Oh, I didn't answer the question about the Dalai Lama saying that is was not necessarily wrong to have sex with students. This was online about five years ago, and it was a reputable site, I can't find this online now.

Corboy: As usual, you raise a great many good points, and in fact there is not even one thing that you have said that I disagree with. I particularly loved your comment that gurus should not discriminate by the youth or looks of women if it is really about spirituality! Very true! As to having sex disturbing the brahma-viharas, in my observation, no. A healthy sex life is a good thing, chastity can also be a good thing, both can be a part of a spiritual life.

I do not view myself as an apologist. As a founder member of the peak Buddhist groups in Australia and New Zealand, I've played my part in exposing fakes. I've watched gurus (Sangharakshita, Sogyal Rinpoche, Ole Nydahl) go in a direction that I don't consider good. I've always refused, even when I was requested, to become someone in the 'inner hierarchy', and I'm also no longer a part of the 'Buddhist organisational scene', being more known as a writer and musician. The reason for this is I absolutely do not want any power over others. I more follow what Namkhai Norbu said in his 'Little Song of Do as You Please' (uf I don't have a copy of this in front of me): "I avoid the confusion of the so-called Dharma centres".

For the record, the advice I would give anyone who asked me would be: do not join the FWBO or attend teachings. If you are interested, attend teachings by Ole Nydahl but I would not accept initiations from him nor join his centres. Perhaps attend Rigpa centres to study there, I wouldn't pay any big money nor would I become involved in organisation, I'd be a bit cautious. I personally found enormous benefit in following the teaching given to me by Sogyal Rinpoche, but that is very, very different to say that I accept everything like a gulper eel. I've certainly debated and disagreed with him in public. There are question marks: you can find places without question marks.

I'm still closely associated with my own gurus, who have no criticism or scandal attached to them. I completely agree with your very useful and true comments about people enabling their own power or sense of self-worth especially by associating with secretive gurus. If you read the other posts I made yesterday, you'll find I praise organisations that keep open books, open records, and open committees, and that I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT ACCEPT organisations that have closed committees and closed records. I don't like gurus that give teaching and then disappear off to some secret place with their oooooooh big students, who then strut around and try to lord it over others (and I've seen Sogyal Rinpoche tell his organisers off whenever they displayed this type of egotism). A guru's personal life should be completely open, with one caveat: celebrities of any type are entitled to their own lives, to privacy and protection against paparazzi and against dangerous and crazy people (as one example, the absolutely unimpeachable Chatral Rinpoche had someone come up to him in a teaching in about 2008 and try to stab him to death, since then he has had to be more careful). People like Dzongsar Khyentse and Namkhai Norbu are very approachable and socialise freely and openly with their students. I let gurus teach and advise and criticise me, but any that have tried to bully me I've told in no uncertain terms and in public that I do not accept such behaviour.

As to what you accept about Hannah: Generally I'm one of those guys that women like and pour their hearts out to. I wasn't 'aiding her macho husband' (sorry I'm in the preview pane so I can't quote what you said exactly). I was helping him organise some stuff, as I helped some dozens of lamas organise stuff, because people keep on asking me even though I'd rather avoid it. I mean doing posters and booking halls, I don't mean associating closely with the lamas involved. Yes, you may be right in saying she felt that she had to support her husband in public, This does not I think include such a spontaneous smile. I was closer to her than Ole (I certainly liked her a lot better), and I got the impression she was a very strong-willed woman. It is quite a shock to me to learn that she has passed away, I think that is a sda loss to the world indeed. Incidentally, I know of some women that have had sex with lamas. They were (and are) close friends and they were positive about that connection. These lamas were not trying to pretend that wanting sex was some kind of spiritual teaching. I also know of some women that were coerced and abused by fake lamas, in fact, I was extremely close to one horrible and heartrending tale. This was not a real lama but an ex Tibetan monk who claimed to be a lama. That was a very bad case.

When you are considering what I say: I've only seen things here in Australia and New Zealand. I can't comment on gurus, but rock stars and celebrities that are notorious for bad behaviour do not behave like this in Australia and New Zealand. If they do, they get kicked out and are banned from returning. What I hear from all gurus here is that they are more relaxed. One reason for this is perhaps that Australian and New Zealanders have no cult of celebrity. We don't accept misbehavior in leaders, and since the populations are small, things get around very fast. There are also quite strict laws about things like disclosing finances. So if someone like ie Sogyal Rinpche was misbehaving, it would be much more risky for him to do it here.

