Wouldn’t it be nice if Tulsi, once and for all, acknowledge that she is affiliated with the Science of Identity Institute. There really is nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to his/her own belief. What the constitution is merely demanding is that there should be a separation between state politics and religion. In fact, it is a sign of maturity for a politician or anybody to conduct earthly affairs without the irrational influences of religious tenets.

She has done many seemingly “principled” decisions in life and politics that are laudable yet controversial. There are thousands upon thousands of war veterans who had seen actions a lot way more than Tulsi, yet only she who could claim to be an expert or knowledgeable in Foreign Affairs due to her service; she fans fear for nuclear war and is very demagoguery about the theological aspect of terrorism.

It is disconcerting with Tulsi’s because her guru does not believe in the separation between the church and the state. She has continually exhibited her devotion to the guru and the movement; she is very forthright with her admiration for India’s controversial leader, Narendra Modi; she has exhibited her biased against Muslims, particularly Syrian refugees; her voting record does not reflect clearly a progressive view, yet hobnobbed with the humanist movement; and she was conspicuously silent in the death of Sri Shim, when she could have just easily dispelled the fear by simply showing up, but instead, stubbornly chose to ride waves with the cult.

To not provide clarity on this, suspicion and doubts remain. To be fair, this applies to all, especially to those seeking powers that affect lives. JFK and Romney were very explicit that their chosen faiths will not interfere with their politics, and even Barack Obama was forced to disavow association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright when the preacher’s incendiary ranting surfaced online. As she inches her way in close to the top prize, I think it’s just fair to expect the same standard applies to Tulsi.

To make the long argument short, we don’t have the bloody knife and the gloves do not exactly fit. All we have is circumstantial evidence. A seemingly avoidable deception is waiting to happen, but is only discernable by us ex-members that our polite society would not even bat an eye on, and we know we can’t leave that in the hands of the judges. To those in the know, ex-members that chose to remain silent instead, to Shyam Dodge and the likes, fuck you all!

Dharmabum, ex members of SIF are unlikely to come forward and speak if
we on this discussion threat use harsh language.

They already live in fear. Last thing needed is for this discussion thread to
be like a hornet's nest.

We can't force any bird to fly before it has grown its full set of flight feathers.

Each of us is different.

And once out of SIF, each newly freed person needs some privacy in which to develop a career, find supportive friends and learn to function in an open
society. It can take a long time before each has the energy to select
a computer name and contribute to this or another discussion of Butler's cult.

And the person also may need time to figure out how to write in such a way that he or she cannot be identified, tracked down and harassed by Butler loyalists.

Last thing needed is for any of us to pressure former members to contribute here before they feel ready to do so.

Ex members may prefer to select their own confidantes; this takes time.

dharmabum:

I am very sorry for anyone that was hurt and/or victimized by Chris Butler and his group.

But please try to avoid personal attacks.

Criticism is OK.

But please be circumspect about this.

All my childhood friends and the dudes I went to school with are, within reason, happy where they are. Some have left the cult. Others believe in the myths and gods and gurus but have next to no day to day involvement with the cult and it's practices. The few—very small, fragmented mount that do, are akin to the average person born into christianity and so forth. Christians who choose to stop going to church or bible study or who are on the fence about christianity are perhaps looked upon as unfortunate or sinful by their fanatical brethren, but for the most part—everyone goes about life in a similar fashion: Work, family etc. We cannot fault anyone who does not wish to get involved with the thankless and often futile work of exposing the cult and it's practices and guru. Certainly there is more to life than doing so and from what I see—SIF spend more time and energy on teaching simple mantra meditation and yoga and vegetarianism then they do on asking new recruits to serve "Jagged Guru" in any legitimate way.

Sam goes for Tusli—she is not pushing any "butler" agenda—at least not in anyway that has far reaching impact compared to say, Trump or some other politicians. Is she all over the place? Sure—isn't that what politics is about?

Not much more can be said about this cult. It's a gateway cult to the larger krishna cults out there at worst and it's a closed circuit cult with little real reach and power beyond it's small group of followers at best. The few people in it are happy and don't see issue with it.

Coming forward for me was a personal choice based on the fact that I felt that it needed to be documented that Butler operated an illegal all boys school in the Philippines that I felt was damaging to some of us and ultimately did little in really educating us. I also wanted to confirm and shed light on other lesser know aspects of the cult: Butlers germaphobia, the harsh words to his devotees, the many lectures bashing homosexuality and his disciples, the obvious political ambitions and various other ego/money driven behaviors of butler and the cult.

My biggest agenda has always been to shed light on the fact that it's a india-centric religion and by far not a "Eternal Path" or Sanatana Dharma as it is often branded by krishna cults. I wanted to shed light on the mythology, origins, and history that I know that makes it clear to me that there is nothing "eternal" or "absolute" about this cult—or any for that matter. I have tried to shed light on the contradictions, myths, absurdities, rituals and so forth that make this a mind controlling group. I think it has it's place in as much as it is kept small and majority of folks approach it in a cultural context. If you get introduced to yoga and vegetarianism through groups like this, beware! That is not their final offering and goal in recruiting you. These groups do want your money, your time, your energy and worship of their guru and gods and their guarantee of "peace" and "love" is idealistic and heavily based on inapplicable myths and rituals that have been proven to have a profoundly dulling effect on the mind. They are not just peddling meditation and feel good ideas. Though they are not doing it with ill intent, nonetheless, people should be warned that it's more than meets the eye.

The politics of Tulsi are less threatening to me and ultimately I think people will vote for her if they align with some percentage of her views. I personally don't care if she reads gita and worships butler—if she can manage to do that and still go to Reason Rally and distance herself from bigoted religious idealism—that seems fine to me. I can't hope for much more from a politician.

