We cant change anyone's viewpoint.

All that can be done is, as stated above, offer a protected venue such as this where persons who have stopped idolizing Ole N can have a polite and frank discussion about the actual differences between Buddhadharma and how Ole and his admirers have been saying and doing.

If just one sentient being benefits, that is enough.

Thanks Fresh, I agree completely. This approach to conflict resolution (or lack of it) seems to be mirrored on a micro level too, as with some of the stories earlier in this thread...

Thanks also to SebaT, you make some very good points.

Firstly, to clarify, I think we wrote about DWB being more of a "personality cult" than some of the more sinister types of cult that exist. SteveLpool wrote about the question of motivation for posting here, and it seems as if the idea of convincing DWB members who have bought into the whole Ole Nydahl hype is a lofty goal.

This thread exists because DWB has turned a blind eye, or maybe a deaf-ear, to the issues raised. I personally tried to speak to them privately about my situation and was stonewalled, something which seems common to some of the other people who have posted here, and as Corboy points out, there is a wider audience than just the hardcore DWB supporters. Perhaps even the fact that such questions are being asked is at least a start on the path to self-evaluation. I guess we are never going to provide definitive answers to these questions, but because asking them is prohibited within the DWB organisation then it is important to have a public forum so that such issues can be aired without censure.

Identifying Ole as right-wing is simply a matter of clariification. We hear about how "unconventional" Ole is, but to me this seems like he is simply being reactionary. Whether someone sees this as good or bad is immaterial - if DWB identified itself as a right-wing movement then at least this would be honest and people could then make an informed choice whether to support that or not.

The same goes for the clash between Ole as an idol or Ole as a teacher of Buddhism, and with his idea to combine capitalist consumerism with Buddhism - for me these are both mutually exclusive.
As Corboy says, this forum seems to be one of the few places where such issues can be freely discussed, so what is important is to be explicit about the issues and let people make their own minds up about it.

Quote
suenam
The same goes for the clash between Ole as an idol or Ole as a teacher of Buddhism, and with his idea to combine capitalist consumerism with Buddhism - for me these are both mutually exclusive.
As Corboy says, this forum seems to be one of the few places where such issues can be freely discussed, so what is important is to be explicit about the issues and let people make their own minds up about it.

What about Ole as a sexual predator? Are we not seeing the forest for the trees, or did I miss that part of the discussion? Ole sets himself up as idol for the same reason the Tibetan lamas and yogis do--to ensnare women.

I think Ole sets himself up an an idol for the power and adulation it brings to him. With that power and adulation comes wealth, acclaim, recognition, the pick of the women and the envy of the men. Men get ensnared too.

Ole's prediliction regarding preying on his female students as sexual partners has been mentioned throughout the thread.
Power, it is said, is the greatest aphrodisiac of all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2011 03:35AM by Stoic.

All one has to do is examine discussion of attempts made to reform DW from within. Didnt happen.

That is why so many have chosen to discuss matters here.

As Emma C put it, Quote:
Emma C
The idea of public action is a good one, but at my (admittedly small) attempts at public action, and another former member friend of mine's organisation of a protest have simply led to yet more harassment and death threats from Diamond Way.
The idea of a 'Dharma debate' is very difficult with Diamond Way, because as corboy said, they will simply use this as an excuse to restrict discussion, just as they do by in their centres. This is because Diamond Way is not real Buddhism, but in fact a cult that claims to be Buddhism.

Every body talking about Nydahl.....but no one here really see, that Nydahl with his racist mind...He is just putting shame on Buddhism, I'm really embarrassed if non buddhist hear his talk....and they know I am buddhist.

When I'm listening his lectures I am just thinking ...he is putting buddhism in danger.....we have to wait when we will have terrorist attacks
on buddhist center.....

I think DW and it's boss Nydahl ....practicing more hate and discriminating mind than real buddhism....

If a DWB member reads the posts on this forum and is stirred enough by the comments and discussions to really examine the organization and look at their own reasons and motivations for being with the group then I think this is the best we can hope for.

If that individual has been having doubts about DWB then I suspect that this discussion will offer them the comfort of knowing they are not alone. As a doubter in DWB you can feel very much alone because few, if anyone in the organization will discuss your concerns in an open way. From this point the individual can decide if the claims made here are wildly inaccurate when compared with their experience and choose to give DWB the benefit of the doubt. They might identify with the experiences of the people who post on this forum and come to the realisation that the problem wasn’t because they weren’t ‘developed enough’, that there really are serious issues within DWB that render it a personality cult. Then the individual can hopefully leave without feeling guilt.

For someone considering DWB this forum might help them remain critical during the process. Any decisions they make after that are a matter of personal choice.

If you are the kind of person who thinks adultery is fine then you probably won’t have a problem with DWB and Ole Nydahl. If you feel threatened by Islam you may find a group of like-minded people in DWB.

He is very smart and he really does know what he is doing - he is building himself a devoted group and is aiming to become a rinpoche for this group (either post mortem or preferably, towards the end of his life). This can be well deduced from the steps he has taken so far. First at the beginning of 90´s after the passing of Kalu Rinpoche, he started to officialy use the title of Lama. In 1997 he created his own independent organisation. After 2005 you can see him sitting on a high throne (except for general public lectures). Now he started to increasingly circulate a story of him being a tulku. He has founded European centre, which he said was recognised as his "monastery" by Rinpoches. A "documentary" movie is in making about Ole, which should solidify his position. Well now you have a story about being tulku, a high throne, "monastery" and the title of Rinpoche is within a close reach. Oh yeah I forgot, he also claims to be a terton, you can read that in his book Riding the Tiger.

Ole Nydahl is a fraud and Diamond Way is a cult.

Yes Kate, while this seems to be true, ole's example also sends out ripples throughout the entire organisation

- to quote steve james' response to this thread, "I don't need to promote my own importance, they are doing it for me."

It seems that egotism and an obssession with status permeates the entire DWB project.

Suenam I find your comments consistently excellent. Your writing is so insightful and I am finding your posts so helpful in terms of understanding my own confusion and "fall-out" post DW. I was in DW for 3 years, utterly devoted (read: utterly blind and able to pass off many bizarre and troubling behaviours with a kind of "highest-view" white out). Thank you to all contributors, this site is helping me to finally frame and understand the blight in my heart.