists (Rudolf Hess was way into astrology). The article in particular relates how in 1938, Germans in Argentina were celebrating Austria's "joining" the German Reich.

[www.n-tv.de] - short excerpt (if you read German):

QUOTE

20.000 Deutsche und Österreicher feiern am 10. April 1938 im Luna-Park von Buenos Aires in Lederhosen, Trachten und mit Hitler-Gruß den "Anschluss" der Alpenrepublik an das Deutsche Reich.

UNQUOTE

On 23rd of June '08 n-tv showed a repeat of "Hitler's mystics" (a two part series [www.n-tv.de]). The synopsis read:

Die "arische Herrenrasse" sollte wiederauferstehen und jeder noch so abstruse Mummenschanz war den Nazis dafür recht. Heidnische Bräuche, nordische Sagen und mystische Astrologie waren ein unheilvolles Gemisch, um Adolf Hitler als neuen Messias zu stilisieren. Die Nazi-Elite selbst befragte die Sterne und SS-Chef Himmler hielt sich gar für die Wiedergeburt des mittelalterlichen Königs Heinrich I. Mit welchen okkulten Mitteln die Nazis ihr sogenanntes "Tausendjähriges Reich" etablieren wollten, dokumentiert diese Reportage.

Translation:

"The Aryan Master race was to rise once more & every absurd masquerade was 'appropriate' in the Nazi's view. Pagan rites, Nordic sagas & mystical astrology were an ominous combination to 'stylise' Adolf Hitler as The New Messiah!!!. The Nazi elite itself consulted the stars & SS Chief (Heinrich) Himmler thought himself to be the reincarnation of the medieval king Henry the 1st. This report documents with which occult methods the Nazis were attempting to reliven their 1000 year reign."

Note:
So, the 3rd Reich never left. That isn't a conspiracy it's just plain fact. The German Nazi mentality is stronger than ever. And, by the looks of it, Obama is busy establishing the 4th reich in the US (same economic problematic circumstances, same 'approach' to "masquerading" him as "The Messiah" - check out the subliminals & you'll see what I mean).

Those who have experienced the Nazi regime have already tried to warn the American public that he is using the very same tactics & emulating Hitler's "Arbeit macht frei" - "Work frees you" - the enforced labour camps by 'Obamanation', forcing everybody to do 'labour/commjunity work' in the US. The whole scenario is replay of what happened before Hitler came to power. That's why it is so dangerous...

The new age mumbo jumbo courtesy brought to you via satellite/national tv....! History repeats itself all over again...!

And it works like a dream every single time because people don't know or remember history!!!!

Ignorance is bliss - or is it?

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from sheer nonsense, and even deliberate lies, and even mental illness in some cases. No wonder people get lost in that morass for life.

Hitler was crazy. So was Jim Jones or is Robert Mugabe. Different races, same mental illnesses... And, make no mistake, it is still very strongly present in the German mindset "Bei uns zuhaus!" - meaning "on our homefront it's all still best!"

I'll have a deeper look into the skepdic website though...

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but falling into the New Age trap is 1000x easier than getting out of it. we have to develop a strong Bullshit Detector.

Well, the dumbing down of the masses certainly is instrumental in achieving this & has a lot to do with it. It makes the whole thing a lot easier to achieve. The ignorance of US citizens is truly quite unnerving. One has to have experienced it 'live' because it really is truly quite unbelievable. I'm not sure what it's like in Oz, but on the continent this side, we at least still have what one could refer to as proper journalism (& I'm not talking about the 'average' Krauts here). The French are by far more intellectual & scrutinising than the Germans.

The Beeb (BBC) has also become more convoluted lately...

Certainly, ignorance of history seems to be the real problem – and, let's not forget that most of how the world has & is gravitating towards with head-on full speed is the paradigm of "keep 'em distracted 'methodology'" & 'info-tainment' rather than real news.

Spin is a great way to spread misinformation - Rupert Murdoch, as I'm sure you know, is the unquestioned leader in this. Even more so than Ted Turner ever was with his CNN.

I'm not saying there's not garbage tv on this side of the pond either, but there is still a bit more sophisticated real news that can be considered as such. And, of course, the more language channels you have available (uh, provided you understand the language!), the more diverse the 'format' of the news is.

New age nonsense is more rampant these days than it's ever been - 'thanks' to garbage tv, garbage food (which has an immediate impact on one's ability to apply one's brains to the utmost extent & to function properly - period!) as well as environmental influences that slow down your overall ability to stay awake.