I'm participating in this forum because I am very strongly opposed to gurus abusing students. I think these people should be outed whoever they are. I've also seen a huge amount of criticism against gurus that I know to be unfair, unjust, and often defamatory lies. I've seen the reputations of very good and humanitarian people be destroyed for no fair reason. Buddhist teachings, any religious teachings, are full of people with very real mental and personality problems.

Therefore I'm participating in this discussion and I am listening carefully to what is said. I'm telling you my own observation and experience, and I'm listening to yours. From what I know of Sogyal Rinpoche, I can believe that what is said about him could possibly be true, but as far as I can see and judge, some things are certainly not true. What I am looking for here is reason and truth.

Eloquence and scholarship are naught when used to serve an evil cause.

Remembrance Day is a week away.

Here is a sample of rhetoric from a younger Winston Churchill to justify a bad faith stance towards Turkey during the Great War and the chain of decision making that led to up to the slaughter at Gallipoli.

[www.britishempire.co.uk]

It is ugly for young and idealistic persons to be treated as expendables, whether in service to a guru's lust or to the ambitions of statesmen.

" The Diamond of Devotional Denial " - Corboy this is brilliant. I will try to contribute :)

Dear Prince of Novgorod and all your gutsy citizen soldiers (cue Prokofiev's score)

It would not be at all difficult to write the DDD sutra. One need only look over the message board and make a collection of the rationalizations used over the years.

Plenty of them can be found just on this thread.

Dedicate the sutra to Majushri whose flaming discernment cuts through piles of bullshit at one swift stroke.

Dear Alexander N

I wrote some items on the Andrew Cohen thread.

you can read from this page on forward.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Ken Wilber has been one of the most active practitioners of devotional denial.

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

entire page on the Lightgate forum is worth your time. Ken Wilber wrote a vile and obscene
essay in 2006 when people criticized him for befriending and protecting a series of abusive gurus. Ken then claimed he meant this essay as a joke and that anyone who found it offensive and did not comprehend that the essay was a work of comedy was too unevolved.

(I call it being so unevolved that you eat shit and taste it as shit, when a highly evolved person will taste it as sugar--or at the very least, ignore their nausea and claim they tasted it is sugar.)


Here are discernment questions to ask before selecting someone as your lama, rinpoche or guru.

Quote


Questions to Ask When Selecting a Guru

1 Does he bite?
2 Is he good with children?
3 How much does he eat and how much will it cost to feed him?
4 If he isnt neutered and you dont intend to have him neutered, are you
prepared to put up with a guru who tries to hump everything in sight?
5 Is the guru you are considering well bred and does he come with papers (And not just a Post it note from Muktananda (or one of the the Karmapas) that has to be translated ad nauseam to make it seem more profound than it actually is?

[bewareofthegod.blogspot.com]

If the guru is from a foreign country or supporting some higher guru in a foreign country, one might also ask, in question #6, how much money one must give the guru to send to India or Tibet, or Pakistan or some other place where you donors will lose track of it and be assured its all to serve the Dharma and that if you find out its being used to pay for expensive weddings, expensive college educations for a legion of relatives, its all your deluded mind and none of your business, anyway.

Ask also if the guru has expensive tastes in real estate or art. You, after all, have to pay for it.

More material for the proposed sutra Diamond of Devotional Denialism, kindly cited by Blue Dakini

[forum.culteducation.com]

Sidebar to Sogyal Rinpoche feature in French news magazine Marianne



Profession: Guru’s slave



In November 1994, a young woman known as Janice Doe laid charges against Sogyal Rinpoche for “physical, sexual and mental abuse”. The issue was settled out of court. A sum of money was paid to the plaintiff.



Even if no legal complaints have been made since then, forums on the internet are packed with accounts from students who have since left Sogyal Rinpoche’s association due to a behaviour judged as “non conventional”.

Daniel Genty is the creator of a blog dedicated to the spiritual path called “Les voies de l’âme” (The paths of the soul). In October 2007, he posted on his blog an extract from The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying which had particularly pleased him. To his surprise, he got over 462 responses. Some were extremely hostile towards the spiritual leader of Lerab Ling.

