Quote
bill77
Truth is not for those who are respectable, nor for those who desire
self-extension, self-fulfillment. Truth is not for those who are seeking
security, permanency; for the permanency they seek is merely the opposite of
impermanency. Being caught in the net of time, they seek that which is
permanent, but the permanent they seek is not the real because what they seek is
the product of their thought. Therefore, a man who would discover reality must
cease to seek - which does not mean that he must be contented with what is. On
the contrary, a man who is intent upon the discovery of truth must be inwardly a
complete revolutionary. He cannot belong to any class, to any nation, to any
group or ideology, to any organized religion; for truth is not in the temple or
the church, truth is not to be found in the things made by the hand or by the
mind. Truth comes into being only when the things of the mind and of the hand
are put aside, and that putting aside of the things of the mind and
of the hand is not a matter of time. Truth comes to him who is free of time,
who is not using time as a means of self-extension. Time means memory of
yesterday, memory of your family, of your race, of your particular character, of
the accumulation of your experience which makes up the 'me' and the 'mine'.

Quote

This conditioning, not the vision which it projects, is the actuality,
the fact. To understand the fact is simple; but it is made difficult by our
likes and dislikes, by our condemnation of the fact, by the opinions or
judgments we have about the fact. To be free of these various forms of
evaluation is to understand the actual, the what is.

Quote
Moon Food, posting on Google listserve wrote:
Moon Food View profile
More options Sep 3 1998, 12:00 am

Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.4th-way, alt.consciousness, alt.meditation, alt.yoga, talk.religion.newage
From: Moon Food <no...@nothere.org>
Date: 1998/09/03
Subject: A real experience with the Gurdjieff Work
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I have written the following as a warning regarding involvement in
the Gurdjieff work. Writing and posting it also provides me with
something of a catharsis. The lessons to be drawn from my experience, I think, are generalizable beyond the Gurdjieff work.

I think the chief lesson is this: there is a difference between the spiritual and the psychic, between realizing God within and invoking or manipulating psychic energies.

Of course, my bizarre experiences were unique to me. Despite that
fact, they are still telling and recounting them might be of value to
those interested in the Fourth Way, as well as all spiritual seekers.

Any comments should be posted to the newsgroup.

In the summer of 1997, spurred by a hankering for the spiritual, I
searched the Internet and came across something called the Fourth Way.
I investigated it, found that a well known and respected Gurdjieff
organization had a branch right in my city, and by September, I was
attending their meetings.

Our particular group was a beginners' group. We met once a week.
Each meeting began with a “sitting.” The sitting is a kind of
meditation. It involves scanning, sensing, the body part by part.
Sensing one’s physical body. It lasts for about 30 minutes. At the
meeting, the sitting is guided by the leader. We were expected to sit
at home each morning on our own.

The sitting is followed by a period, lasting about one hour, during
which everyone sits in a circle. This is led by several group leaders,
experienced in "the Work." Students ask questions, and the leaders take
turns answering the questions.

The group also meets on the weekend on Saturday. On these
Saturdays, we would do actual physical work, having at the beginning of
the day received an "assignment," (e.g., directing attention to the
bottom of one's feet). The work period would be followed by a group
meal, and then by a reading from _Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson_.

I was attending meetings and sitting every day beginning in late
September. I followed the advice given during meetings very precisely.
I was very attentive at the meetings. (I'm a pretty good listener, with
a better than average oral memory.)

For instance, during one meeting, we heard a reading from something
written by John Pentland, which described how to "receive an
impression." Now, Gurdjieff teaches that sensory impressions are a kind
of "food" that is transformed in the human body to eventually create an
astral body, then a "mental" body.

I followed these instructions to the letter, and, lo and behold, something very mysterious happened.

When I looked at something in the manner instructed, it would shift and move around, and, eventually, waves of yellowish green light would emanate from the thing and moved toward me.

After a few months of intensely practicing this, unfortunately, my entire field of vision was moving. I felt like a passenger on the good ship Gurdjieff. This took awhile to wear off after I stopped "receiving impressions."