I am not joking! If you have ever seen unmarked planes in the sky – which I saw time & time again when I lived in LA, CA, seeing the weird spraying these planes emit, and the headaches that people experienced thereafter - you might have an idea what I'm talking about.

Of course, one actually would have to notice the planes in the first place before being able to make the connection!

Good sources of information make all the difference. And, a nation that has had to fight for its sovereignity under the Nazi regime is much less likely to 'surrender' to the prepared BS propaganda (which also opens the 'doors' to being susceptible to other dubious BS sold as 'alternative' "new age crap") because they can see it for what is because they've been through the whole spiel before.

BTW, the Germans are still the most prone to this - might be surprising ... but nothing is obvious... Like I said, they've never really 'recovered' from their own myths....! New age crap then has easy game with them folks...

That's one of the biggest differences between the 'old' continent & the fairly "new" ones that have been 'conquered' by European settlers not that long ago compared to their 'recent histories'.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2008 04:29AM by xythos.

I can't and won't go into all of everything, of course.

But Hitler and the Nazi's would be classified as a cult of murder and power, and they used mass-influence techniques...like late-night propaganda rallies, and everything else. (but Byron Katie literally thinks Hitler's killers were doing the work of her "God"...had to put that in).

Neo-Nazis are classified as a Hate Group, and there is even a forum at this website for that subject. There are active cults of hate.

And because Hitler used mythological symbols, does that make mythology evil? Of course not, for example, some aspects of mythology can be inspirational as a metaphor, or in art, etc.

But for example, is that the same class of information as supposed "Chemtrails"?
If one runs Chemtrails through the BS detector, do they survive?
[users.tpg.com.au]
Chemtrails fail on literally every single point of the BS kit.
Why spray above a city, when it would hit ground hundreds of miles away? Why not drop it into the water supply? Why poison themselves? (etc).

Chemtrails (contrails)
[skepdic.com]

Bottom line, Chemtrails are a paranoid conspiracy theory, which have nothing to do with "cults" and are perhaps New Age mumbo, but closer to pure paranoid conspiracy.
They are simple condensation trails and atmospheric conditions.

anyway, there are ways of thinking to sort through the madness of the world, and makes some sense out of it. But its damn hard work, and takes a lot of effort to do the research.
That is, real research, based on hard evidence.
Chemtrails are actually a good practice example.

Another would be alleged Aura's, or alleged Levitation, and things of that nature. One has to take them on a case by case basis.

Again, this is just a general comment for internet readers...conspiracy theories seem to be similar to fundamentalist religion, they don't change no matter how the evidence is presented.
Sometimes people will figure things out on their own...usually not though, it seems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2008 05:53AM by The Anticult.

The Anticult: Contrails? YIKES! Why give this any power here by actually talking about conspiracy theories? I know it is so tempting to slam the "low-hanging fruit" which comprises conspiracy theories. There are real hurting people who were abused and maltreated by newage (rhymes with 'sewage' hat tip to quackdave!) sharks and need our support and ears.
Answering conspiracy theories here only devalues this thread. Let the conspiracy nuts (my opinion only) start a new thread if one doesn't exist already so the rest of us don't have to waste our time reading their nonsense.

(and yes, The Anticult, I couldn't agree anymore with you about the stupidity [my opinion only] of the believers in the horrors of condensation trails left by high altitude jet air traffic).

I only put that Chemtrail stuff in as a point of reference.
There are many people who believe things along the lines of Chemtrails, I have met many of them in person, and none of them are crazy, not even close. They all had jobs, houses, and were doing as well as anyone.

It seems to be a type of paranoid worldview, combined with a lack of science based background, and limited critical thinking. I don't know of any science based people who believe stuff like that...they might believe something else!!

That being said, I know some very intelligent folks who have some very strange beliefs, along the lines of alien conspiracies. There seems to be a correlation between that, and frequent cannibas consumption!
and the New Age beliefs are the rule, and not the exception.

but those folks are crazy at all.
There is far more to it than that, I think.

Its a huge subject, but the human mind seems wired up to believe weird things, it always has.
but New Agey Mumbo Jumbo now is the rule, not the exception.

I only put that Chemtrail stuff in as a point of reference.
There are many people who believe things along the lines of Chemtrails, I have met many of them in person, and none of them are crazy, not even close. They all had jobs, houses, and were doing as well as anyone.

It seems to be a type of paranoid worldview, combined with a lack of science based background, and limited critical thinking. I don't know of any science based people who believe stuff like that...they might believe something else!!

