Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dharmabum ()
Date: April 21, 2010 01:14PM

This is something I lamented over my involvement there. We thought it was cool. And that seemed to be the attraction, that it was cool to be among them. It was unlike other religious groups. It was cool for the guru to swear. Not just swear but swear a loooot; and to be pompous and mean. We laughed like rah-rah kids. We celebrated his misdemeanors. But then everybody was doing it, overdoing it. And things can get out of hand. Wife beating was rampant, and disciplining the children were brutal; and a lot of affairs and breakups. There were quarrels, gossips, intrigues, just about on most mundane things to most people outside the group were non-issues. I was new and asked: "shouldn't he be like Jesus?" And I was scoffed at: "Well, Lord Shiva smoked ganja, etc. etc. ..." All those out-of-this-world blah blahs only they could justify and understand. After just a year, I was like them, even lecturing my mom for being a meat-mouth. The measure of spirituality was on how much you give, services in the form of money and time. You could be the most arrogant a-hole in the world, as long as you give and do your rounds, you're ranked among the core elite. To be humble seemed corny; you have to regard yourself as above the karmis, demean them as ignorant, stupid, offensive and demons; everybody outside the group, and that includes your family. You have to beg to serve as if it was an honor or reward, your true and only connection to God. The funny thing is when CB castigates you. We took it like it was the darndest thing in the world and you will have to work your way up again. That means more penance, more humiliation and more services to give, just to get back into the fold again. It was the same psychology as the battered wife. It was like "I can kick my dog as much as I want, and it won't bite." CB is a master of that psychology. And I wasn't surprised at all that he never changed up to now, even at his old age - the same tactic, the same misdemeanor. If it was cool then, in this age, I can't see how that could still persist. The 70s were just whacky. Us were mostly groping in the dark, at least now, kids and society at large have clearer direction. Everything we need to know under the sun is just one-click away. Looking back, it was soooo stupid, and not cute at all, as CB thought he was, up to now. The funny thing is, people hang on.

Foolishfear, the best advice I could give you is to learn how to fend up for yourself and be comfy with whatever company you're in. People are strange everywhere, in and out of the cult. You have to take the world for what it is - both good and bad, and take things on your own terms. Be compassionate to others and always have a sense of humour. As long as your good outweigh your bad, I think you'll be fine as a human being.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: April 21, 2010 09:55PM

Found another interesting critical review of the Butler philosophy.
Science of Identity Fraud

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: April 24, 2010 09:25AM

From the above link:
author unknown, but probably from the Chiskon website. It offers an excellent synopsis of the cult. Some minor details are questionable, but the over all facts are verified by testimony of former followers and documents posted on this site.

Features of a Destructive Cult

The Science of Identity Foundation, founded in Hawaii in 1977, is centre to a network of business, political and spiritual enterprises operating throughout the world under the direction of Chris Butler (Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa).

The 'science of identity' is also the title given to a distinct doctrine, as defined by Chris Butler, centered on the concept of spiritual life being dependent on any individual discovering thier 'actual identity' and being prepared to live according to their 'true nature'.

As organisation and philosophy are entirely co-existent both are essentially referred to by the abbreviation of SoI. Also called the Science of Identity Foundation (SIF)

SoI is based around an authoritarian pyramid structure with Chris Butler, accepted as being the only genuine spiritual authority on earth and a direct link to God, at the top. Current biographies on the internet are showing him making alliances with other current and former ISKCON or "gaudiya vaishnava" orgs. At least publicly he does not show the title "Prabhupad" but rather "Paramahansa". I will write more on this later.

The means for achieving 'liberation from the endless cycle of birth and death' (re-incarnation) in SoI and 'going home to Godhead' (existing in the eternal bliss of Krishna's heavenly abode) is to accept Chris Butler's teachings as the 'absolute truth' and to engage in 'bhaki yoga' (devotional service).

