Butler & Neo Vaishnavism vs Democracy
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: March 10, 2015 08:41PM

Corboy ~

The Bhagavad Gita is not only a religious text, it is also a political one. But I hesitate, in this debate, to question Tulsi’s ability to perform her duties without bias because she is a Hindu or Neo Vaishnava. Case in point; recently at UCLA, before a student was accepted unanimously to serve on the student council’s Judicial Board, she was rejected by four of 14 members, allegedly based solely on her religious affiliation: Judaism.
UCLA Student Council Member

“Given that you are a Jewish student and very active in the Jewish community, how do you see yourself being able to maintain an unbiased view?”

see: Israel boycott supporters on Student Council question whether student applicant could be fair even though Jewish.

Anti-Israel Culture at UCLA Blamed for Anti-Semitism

This argument of "anti-hinduism" is the strategy being used to foil any criticism against Tulsi. But it does not apply. It is a distraction from the truth and not the point. It is the red herring thrown out to prevent people from connecting her to Butler’s cult.

Here is the fundamental difference. The Jewish candidate at UCLA is very open about her background. There is not a secretive Rabbi hiding behind the scenes telling her what to do and say and running her campaign. She's not hiring exclusively members of her synagogue for her staff.

Tulsi is not forthcoming about any connections to Chris Butler. Why is she deceptive or smudges the lines between Hindu, Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and the Science of Identity cult? There are great distinctions that she ignores. Why? Does she think the world is incapable of accepting the more cultic aspects of Butler’s teachings and practices? Is she afraid that this would make her less electable? She would be right on both.

Does she really have the Aloha spirit or does she secretly feel superior to the “unwashed karmi masses” she is set on leading?

If she owned the truth and brought Butler out into the light, he would have a lot to answer for. But she would also have to admit that she has not been honest with her voters.

She forgets that Hawaiians are very forgiving and consider her ohana, family. They would not reject her by just coming out and saying, “Hey, you know, my parents follow Chris Butler and I grew up in this sect. He has been a huge influence on my family, but I don’t agree with everything. For example, I parted ways regarding abortion and gay marriage.”

But this admission will never happen because Butler’s foot is in her door. That's the problem and the main distinction between Tulsi and the Jewish student running for student council. There are no Rabbis behind the scenes calling the shots. So the deception goes on. On Butler’s orders, she is not even free to admit the truth. So what is her end game? How can we trust Tulsi when she is beholden to her guru? The point is that our concerns have nothing to do with religious prejudice or bigotry.

Back to the issue of the Bhagavad Gita vs Democracy -- The brand of Vaishnavism or Bhakti Yoga as practiced by Butler differs greatly from what is described above. His teachings are very simple. If you surrender to G0d (Krishna specifically), through his emissary Butler, and chant, you will attain a blissful life of service. The goal is not a state of enlightenment, but the service. That is Chaitanya’s plebian message - counter to the constricted caste system and doctrine of self-obliteration in the white light. It is also a great excuse to start your own cult.

Is any religion really compatible to democracy? Not really beyond informing our ethics and morals. But even that can be contentious (e.g., abortion and marriage rights). That’s why our wise founders gave us freedom of religion, but also created a separation between religion and the state.

Corboy, you make a great point that putting on a false front takes time and effort away from the job. Especially in a constant campaign mode worrying about voters and funds, it must be tough. The UCLA student never had that issue.

You asked, “If, however you belong to a religion, which as interpreted by your guru considers its adherents superior to those who do not share its beliefs – what then?"

You asked another important question, “More serious yet, if that religion, as interpreted by old man Prab and Chris Butler can only imagine ideal human relationship as submission to an infallible guru, and the ideal human society… is to submit to one's superiors [in this case; the Guru of the World Butler] --how can someone who has grown up in a sect like that function as a custodian of democracy?”

“Life in the Krishnas, with its ranks and obedience would be good preparation for a structured situation such as the military. But not IMO, good prep for being an elected representative for a citizen society.

That is why it is important for an elected official to be clear about his or her affiliations. That way constituents have enough information to make an informed decision whether or not to vote for that candidate-- and continue voting for that same candidate.”