More importantly, we were told that we would eventually receive a
flow of energy beginning at the top of the head, moving down the spine,
coming up the front through the genital area and up the chest and the
face. By November, I began to experience this flow. I was told that
this was *very* early for a beginner; the average length of time for
this to start, I was told, was after about 5 years of practice. I was
thrilled and amazed. My former scientistic atheism was definitely out
the window.

I mentioned this in private to my group leader, and she
encouraged me to share it with the group. She told me that this was a
significant milestone in the work.

In the next few weeks, my "third eye" apparently opened. I had felt
a kind of pressure and slight pain in my forehead. Now there was a
definite sensation of fluid running from my forehead down my nose and
cheeks. Of course, there was no actual fluid to be found. I suspect
that this was also "expected."

But then something bizarre started that was not "supposed" to
happen.

By the end of November, invisible hands began caressing me, touching
me. They would touch my back, my head, my face. It was uncanny. I
thought that these were spiritual helpers of some kind. They started to
direct my movements, always gently, lifting me to a standing position,
moving my head to one side or back, etc. When I would go through
periods of receiving the energy (and these periods could last for
several hours, as I sat in my room at the edge of my bed, just trying to
keep my back straight and enduring the often uncomfortable force of the
inflow of energy), the hands often came. Then, they started some kind
of construction project on me. They injected some kind of material
into my forehead (apparently, my “third eye” had opened by now). They
sprinkled and then spread some kind of material on my back and legs.

I told my group leader about being “under construction” but she didn’t
have much to say about it. I don't think she initially understood the
magnitude of what I was experiencing.

Things got more complicated in December.

In addition to the hands, I was visited by what I can only describe as “creatures”. They seemed like a sort of animal. They would glom onto my legs and bite my toes!!

At this point, I figured that all was not well.

These creatures came mostly at night, and especially when I went to bed. I

would feel something like a hot blob, very large, sucking on my leg, and along with that sensation there would be the biting of my toes. I figured that these were some kind of creature from another dimension, feeding off of me. I was strangely accepting of it. It didn’t freak me out that much, because at the time I thought this just went with spiritual advancement – an occupational hazard.

The creatures would also bite the top of my head. And other creatures, which seemed somehow different, would sort of lick my face.

At the end of December, things took a turn for the worse.

The hands, or at least *some* hands, actually began to sexually manipulate me. They were masturbating me. It was absolutely unmistakable. I also felt like some kind of suction apparatus at times was affixed to my penis, and that something like a very thin catheter was being inserted into my penis.

While this was happening, I kind of joked to myself, “Okay, when do I get the rectal probe?” Because this reminded me very
much of what UFO abductees describe.

After this, the hands became more obtrusive and obnoxious.

For instance, when I got on a plane to fly back home after visiting my
family in another state, they poked me in the ass. Stuff like that.
When I would have my periods of energy flow, they would put their arm
around my neck to block the flow, or put a hand under my chin to divert
the flow.

Some other bizarre things occured. One was the fact that the
“entities” created some kind of electrical “plug” on my back that they
would occasionally tap into, creating a kind of buzzing sensation
there. The other thing was that they installed some kind of living
thing, like a huge worm, inside my torso.

This living thing would move around inside of me. Fortunately, I don’t experience either of these phenomena anymore.


After Christmas, I was quite sure that my little friends were not
angels from God.

When I got back home, I told my group leader about
them in great detail. She said that this was all beyond her experience,
and suggested I speak to the leader that came from New York once a
month.

When I talked to him in mid-January, he told me I needed to see
a psychiatrist, and that my experiences had nothing to do with “the
Work.”

He told me that *I* was somehow turning the energy I was
receiving into these entities, and that I needed to find out how I was
"feeding" these phenomena.

After my conference with the Big Cheese from New York, I went into a
mild panic. I felt very isolated.

I broke off contact with the Gurdjieff organization and stopped “sitting.” My experiences were too real to write off.

And the fact that I had been fine until I started this meditation was just too much of a coincidence.

However, I did see a psychiatrist right away. He told me that I was
the victim of hypnosis, but prescribed anti-psychotic drugs (Risperdal)
for me. A few weeks later, I became so upset at my continued
harrassment by these "entities", and at the collapse of my trust in the
Gurdjieff work, that I had to leave work and go on disability.