Devotional service includes acting as a servant in Chris Butler's mansion or his personal kitchen, working in one of the businesses owned by SoI (and 'donating' a mandatory 25% deducted directly from employees wages), serving as a political candidate or other public position under Chris Butler's instruction or acting as an armed bodyguard. Every need for Chris Butler is catered for from doing his laundry to standing up wind from wherever he is as an 'air-sniffer' on alert for toxins and offensive odours or paddling in the surf to give the impression that the beach is crowded so he may surf undisturbed.

Deceptive and co-ercive tactics are used to recruit and maintain followers (devotees) such as claiming to be non-religious and non-sectarian or to be teaching meditation for 'stress relief' and yoga for 'fitness'. Details of Chris Butler's personal history and teachings are routinely concealed or fabricated. Shunning and retribution are imposed on disobedient and former followers.

While claiming to be teaching ancient and traditional forms of meditation and yoga all disciplines within SoI are the modern creation of Chris Butler derived from various influences. "Gauranga breathing" is claimed by Butler to be able to extend one's life while "Deep Peace" meditation is identical to the practice of progressive relaxation hypnosis. SoI has progressively evolved to the level of deception of presenting the ways in which devotees are instructed to live by Chris Butler as a form of yoga. Jaya yoga (Jaya meaning 'victory') was implemented... as a means of guiding recruits to Hawaii where the largest population of devotees and Butler himself live.

Chris Butler 'chastises', humilates, punishes, fines and banishes those who are displeasing to him. 'Chastisement' is a common theme in his recorded lectures where he details the problems his followers have written to him about, seeking his guidance, and derides them or is heard to berate a follower speaking with him in person.

Followers live in the general community, although they maintain strict isolation. Chris Butler teaches that to associate with non-devotees, is dangerous to one's consciousness and will lead to the destruction of their spiritual life. Devotees often live co-dependently of each other, sharing houses and with younger devotees taken in by disciples. There are some small communes especially for young single women where they are kept in near total isolation until marriage.

As it is not acceptable to marry non-devotees many families are related. Marriages and divorces are ordered by Butler and he condones his male
followers having more than one wife. Women are guided to feel useless and incapable of spiritual advancement if they do not have a husband.

Family is taught to be a false identification and raising children is accepted as being 'devotional service' with the only goal of parenting to be raising souls to be followers of Chris Butler.

Once a child turns five they are considered to be of age to become serious about spiritual life ...Sending a child to public school has been declared by Butler to be the equivalent of murdering them.

Followers of Chris Butler or 'devotees' fall into categories on the descending hierachy - 'pure devotees', 'senior disciples', 'disciples', 'students' and 'new people'.

Pure devotee is a distinction reserved for Chris Butler himself and those who are his close personal associates, such as his wife Wai Lana, who he gave the initiated name of Vaishnava dasi - meaning servant of a pure devotee.

In his own teachings Chris Butler places himself on the same level of character and devotion as Jesus Christ who he claims is also a pure devotee of Krishna.

Any action of a pure devotee is deemed to be pleasing to God, even when it contradicts the standards which Chris Butler expects of his followers or the scripture he refers to and has written himself.

Senior disciples are slightly more elite than disciples, ranked according to the length of time they have served Chris Butler as 'surrendered souls' and the closer their personal relationship is to him. Those who are considered to be senior disciples have been on friendly terms with Chris Butler personally and worked on his more ambitious or lucrative 'projects'. Mere disciples have often not even met or personally communicated with Chris Butler, even on their initiation.

The signifigance of 'initiation' is that a devotee has offerred their life and every action to Chris Butler and, according to him, that he accepts them on these terms makes the relationship equal. On initiation Chris Butler bestows a 'spiritual name' which his disciples become known by, typically a Vedic word which (often, but not always) corressponds alphabetically to their original name. He also chants a mantra on their japa beads and returns them in exchange for the promise that they will chant a set number, usually sixteen, of 'rounds' a day for the rest of their lives. A 'round' is one 'Maha' (great) mantra ...on each of a set of one hundred and eight beads which takes with takes about two hours a day.