I ask, how could anyone who has grown up believing in one infallible man who claims to have a pipeline to g0d, even comprehend democracy?

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Tulsi's new hire -- earlier citations on this thread
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 12, 2015 06:03AM

Tulsi's new hire -- earlier citations on this thread



Eyebrow Raiser: Tulsi Gabbard’s New Chief of Staff Baffles Political Insiders

Kainoa Penaroza is a health-food sales manager with little political experience and no apparent background in Washington, D.C. But the high-profile congresswoman has tapped him to be her top political adviser.

February 24, 2015·By Rui Kaneya

(small exerpt from the Civil Beat article.)


The press release doesn’t say when Penaroza began his job in Gabbard’s D.C. operation, but a LinkedIn profile has him working as a health-food products sales manager in Hawaii until two months ago. He also lists current ownership of a natural-clothing company that provides products to Whole Foods.

In the press release, Gabbard describes Penaroza as “an entrepreneur and small business owner” and mentions that he worked for six years as a “national sales manager for a Hawaii company” but leaves out its name.

Penaroza’s profile lists him as a sales manager at Puna Noni Inc., a broker at Ecoceptional Inc., and the owner of the Kailua-based Tag Aloha Co., “an Eco-friendly clothing and Accessory line.”

Penaroza’s political resume, meanwhile, is a thin one. Gabbard’s press release credits him for working as a volunteer in her first political campaign — the successful run for a state House seat in 2002. Penaroza went on to work as a coordinator during her run for Honolulu City Council and then as an “event organizer and grassroots coordinator” — also as a volunteer, according to Penaroza’s LinkedIn profile — for Gabbard’s 2012 and 2014 campaigns for the national office.

The comments following this article are interesting and deserve to be
read in their entirety.

(Corboy note: because online media material and comments sometimes become unavailable after a few years, here are some extensive quotes -- to preserve the voices of Hawaiian citizens who are expressing their concerns.)


Ragnar Carlson · Top Commenter · San Francisco State University

It's almost as if Gabbard is not the brand-new person she unveiled just in time to run for higher office so much as the same crazy m*****f***** she has been all her life.

Reply · · 5 · February 25 at 5:38am

Greg Harris · Honolulu, Hawaii

I think it says a lot about Civil Beat that your comment is on this article. Very disappointing to say the least.

Reply · · 9 · Edited · February 25 at 8:30am

Ben Wagner · Top Commenter

There is a more constructive and less profane way to put that, but I agree with Ragnar on the substance.

The Tulsi Gabbard of 2002 is completely different than the Tulsi Gabbard of 2015. One has to wonder how sincere she is on some of her new policy positions.

Reply · · 7 · February 25 at 9:09am

Patricia Blair · Top Commenter · University of Nebraska-Lincoln

Yes in deed, Ben, and she refuses to speak with local reporters presently in DC about issues prevalent to District 2. That is stupid, immature. Not the kind of Rep., I expect to represent my district.

A plug for this discussion thread!


Claire Piechota Santos · Top Commenter · RN/Health Care Advocate at Ask Nurse Santos

What's this cult thing? Tell us everything you know about Tulsi's cult.

Reply · · February 25 at 9:39pm

John Kawamoto · Top Commenter

The national media is interested in cults, so maybe a big newspaper will assign an investigative reporter to do a story on it. Tulsi has garnered national attention, so it might be a big story, especially if they can find a few people who dropped out of it and are willing to tell its inner workings.

Reply · · 2 · Edited · February 25 at 9:49pm

Bart Dame · Top Commenter

Claire Piechota Santos, if you are truly interested in learning about the cult headed by Chris Butler, I have provided a link in my first post on this subject to the Cult Educational Forum. There are currently 475 pages of postings, mostly by former members of the group, sharing their memories as well as some original internal documents. Not everything on there should be assumed to be accurate, just as there are bogus things posted on any public forum, including in the comment section of Civil Beat. But most of the information there is accurate and it paints a portrait of a deluded megalomaniac, exploiting and abusing naive followers.