That being said, I know some very intelligent folks who have some very strange beliefs, along the lines of alien conspiracies. There seems to be a correlation between that, and frequent cannibas consumption!
and the New Age beliefs are the rule, and not the exception.

but those folks are not crazy at all.
There is far more to it than that, I think.

Its a huge subject, but the human mind seems wired up to believe weird things, it always has.
but New Agey Mumbo Jumbo now is the rule, not the exception.

Sadly. I must agree with you, The Anticult. I was not meaning to say chemtrails are not a possibly interesting topic, only that answering/demeaning conspiracy theorists really needs a separate thread to get into correctly for those interested in so doing. Just look into the "terrorist" subset here. There are more "fire can't melt steel" folks than I care to mention.

I know many intellegent newagers as well, they are smart in so many ways but not in cold logic when it comes to an "exciting" topic. Maybe it is as simple as that...everyone's lives are so typically boring or predictable that the newage and conspiracy theorists (hitherknown as Brilliant Scientists...aka BS) find a thrill running up and down their legs at dealing with something outside of their area of expertise which they take at face (or guru) value.

I can understand how some things (UFOs, psychic powers, etc) can be mingled within the realm of "government coverups" and therefore; conspiracies.

My one question is this...when has the CIA/US government/ANY government successfully covered up something so big as any of these? They (government agencies) can't even deliver the mail if there is a blizzard.

Guys, I do not care what or if chemtrails are conspiracy or not. All I can tell you is that chemtrails are different from the contrails. It might surprise you that I do know the difference - duh! - & oddly, I have only ever seen them in the US, never here on mainland Europe.

I don't consider it 'conspiracy crap' (& sparky, I would appreciate if you'd try to stop making yourself look the smartass you're attempting to be - sorry to ask the obvious, what's your IQ? 'Stupidity'? Mirror, mirror on the wall... And, uh, BTW, who was entrapped into a cult here? Hm?). I just know the effects I experienced from the planes' weird emissions 'fuel'. And they were breathing difficulties, coughing, headaches, feeling unwell.

And, I also would appreciate if people would stop un-validating my life experiences.

Particularly The Anticult trying to 'imply' that I am 'mentally unstable' (or, more plainly put - crazy). You have to have some serious gall to even suggest something like this to somebody else they don't know & have never met in person!!!! Maybe it's time to look in the mirror, mate. It's extremely rude. Same goes for the individual who doesn't know whether they are a 'bird' or a 'fish' - you know who you are.

I'm not interested in engaging in conspiracy drivel. We don't need more BS than what we're already dealing with. Most people, as I have said to The Anticult elsewhere, can't handle the Truth - least of all their own unresolved BS! Escape hatches are still fully 'in place' in spite of their own 'de-/illusions' - because that's how they've functioned for the majority of their life.

I have never stopped working on myself & I won't because I don't have the "luxury" to become complacent!!! It's not on my agenda!

AC, what do you think Hitler's "murder cult" was? It was a "Hate club", capice?

Target group: The Jews!

Who's got a mental block? It ain't me, that much I know! And Spark's right behind ya - 'clapping you on'.

If you haven't gotten that by now, I really don't think you've any business trying to wave your SkepDic & Haunted World book in my face. If anyone's been haunted I think it's you mate. More so than I probably ever was.

Just pointing out the obvious big boy.

Seems, too, that the two of you have forgotten that I mentioned the deliberate dumbing down of the masses - which is unfortunately much more rampant in the US - & I doubt that's it that much different in Oz. So, please spare me this trying to load it off on me & admit that you guys have fallen harder for the whole guru BS than I ever did, ok? I've walked out, remember?

Thank you.

And, it might 'relieve' The Anticult & "Sparks" (-not!), & CB-/'girl' whatever - that I'm withdrawing from here on out.

Aren't you so happy now? You can slap each other self-congratulatory on your shoulders! Good to be in the company of same level mentality. Sooo re-assuring, ain't it just? Lovelay!

Mental blocks are the biggest blocks to learn & actually expand your awareness. So you can now stick with each other, guys/girls & can comfort each other that you've gotten good rid of me now. Should bring a self-satisfied smirk to your faces.

'Stupidity' has its own reward. Herd mentality is true & well still ingrained in your system.

And you can now openly engage in slandering me & calling me whatever you want to your small-/narrow minded content. You've really come a loooong way, haven't you just?!?!?

Well done!

Merry Christmas guys! I'm outta here.

Ciao

Lets stay focused on the topic of this thread.

Conspiracy theories are a distraction from the matter at hand.

There are plenty of internet venues where one can freely talk about conspiracy theories.

RR.com is for a different purpose.