Rinpoche claims he belongs to a tradition of “crazy wisdom” A particularly inappropriate inheritance for Westerners, because he includes all types of practice, but specially sex, as a path to enlightenment for his students.. “The master, it is like fire,” says one of the guru’s close disciples .” If we are far away we feel cold; if we are too close to him, we get burned.” Mimi, who worked as a personal assistant to the master for 3 years, is one of those who got burned. “My job was to be at his disposal: to wash him, dress him, to transmit his orders to the others, sleep at the foot of his bed just in case he’d need me, and to organize his travels.”

(French kings had a retinue of persons to dress them, wash them, attend to them. Frederick the Great of Prussia said that if he were king of France, he would appoint someone to stand in for him to endure all this ceremonial. Corboy)
To take care of the master is not an easy task. Every trip that Rinpoche makes mobilises dozens of people and conforms to rules comparable to the British royal protocol.

The privileged “collaborator” is issued a document of several dozen pages with instructions to follow: to make sure there is always food and drinks in his car, that someone is waiting for him to open the car door at his arrival, to request beef on the menu every time he has to take the plane (far from being vegetarian, the master loves beef) as well as booking a seat at the front of the cabin... the list is endless. “After 4 months on this regime, you feel exhausted, you can’t think properly. The day he asked me to undress, I took it as another test to assess my devotion”, says Mimi.

A “test” which has been presented to her as a great opportunity whose secret she had to keep with her, at all costs. Now she has definitively left the master, the former disciple has taken the decision to speak. She testified in a documentary about power abuse entitled “In the Name of Enlightenment”. Produced by Debi Goodwin, the film was shown the 23th May 2011 on the Canadian channel Vision TV. Mimi is working on an autobiographical account of her encounters in Buddhism. Members of the master's entourage insist that Sogyal Rinpoche is not a monk and that he is entitled to have sex with his pupils if they are willing:

“Everything the master does is done with the purpose of bringing enlightenment. If the female student doesn’t understand how lucky she is to have such connection with her master, it is because her ego is in force. It is a real shame.”

Corboy I will be honest with you; I do not have a problem with Ken Wilber neither I have with Sogyal Rinpoche. On the contrary Sogyal Rinpoche's groups I have met were significantly less fanatic than diamondway groups I have had encounters with. When it is about Wilber; I do not understand how one can even pack Wilber and Ole Nydahl into one and the same category. Wilber was and continues to be an important philosopher and I do not want to be involved into any social notion which undermines his work.

What I have a problem with is Diamond way groups’ mob psychology. I have a problem with groups which foster fundamentalism, organize lynching and exclude diamondway practitioners from the possibility to practice in the Buddhist centers. I basically have got problems with groups which are in clear breach of human rights. I have not seen this type of attitudes in Ken Wilber's Integral Life or in Sogyal Rinpoche's Rigpa. I saw it in Diamondway Centers run by Ole Nydahl.

If this discussion is about Ken Wilber and Sogyal Rinpoche; I am out. I happen to have a high degree of respect to both of them.

I imagine that most people turn towards 'alternative faiths' when the pressures of everyday life become too confusing. This was certainly one of the reasons why I looked into Buddhism. Having been exposed to several sound bites and quotes I found something which resonated with me and I decided to look deeper. In Buddhism I found a series of methods for systematically examining the mind while engaging with it at the same time. For me it was more than a little frightening at first. In Buddhism I found I couldn't blame anyone else for the events in my life, be they good or bad. I found the culprit was me and this was a little depressing at first. Thankfully, Buddhism also offers methods for dealing with the culprit.

I think to really commit to this path of 'self destruction' requires real strength and courage but if I had the strength and courage in the first place why would I seek a crutch like Buddhism?

This is why I think Buddhism (and other religions who do insist on 'faith') is fertile soil for abusers. I suspect that many of the people who turn to Buddhism do so because they're looking for reassurance, certainty and meaning. The carrot is kept dangling tantalisingly close.... enlightenment or liberation. Devote yourself to you teacher/guru and the carrot can be yours. I have seen this kind of devotion in action. It's like a sedative. Devotees become like speep walkers, attending talk after talk, recieving blessing after blessing and initiation after initiation. They feel good, they feel safe. The guru becomes valium. It's addictive.

When you are suitably sedated you are in danger of becoming totally compliant.