Chris's devotees do not want an honest review of the group's behavior and history. They want any such discussion shut down and censored. They hope Tulsi's celebrity will help bring legitimacy to Chris as a bonafide "guru." But they want to tightly limit what information is known about him.

I'll make it easy for you. Here is a link. It goes directly to a page with some information about Kainoa Penaroza, which is relevant to the question being asked in this article, Who is this kid and why would Tulsi appoint someone with zero qualifications to the important, taxpayer funded job of her Chief of Staff?:


But there are 475 pages. It can also be searched for specific names. You can learn, for example, about the school where Mike Gabbard served as "headmaster" for a few years. You can learn about Chris Butler's role in guiding the Independents for Godly Government political party in his first attempt to elect devotees into political office, a project which has continued over the years, with Tulsi's career as his greatest political success so far.

It will help you understand why so many of his followers are trying to shut down this discussion.

Reply · · 3 · February 26 at 4:39am

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2015 11:36PM by corboy.

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Another article from Civil Beat-Hawaiians speak
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 13, 2015 11:08PM

(Corboy note: I have quoted extensively from the comments section because
some online media material becomes difficult to find on a Google search
after a few years.)



Civil Beat Editorial, Opinion

Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Needs to Answer Questions About Chief of Staff

A controversial staff hire and her persistent digs at the president have caused many to question the congresswoman. Whether the criticism endures depends in large part on her.

March 2, 2015·By The Civil Beat Editorial Board

A few selected comments. Readers are urged to read the entire
article and all of the comments.


Alice Huang

Look at all the things she has accomplished as a politician...and listen to her speak! She makes the most sense of all people in Washington about the president's recent speeches regarding the ISIS problem....and people just want to get on her case about who she hires? They elected her to do her job. Now LET her do her job.

Reply · · 19 · March 2 at 12:51pm

Moki Hana · Top Commenter · Welder at Navy Shipyard

With all due respect, while the decision is hers to make, the civic duty of all citizens are to hold are elected officials accountable. That is to say, we not only have the ability to posit such questions, she has an obligation as a public servant to simply answer the question--why constituents and the district are best severed by this individual?

Reply · · 6 · March 2 at 1:41pm
Matt Helyer · Top Commenter · Works at Retired

Alice, It's all much ado about nothing.

Reply · · 1 · March 2 at 11:40pm

John Kawamoto · Top Commenter

Alice Huang, Everyone wants Tulsi to do her job well, but how can she do that with an inexperienced person as her chief of staff?

Reply · · 1 · March 3 at 1:16am

View 2 more
Allen Nakamura · Top Commenter · Honolulu, Hawaii

Being a no-show at a hearing for vets concerned with the state of VA hospitals in Hawaii, so that she could show off her surfing skills to Yahoo! news. And now, canceling a phone interview with Hawaii News Now on the very same day she had time to do an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper. Just a couple of months into her second term as congresswoman, and Tulsi already is showing signs of being disconnected with the voters in her district. I know that since statehood, Hawaii has never voted an incumbent member of congress out of office. But up till last year, this state has never voted out an incumbent governor in the primary. As Neil Abercrombie's historic defeat showed, there's always a first time. And if Tulsi is not careful and she takes her support at home for granted, a similar fate could befall


Bryan Ferguson · Top Commenter

Ben Wagner Criticism is fine; just understand that at the end of the day, she has the right to surround herself with the best people she believes will help her to effectively do her job.

Reply · · 13 · March 2 at 7:48am

Moki Hana · Top Commenter · Welder at Navy Shipyard

She is a public servant--period. What that entails is transparency and working for the greater good of her constituency, while at once tethered to constant accountability. So, while she has certainly the autonomy to select the person for the position, she also has the duty to explain why the person would best serve her congressional district. With all due respect, the person selected has less experience than volunteer interns who are still in college--which reminds me--does even have a college degree?

Reply · · 9 · March 2 at 8:30am


Greg Owen · Top Commenter · University of Hawaii at Manoa

I really, really want to support our Congresswoman, but my support is ebbing away like the tide...basically the Public has the right to know the full details of Tulsi's thinking on this [and other] issues, That's how it works with Public Officials..... Better to deal with these issues now rather than when Ms. Gabbard is running for Senator [?] or President [?]. And hey stoner Chris, HOWZIT!