Disciples are to be deferred to by students in the abscence of Chris Butler, which is typical as he is increasingly reclusive and uncontactable by all but a select few. They act to discipline through meeting among themselves and organise recruitment and projects.

Despite Chris Butler's personally absent spiritual guidance copious instructions are issued by him through his network of secretaries and staff in Hawaii and in his writings and recorded lectures. Disciples rely on contacting him indirectly through these means and issues which are considered important are brought to his attention through his secretary.

Students have had to demonstrate sufficient belief in Chris Butler to become progressively more exposed to his teachings, association with other devotees and involvement in his projects. Most long term students who do not contribute a significant amount of money or have been displeasing to Chris Butler in some way are shunned or considered spiritually dead. Not being initiated does not provide for liberation, creating an imperative to be as pleasing and devoted as possible.

Some disciples have taken advantage of this situation by soliciting money from students for investment and pyramid schemes, developing their businesses via free labour and manipulating sexual favours and money from students in exchange for recommending them for initiation. Chris Butler has shown no interest in these issues when they are brought to his attention beyond directing that all money should be sent directly to him.

New people are defined as those who are not deemed 'serious enough' by the controlling disciples to be given anymore than superficial access to the spiritual nature of the organisation and Chris Butler's teachings.

If a person becomes involved when they are aged beyond their twenties they are regarded with suspicion and may never progress above open classes simply because Chris Butler preaches that the older a person is without becoming his follower the more degraded their consciousness has become. Other factors which are considered is whether a person has a spouse or children that do not attend, whether they are regular attendants and if they have any assets or skills that are useful to service.

Chris Butler has an estimated twenty thousand 'devotees' with confirmed prescences in Australia, Belgium, Canada,China, Czech Republic, England, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Lithuania, New Zealand, Phillipines, Poland,Russia, Switzerland and the United States - particularly Hawaii, California, Arizona, New Jersey, New York, Washington and Texas.

SoI meditation and yoga centres, which serve as the primary means of recruitment, operate under various names. Typically titles are based on the location (eg- Australian School of Meditation) or favour the names of 'Chaitanya' or 'Gauranga' (eg- Chaitanya Mission and Gauranga School of Meditation). Names which contradict this general practice have also been documented (eg- Mantra Meditation in Hawaii and Gokula House in Melbourne,

SoI also carries on recruitment through dedicated 'outreach' operating in public spaces, such as libraries, community and youth centres, member's private homes, university campuses, through the WWOOF (World Wide Opportunities On Organic Farms) project, Brandon Raynor Massage Schools and Down to Earth 'Lifestyle Centres'.

Subliminal indoctrination is attempted according to the belief that exposing 'karmis' (non-believers) to the sounds of Chris Butler chanting and the consumption of 'prashadam' (food that has been ritually offered to the deity

Based on these beliefs SoI has established Wai Lana Yoga, which features the chanting of Chris Butler - credited as Siddha, Ajita's Vege Chips, the Down to Earth food chain, Healing Noni Juice and a multitude of smaller scale food service and musical projects, including Chris Butler's own failed rock star aspirations.

Even more abstract attempts to introduce SoI beliefs to an unsuspecting public include the cartoons Ninjai, Karma Kula and Wai Lana's 'Little Yogis' and coveting exposure in the entertainment industry.

As Chris Butler instructs his followers in what career they should take up it is interesting to note how many dedicate themselves to modelling, and acting, especially considering that Butler preaches the superficial nature of such professions and refers to watching movies as a waste of time. Under the guidance of Chris Butler is Radha Mitchell and minor actress Satcha Bellord, a stable of young models and aspiring musicians in Hawaii and Ground Up TV in the Phillipines featuring pop culture alongside solicitous female modelling.

Butler has pursued his political interests over four decades, telling his followers that one of them will eventually be president of the United States. To date he has succeeded in having a disciple on every level of Hawaiian government.