Buddhism has been a wonderful tool for me. I would urge everyone to investigate their 'self' but it is absolutely essential that you remain vigilant and critical throughout the process. I consider myself a bit of a 'tough nut to crack' but I fell for the 'serve your guru' bullshit. I didn't want to spend long hours raising the value of the sangha leaders property by renovating it, but I found myself doing just that. I can't believe I was so docile. Thankfully, I never surrendered my critical faculties. I always wanted to know who said it, why they said it and who decided they were an authority to say it.

I may have an different perspective on Buddhism than the other contributors on this forum but here are my conclusions after 13 years of practice.

There is no reassurance because you face life alone. There is no certainty because all things, at all times, are are always changing. There is no meaning to life because there is nobody out there to give it any meaning. It's you, all alone. I suspect that when I have the courage to accept this then I have created the conditions for enlightenment.

So do not surrender. You're guru cannot see into your mind and is therefore not an authority on YOU. Your guru or teacher can provide information which you can use to give you the strength for face the world alone. If your guru or teacher cultivates an atmosphere where his/her students become more dependant on him/her then smell the rat and get out fast!

If they start talking about supernatural events (Buddha's manifesting in clouds around them) and you want to experience the same you've missed the point and need to examine your motivation. If you start to experience these manifestations then I suspect the conditioning from your guru has been successful. It's either that or you're crazy.

Steve

Brad Warner began practicing Buddhadharma, not because he needed a crutch but because a life threatening genetic disease ran in his family and he had to find a way to make sense of of this awful situation.

For this reason Brad has been quite tough about challenging distortions of buddhism taught and propagated for profit by Ken Wilber, Genpo Roshi and others. Because we have no idea how long we each have to live.

Thats why it is important not to waste time serving the needs of a persuasive speaker who has an ego that needs endless servicing.

People like Ole, Chogyam Trungpa, Sogyal and, especially Ken Wilber are all very good at making seem 'something Big is happening' some big scene or mission and make their readers feel as though they too are part of this big and meaningful scene.

I once took a look at Ken Wilber's One Taste diaries and got nauseated. Kenny constantly referred to friends of his whose conversation was 'brilliant' 'scathing' etc.

He made it seem he was part of this endlessly sparkling social galaxy, never a dull moment, and that if one becomes a dharma practitioner in the Integralista scene, one can be part of Kenny's exciting A list.

Its no different from the so called 'circuit parties' that A list people are desperate to be invited to. At least no one pretends that the circuit party scene is anything other than hedonistic.

But Dharma practice is for those who know there is something a lot deeper out there, that it isnt about a social scene or about being relevant at all.

Sickness, Old Age, Death, the terrible roll of bad luck.

Whats going to happen to me if I am permitted to live long enough that I may be trapped in diapers in a wheelchair or bed? Will my mind drive me crazy or not?

I am not a afraid of hell realms and I care about being enlightened.

I want to see if I can see my own dignity and the dignity of all human beings even if my ass is rotting and helpless in diapers.

Can I take that or not?

Or find the courage to visit buddies in that predicament?

My story is different from Mimi`s. I lived a life as a secret Karma-Mudra of Ole Nydahl and the so called Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje.

No one knew. No one saw. And for a long time no one believed.

I was taken to secret transferences, especially the Bardo, one of the six yogas of Naropa, with its extremly powerfull emanations in body and soul. I went to a level of awarness where I was transformed into a person of energy and pure consciousness, without body and thoughts. Women in that state of mind are essential on the way of enlightenment for male adepts.

Let us listen to the Dalai Lama:

"When we experience subtler level of minds, this level of consciousness can then be transformed into wisdom that understand is emptiness, selflessness.In order to do this, first the practitioner has to stop the grosser levels of consciousness,and to do this, it is necessary to bring about the change of the movement of the white and red basic constituents. This is where sex becomes involved. The strongest change in the level of consciousness that can be utilized by a practitioner occurs during sex. Because of this fact, sex is used as a technique of tantric path.”

Only when the becoming tantric master has sexual contact to a woman in the bodyless status, he will achieve this certain point in the mastery of the completion stage when physically embracing such a consort is necessary for bringing all the pervading energy winds into the central channel, a prerequisite for opening the heart center completely and experiencing the profoundest level of clear light.

And where are these consorts? Do you kow them? Did you ever hear about them? Do you believe their stories?