Reply · · 6 · March 2 at 3:28pm

Doug Maguire · Top Commenter · Honolulu, Hawaii

Vanity Fair has done some excellent work over the years profiling people. I want to read from day 1 and that would be in the year 1981, THE ENTIRE LIFESTORY.Multiple aspects of her life merit serious investigative journalism. I read some very disturbing information on the so called leader of her personal worship center. No one can have it their way all the time. Tulsi has REFUSED to sit down with the Civilbeat Board and the local newspaper board. What questions does she not want to answer.Many people here seem to find her life story and personal behavior inspiring and they have every reason to feel that way. When you are spoken of as a person who could perhaps run for this nations highest office someday, EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVER DONE IS FAIR GAME, PERIOD!

Reply · · 5 · March 2 at 2:09pm

Ben Wagner · Top Commenter

It seems that there needs to be a regime change in second district. Have somebody who respects both the press and their constituents.


Patricia Blair · Top Commenter · University of Nebraska-Lincoln

Tulsi's recent actions and her lack of response to constituents questions on issues of concern, makes Tulsi most un appealing for another term to represent my district. Imagine a Representative afraid to face probing questions from Civil Beat and other Hawaii news media. A sign of immaturity or cover up?

Reply · · 4 · March 2 at 8:20am

Carolyn Haley · Top Commenter · Honolulu, Hawaii

is Alana Penaroza (Kainoa's wife) still Tulsi's assistant?

Reply · · 4 · March 2 at 10:39pm

John Kawamoto · Top Commenter

Lots has been said about Tulsi recently. There are two major issues. The first is that she chose the inexperienced Kainoa Penaroza as her chief of staff. The second is how much she is connected with a religious organization known as the Science of Identity Foundation -- if at all.

Regarding the inexperience issue, some say it doesn’t matter. Tulsi can choose anyone she wants; or the job doesn’t require experience; or Penaroza should be given a chance before making a judgment about him.

Others say that an inexperienced person won’t be able to do the job well because of the complexities of the position. Tulsi’s performance is compromised by choosing Penaroza, and Tulsi’s overall judgement is called into question with that choice.

Regarding the issue of the Science of Identity Foundation, it has been associated with homophobia worship of the leader as divine, extreme indoctrination, arranged marriages, and punishment for leaving the group. However, much of the information is unsubstantiated.

Some people feel that religion is a private activity, and that no one should criticize Tulsi’s religion.

Others feel that her religion is irrelevant, and that the only relevant factor is what she does on the job.

Still others are concerned that Tulsi may be a member of a cult, and that it affects what she does on the job.

Tulsi has supporters and critics. She can silence her critics if she explains her choice of Penaroza and her involvement in the Science of Identity Foundation. If not, her negative rating is going to rise. The lack of reliable information makes people imagine the worst,.

On a side note, I realize that this article is an opinion, but it's amateurish for the Civil Beat editorial board to call Penaroza “Kainoa Ramananda Penaroza.” It brings to mind the conservative media calling Obama “Barack Hussein Obama” in attempting to sway people to vote against him....

See More

Reply · · 2 · Edited · March 2 at 10:34pm

Rick Tubania · Top Commenter · University of Hawaii at Manoa

it is you guys who are creating issues when there are none - you are needlessly questioning her selection of the staffer and her religion. how come her religion was not an issue in her prior political campaigns? The reason is that someone has an agenda against her and wants to smear her before the 2016 election because she is a threat to one particular senator who refused to hear his jewish leader.

Reply · · March 3 at 2:47pm

John Dupuis · Southern Illinois University Carbondale

No Evan I have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge as to any involvement of outsiders etc. I just brought it up as a"thought".. I do know others that have those concerns. I believe in a strict separation of Church and State as guaranteed in our constitution. Citizens for Godly Gov't. Sent up a BIG red flag for me and after a while both Reed and Nisiki were exposed


Evan Tector · Top Commenter · Honolulu, Hawaii

John, you are the first one to bring that Krishna/Cult subject up here. While we do not actually know if Butler is influencing her, you would not honestly deny that Jaggad Guru has a history of influencing Hawaii politics? Recalling of course the 'Godly Government' Rick Reed, Wayne Nishiki and Mike Gabbard histories. All seemed to involve multi-partisan attempts at using 'homophobic' propaganda to rally support for Butler's affiliates.