I moved back home, in another state. The psychiatrist I saw there told me, after four or five sessions, that he didn't think I was psychotic,
because I didn't evidence any thought disorder or other signs that would
accompany, say, schizophrenia.

This man, though a Moslem (which I'm just guessing, because his name was Mohammed), said to me at our last appointment, "This might sound stupid, but you should consider seeing a Catholic priest for an exorcism."

My third and current psychiatrist told me I have schizoaffective disorder. So much for psychiatry.

I don’t believe that these visitations are the product of psychosis,
but the resulting depression and anxiety have required psychiatric
care. I take my medications, but it’s just to “cover my bets.”

Eventually, by the end of February, I stopped feeling the hands.
But I still feel, almost every night when I go to bed, something walking
around on my bed. (I used to be able to feel both my little friends and
the creatures approaching me when I sat on the bed – I felt the mattress
being pressed down, although I never *saw* it go down.)

Also, the energy stopped flowing by March. However, I still feel a constant movement and pulsing at the top of my head. It simply will not go away. After some research, I realized that this was my "crown chakra."

I need to mention a few stray facts. First, my group leader twice
demonstrated her powers of telekinesis to me, by turning my head to one
side. It felt like a force moving my head (not like hands).

Second, once during a very heavy period of energy flow through my body, I went into a bodily ecstasy: I was swept out of my body, through the top of my head. I kept my eyes closed the whole time, so I don't know what I would have seen had I opened them. However, I experienced the complete loss of the sensation of having a body, plus an experience of existing briefly in a world of lights, some of different colors.

One more thing I should mention. This is the only experience whose
"supernatural" origin I’m unsure about. One afternoon in December,
during the thick of things, I was home and decided to open my blinds to
let the sun in. I usually keep them down.

After awhile, I noticed across the courtyard of my apartment building a man standing there, perfectly straight, and staring directly at me into my apartment across the courtyard. He was in his 30’s, bearded, and wore a poncho (who wears ponchos these days? ? ).

All I can say is, you had to be there. His stare went right through me.

At first I tried to ignore it. Finally, I approached my window. At that point, this gentleman turned to his right like a robot, and robotically walked away. I never saw him before and I haven’t seen him since. I’m not sure what to make of this experience. My current theory is that either he was some kind of possessed person sent to “greet” me, or he was an apparition.

My tentative conclusions about all this is that, as the
spiritualists teach, there are "entities from the lower astral realm"
who like to interfere with people on occasion.

The energy phenomena I was dealing with attracted them. (By the way, things got worse and worse at actual meetings. For instance, while "sitting," I would feel my little friends approach me. Once they put two hands on my head, sort of like the "laying on of hands" done by Christians. Another time, one came up, grabbed my toes, and shook them. Mostly mischievous stuff.)

As I described it to my sister, I felt like a deaf, blind, retarded
person stuck in a classroom full of obnoxious 8th graders. In other
words, the entities were more childish than what I would call "evil."
But they were most definitely annoying.

I've decided that my spiritual path should avoid any kind of work
with "energies."

Happily, I came across non-dual teachings (e.g., Advaita Vedanta, Dzogchen, etc.), and their contemporary exponents, and
these seem to me, at my deepest core, to be true.

Comments are appreciated. I hope I've entertained you, if not
enlightened you. Please reply to the newsgroup.

Quote
bill77
One more thought on the subject.....
…If you are a Christian, your visions follow a certain pattern; if you are a
Hindu, a Buddhist, or a Muslim, they follow a different pattern. You see Christ
or Krishna, according to your conditioning; your education, the culture in which
you have been brought up, determines your visions. Which is the actuality: the
vision, or the mind which has been shaped in a certain mold? The vision is the
projection of the particular tradition which happens to form the background of
the mind. This conditioning, not the vision which it projects, is the actuality,
the fact. To understand the fact is simple; but it is made difficult by our
likes and dislikes, by our condemnation of the fact, by the opinions or
judgments we have about the fact. To be free of these various forms of
evaluation is to understand the actual, the what is.

Quote
cber7 said:
is there anything new under the sun?