The 70s party Independents for Godly Government which included Rick Reid, Wayne Nishiki, Kathy Hoshijo, Larry Olsen and John Moore dissolved in controversy after Reid was exposed for engaging in dirty campaign tactics, on Chris Butler's orders... Other attempts to manipulate the democratic process have also surfaced.

In 1998 the EarthSave party was established in Australia by disciple Brandon Raynor in which every candidate was a fellow devotee. They failed to win any influence and have since disbanded.

Chris Butler's most successful political endeavour to date has been the Gabbard family. Mike Gabbard (Krishna Katha das) was elected Senator for Hawaii in 2006. Wife Carol Gabbard (Devaruti dasi) spent a record amount to win a place on the Hawaiian Board of Education and daughter Tulsi Gabbard-Tamayo won a seat in the House of Representatives in 2002.

Chris Butler's candidates show no party preference with Republican and Democrat candidates running simultaneously and Mike Gabbard switching from Republican to Democrat less than a year after being elected. Mike Gabbard has denied his allegiance to Chris Butler claiming to be Catholic, despite clear evidence to the contrary including 95% of his very unusual campaign contributions coming directly from SoI members. The only objective is to assure Chris Butler of as much influence as possible. With this same goal selected followers are directed to take up policing and positions with other government departments.

Various pressure groups have also been established by Chris Butler in the interests of gaining a controlling influence in the Vaishnava religious community and demonising homosexuality, with some interest extended to environmental issues. These include being a founding member and installing the president of the World Vaishnava Association, establishing and directing the Vaishnava Internet News Agency, Alliance Against Religous Vilification, Dharam Rakshak, Stand Up for America, several chapters of Stop Promoting Homosexuality and Save Traditional Marriage and the Healthy Hawaii Coalition.

Who is Chris Butler?

The youngest of three sons and a daughter born to Dr Willis Butler and his wife Barbara on 14th June 1948 Chris was born in Louisiana shorlty before the family relocated to Hawaii.

In his lectures to followers Chris does not remember his childhood fondly and as an adult became estranged from his family, apart from his brother Bruce, who became his disciple. He ordered his disciples in personal service to provide no details to his parents about where he was living refused to attend his own mother's funeral.

As an example of how unattached he is to his own 'material body' Chris Butler claimed to not realise that he was white until he was discriminated against by the local indigenous Hawaiians.

Brahman Realisation

Regardless of the different names the experience is the same. During this experience, the individual soul temporarily forgets his individual existence and merges into the impersonal Brahman effulgence... also known as the "clear light" or the "white light".

The experience involved can be brought about through various methods of meditation, prayer, chanting, and in some very rare cases, through the use of psychedelic drugs combined with any of the above mentioned processes. Also by psychosis.

According to legend among Butler's followers it was during an LSD "trip" that he reached the "white light" and claimed that he heard a voice telling him that he needed permission to enter. With this Chris Butler had a realisation that if he needed permission that there must be a higher authority above the impersonal goal. At that point he returned to material existence to share the realisation that God existed.

Origins In ISKCON

"That difference of opinion will continue, what can be done. Siddha Swarupananda Maharaja and his group, whenever they see me they give me money. So they are not against me."

-AC Bhaktivedanta Swami in a letter to his disciple Bhurijana 11th Nov 1975

In philosophy and lifestyle, in addition to sharing many critical aspects, SoI is derived from and maintains a strong resemblance to the ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) 'Hare Krishna' movement.

Most of Butler's philosophy, inferred credibility as a guru and his early following stems from his relationship with ISKCON.

There is an abundance of evidence to sugguest that he had a profound effect on the organisation in defining it's more controversial aspects and instigating challenges to authority that have proven highly divisive to this day.

Chris Butler claims to be the only true representative of ISKCON founder and guru AC Bhaktivedanta Swami. He portrays himself as a matyr violently oppossed for his devotion by those who became set on corruption following AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's death.

Chris Butler arrived in ISKCON in late 1970 bringing with him a substantial donation of $18 800, property in Hawaii and between 50 to 100 of his own followers. While the estimation of numbers varies considerably it is generally
agreed that Sai, as Butler was then known, and his following where the largest group to ever join ISKCON.