The devotees worshiping Butler are entitled to do so and if it makIs them happy all power to them. My self appointed job is to shed light on what i know and be a voice of reason and support should someone feel as odd about it all as i did growing up. If you feel that your days in the cult are numbered—don't be afraid. Jump ship knowing there are many fast motorboats that can ferry you to safe shores. You need not dedicate your life to fantasy and myth. You need not follow some god-man that tells you tales of hope. You need not worship some blue god or pretend that some mantra you chant is "cleansing" you and helping you go to some abstract heaven. You can have a nice, simple, balanced life here, right now. You can adopt and practice many applicable ideas in your life to gain peace and acceptance of the world around you. We know enough as a society and thinking people to understand that while we cannot know everything, we know enough to not pretend that the cosmos was created by a 4-headed creator god and that as long as a guru has a brain and a body—they are just like you and me—flawed and human.

You do not need to feed your mind a continuous stream of fairytales and work your emotions up to a frenzy. The emotion you feel in your chanting is not much different than seeing a sentimental TV commercial or tear-jerking movie. The difference is that you would not perpetually subject your mind to such an experience. It's OK to feel sad and happy and experience the duality of existence without having to believe in mythology. It's not that the myths do not have a place. They do. But they are best understood symbolically and culturally. The thinkers of the past left us their observations and thoughts in story form to make it all more appealing to read and convey some philosophical ideas as well as impart to us the importance of a simple life of love and peace. And, to the people of the time—these were cool epics and stories to tell around a campfire and temple sermons. They captivated the masses as do stories nowadays.

This is my opinion and I know that many of my childhood friends and guys form the PI school share some of these views or have formed their own understanding and appreciation of their upbringing. They were not abused in the classic sense of the word and they have made peace with the parts that were absurd or confusing. They do not see the need to bang the drum any more than needed. I can appreciate that. I often feel the same. But every once in a while, I have some memory or something i do that I feel is directly resultant of my upbringing. And I detest it. In the least—I see it as having been planted in my mind by someone else—something unnatural or impractical or downright idiotic. It's those times that i feel most compelled to offer a hand and express my deep regret for the mental damage that being brought up in such a cult can result in. But I have to be realistic—it's my take and my opinion—at best. I can no more prove that a blue cowherd god is frolicking with young village girls in some eternal spiritual sky than disprove it. I go by several billion years of evolutionary hunch that it's complete BS. And i truly do feel that those who waste their time really believing in it are not experiencing reality. I value reality and I value the mind I have. I value evolution and I value where it has taken us and where it can take us. That future—for me—has no religion in it and certainly not cults. It is filled with peaceful people, but logical people. It is filled with love and devotion and servitude, but with no need to base that on a fantasy. It is filled with teachers and guides, but not with legions bowing to such folks—but simply being thankful and grateful to have the company of people who can impart some practical and applicable ideas—if they seem helpful in our life. And it's filled with politicians and people of power who have a deep compassion—not an agenda serving only a few select people. I think we are not too far off form this. But I do see cults like SIF and many krishna groups as a detriment to that happening. Although, I have to admit that it is gladdening to see many krishna youth not taking to the non-sense that the previous generation gobbled up at face value. There is more thinking and more questioning in this next generation and that seems to be steering some krishna leaders in a different direction. But at that point—the question remains: Why even continue to believe in your vedas and gods and gurus? You have already surpassed them in thinking by being a modern human. this is not arrogance or lack of humility. It's called evolution. Old ideas and archaic concepts need not dictate our destiny. They can inform and be a historical part of it—but they need not define us.

I can't find Kurt Butler's "suicide by shark" blog spot.
It's really not funny. Seriously, I hope he gets help before he acts out on his threats.

Here is a list of Chris Butler's brother Kurt Butler's blogs.

But found this curious: Deepak Chopra, Medical Messiah or Madman?

Quote

WWW.MadManChopra.blogspot.com Proof that the Indian-American icon of New Agers, Deepak Chopra, is either a psychopath (anti-social personality) or is utterly insane.

Wonder why he doesn't mention his own "god man" brother Chris?

He also has gone after health food fraud. Wonder why he never went after Down to Earth or Hesh Goldstein's radio show?

Perhaps he is serving his guru brother (like his devotee brother Bruce) by attacking the competition?

Hi Vera, someone just forwarded me the image of the Kurt Butler thing. I asked where they found it and they said it was on an image hosting site called www.mlkshk.com

I couldn't find it on there myself but this is where my friend found it.

I love your posts, hope you are well!

And seriously, Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda the cult leader's crazy brother going out of his way to call out Deepak Chopra? Deepak fuckin destroys Chris Butler as a spiritual teacher. I guess they are rubbed a little wrong by the fact that Deepak Chopra is a spiritual teacher who demolishes Chris Butler's outdated late 70's bro science routines without even having to be an actual cult leader.

Don't fuck with those rims, dog, Deepak wears his speedboats and mansions on his face. Bling bling the spiritual gangsta. An actual Indian Hindu, too, imagine THAT! Absolutely SCANDALOUS!!!

Vera, love the INFOWARS links. I can't back Trump but I love INFOWARS. Been watching them for many years. Rob Dew! Chasing general Petraeus through the streets is just one of the gems on that channel.

https://youtu.be/mNmxbtWWOG0

Wai Lana's horrific new vid. Any cult member cameos? Looks like a lot of actors. Maybe Wai Lana's Chinese relatives?

[youtu.be]

This is a version with seemingly unmoderated comments. People who probably know nothing about her were leaving funny comments like "ew"

So leave a zinger on this version ha ha

Let us all take this moment to contemplate how fortunate we were to have had Mantra Electric to listen to growing up...