As for Tulsi, we do know that she and her family are long time affiliates of Butler's cult. We would not know to what extent Guru might be influencing her because she and the media have skirted the issue of her level of active participation in the cult, generally glossing over it all merely to state her religion as 'Hindu". Certainly it is fine for candidates and pols to have religious affiliation and many make it a showcase for their community and values. Very few actively hide them or discourage media and public awareness. So yes, we do not know the answer to the Guru 'influence' question you raise. Perhaps you have some active insight?

Reply · · 4 · Edited · March 2 at 5:02pm

Evan Tector · Top Commenter · Honolulu, Hawaii

Apologies John, I do see others raised the subject before you. Questions still stand though. Mahalo.

Reply · · 2 · March 2 at 5:20pm

Doug Maguire · Top Commenter · Honolulu, Hawaii

Evan Tector , Without question it is the use of the word cult, NOT Hindu that concerns me most.


Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2015 11:44PM by corboy.

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Chris Butler's early years - as recalled by another
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 13, 2015 11:41PM

This comment follows the Civil Beat article posted here.

Readers must dig through all the comments to find it.

Like eating a mango, well worth the effort.


Greg Owen · Top Commenter · University of Hawaii at Manoa

I was an early supporter of Tulsi, and would like to continue to be a supporter, however, this move is kinda WEIRD......doesn't make common sense in any way....maybe this guy could have been a good health advisor... or messenger.....and what's with the constant turnovers with the Chiefs of Staff?

I tried to find personal common ground like local folks do...and told Tulsi twice that her mentor or guru was my teammate in LL baseball.

That Stoner Chris Butler was an amazing shortstop on our championship team, the Kainalu white socks....no answer from our Congresswoman....... Now I am getting intrigued...who are these people and.... WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA? And I am a stoner....

Reply · · 1 · February 26 at 2:50pm

John Kawamoto · Top Commenter

Besides being an amazing shortstop, what was Chris Butler like? Are you surprised that he turned into a guru?

Reply · · 2 · February 26 at 3:05pm

Bart Dame · Top Commenter

Greg, I am a Kainalu Elementary alumni myself.

I had heard Chris was a fantastic ball player and had hoped to play professionally. When his life took another path and he became a guru, he took on the name "Sai Young," an obvious nod to Hall of Famer Cy Young, a sign he had not yet given up on his affection for baseball.

Chris's parents lived right across the street from the Kainalu administration building. Will Butler was my family physician when I was a kid and a close friend later on as we worked together in support of the struggles against death squads and dictatorships in Central America in the Reagan years.

For anyone who knew Chris and the family before he became Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, the idea he is the most spiritually advanced being in the manifest universe is laughable.

Heck, one needn't be an oldtime Kailua person to see through the absurdity.

Go to the website I linked to.

(This very thread discussion you are reading, right here, right now Corboy)

I love the memo where Chris is whining to his devotees that Mike Gabbard needs to be replaced as his personal assistant because Chris didn't get mangoes for breakfast!

He denounces his Maui and Oahu devotees as "lazy," not noticing that he is the laziest one of the bunch, going hungry rather than just walking to the store, expecting to be waited on hand and foot.

So being raised in Kailua HELPS see through the nonsense. But any one with a modicum of critical independence should see what a farce the cult is. It is because Butler and his following have done so many questionable things over the years that His followers want to censor any discussion of the cult.

Reply · · 3 · February 26 at 3:11pm

Some earlier discussion on this same thread -- well worth a re-read

Look for the post by 'dharmabum' Date: August 07, 2012 10:20AM

DB quoted some interesting material describing how ISKON and
Butler distanced themselves from Hinduism.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2015 02:05AM by corboy.

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Tulsis campaign -adroit use of social media
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 14, 2015 12:07AM

Note the recent complaints by some of Tulsi's constituents
that she didn't visit the VA hospital.

Social media


A Window into Tulsi's Heart -- Death Can Come at Any Moment.

A Window into Tulsi Gabbard's Heart: On the Battlefield, Death Can Come at Any Moment

by Tulsi Gabbard • 801 views

Comments (A few quoted here)


Henry Robinson 2 years ago
Very touching, thanks for sharing

Merrilyn Smith 2 years ago
I am in awe of how you came to peace with imminent death. This is the kind of spokesperson we need in Congress. I wish you all the luck in the world

George Rodriguez 2 years ago
The hope that most Americans have today is that we get a representative in Congress that really understands that what we are going through, not only economically but also what the families of those being deployed are suffering. Tulsi you have my vote because you understand and you are that person

Tia Mitchel 2 years ago in reply to Natalie Stocker
I agree she's a breath of fresh air and you can tell the she really wants to be of service

Henry Robinson 2 years ago
War is scary man, I don't think I would have the guts

Sharon Wynne 2 years ago
It is so nice that you share your personal experiences with us Tulsi, thanks so much.

Brad Jackson 2 years ago
Personal experience makes Tulsi real. This is who I want representing me in congress.

More You Tubes of Tulsi in her early days.

Gabbard's experiences as a member of the Hawai'i Army National Guard during two deployments to the Middle East have given her invaluable insight into the real costs of war. Those experiences...

(Corboy note: If you operate from a Judeo Christian Muslim background,
your understanding is that we have but one life to live. So this title,
"Death Can Come at any Moment" has pathos.

(If you buy into Bhagavd Gita, that text beloved of the Krishnas
and Gaudiya Vaisavnas, that humans reincarnate, death is an illusion and that, vide Bhagavad Gita, killing isn't actually killing if it is
your dharma duty as member of the khstryia warrior elite to wage war
and to kill.

In this there is no pathos, no anguish
moral or emotional when contemplating human death and dying.)

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2015 01:55AM by corboy.

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Some old discussions here from 2011
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 14, 2015 12:30AM

Some old discussions here from 2011


Posts from member 'private eye' are well worth a re-read.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2015 02:15AM by corboy.

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Re: Tulsis campaign -adroit use of social media
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: March 14, 2015 12:48AM


(If you buy into Bhagavd Gita, that text beloved of the Krishnas
and Gaudiya Vaisavnas, that humans reincarnate, death is an illusion and that, vide Bhagavad Gita, killing isn't actually killing if it is
your dharma duty as member of the khstryia warrior elite to wage war
and to kill.

In this there is no pathos, no anguish
moral or emotional when contemplating human death and dying.)

Remember that the core tragedy described in Shyam Dodge's book {spoiler alert if you have not read it] Wet Hot and Wild American Yogi: A Memoir was the coldness he was met with by his guru when his father died. His sister suffered from their great indifference and dispassion. In the Cult of Butler you are expected to follow the credo "the wise do not lament for the living or the dead."

Kainoa Penaroza was not hired because he understands the "Aloha spirit" and Hawaii better, but because he is a member of the cult and submissive to Butler. This just exposes the underlying feeling of superiority that the Butlerites have towards the rest of the world.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 16, 2015 11:23PM

To whom it may concern:

An article appeared at "Civil Beat" today In Honolulu, Hawaii.

"Krishna Cult Rumors Still Dog Tulsi Gabbard"

"The Hawaii congresswoman’s national rise is inviting closer scrutiny of her family ties to a fringe sect."

See [www.civilbeat.com]

This message board is prominently cited and linked as a source for the article.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2015 11:24PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: March 18, 2015 04:15AM

Thanks, Mr. Ross, for restoring the lost posts which were very helpful to the Civil Beat reporter. His story has been repeated by Huffington Post and other news sites.


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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: March 19, 2015 05:55AM

Among the lost posts recovered by Rick Ross were many old news stories about Chris Butler and his devotees. That recovery aided some reporters including Rui Kaneya at Civil Beat. In the interest of making the material more accessible, I've created a quick graphical index.

Pinterest Story Board on The Cult

Pinterest is free to join and you can remain anonymous. The link below each clipping points back to the full article on this message board.

More to come...


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