Bhaktivedanta would initiate over five thousand disciples, but only one received a page in ISKCON's Back To Godhead magazine to commemorate the occassion. Butler wrote offering his obeisances (respects) to Bhaktivedanta Swami, declaring his commitment to ISKCON and lamenting his past
spiritual misjudgements.

Chris Butler was given the initiated name Siddhasvarupa - meaning 'one that is accomplished in image'in June 1971. This is hysterically funny as he is certainly a master of "image" - of creating a fraudulent persona that has exploited people for years!

Just six months prior to his initiation Butler had produced Sai Speaks to promote Krishna Yoga Community, a reinvention of his pre-existing commune, which was linked to Sivananda Ashram. Sai claimed to have mastered every traditional form of yoga, although he was still only twenty years old, and to be a genuine spiritual master although, he admitted at the time, not in disciplic succession.

In his considerably revised personal history Butler would come to represent to his followers that he had attained to the highest level of enlightenment in the 'impersonal' philosophies (those which do not recognise God as an individual but within each human soul) only to encounter God himself and so become certain of his genuine existence.

At the time Butler was regularly using LSD, a fact he admits to in Sai Speaks and his publication "Drugs" and it was during a 'trip' that he experienced his divine awakening. He would later claim that the name Sai, which means 'master' was bestowed on him by Krishna. The name was actually bestowed on him by his initiating spiritual master of Sivananda Ashram as part of his full initiated name Sai Stokala Adhikari, which appears in Sai Speaks.

Hawaiian followers of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami were affronted by Sai's imitiation of their practices, including leading sankirtan (public chanting parties), collecting money and claims to be following their guru. Bhaktivedanta renounced any connection to Sai and directed his disciples to print and distribute a leaflet of his own design to inform the general public that Sai was not representing Krishna Consciousness.

At the time Hare Krishna had become a household name and being denounced by Bhaktivedanta severely restricted Sai's ability to recruit new followers as he had intended as well as challenging his authority in front of his
existing following.

Butler sent his closest friend David Muncie, who would become known as Tusta Krishna das, to study with ISKCON and began to corresspond with Bhaktivedanta in a series of letters enquiring about how he could become accepted. The offer of money and other assets was made immediately and received with much enthusiasm.

Despite their success and already having amassed considerable wealth ISKCON was involved with several very ambitious projects and experiencing some difficulty meeting debts. In particular the society's magazine Back to Godhead, founded by Bhaktivedanta in 1944, was unable to meet costs and under threat of being shut down. Butler may have been aware of this fact due to his association with regarded hallucenogenic artist Bob Schnepp who had taken up residence at Krishna Yoga Community after working for Back to Godhead.

Interestingly, under the influence of LSD Schnepp was responsible for producing Butler's 'authorised' images of Krishna. These he tells his followers are the only true and therefore acceptable depictions of God based on his own claims of having seen him in person.

Sai instructed his following who were accustomed to spending their days 'tripping', surfing and embracing the concept of 'free love' that they were joining ISKCON. All copies of Sai Speaks were directed to be burnt and the customs of ISKCON fully adhered to. Specific instructions were given about where followers were to go sugguesting that there was some intention to assume influence within ISKCON in Sai's favour...

By 1966 Gaudiya Vaishnavism was an obscure sect in a land of thousands but by actively appealing to the American 'hippie' culture and aided by highly influential figures including Timothy Leary Bhaktivedanta managed to convince thousands that his was the one true religion.

ISKCON was heavily focussed towards raising money as Bhaktivedanta directed 'by hook or by crook'. Any act intended to benefit the society was deemed not only acceptable but morally superior. As such the popular image of Hare Krishnas became irretrivably linked to public solicition. Contemporary observations refer to dodging gauntlets of saffron robed preachers in every conceivable public space. The New York zoo posted signs advising not to donate to the Hare Krishnas alongside the more traditional Do not feed the animals. A lawsuit was required to remove the abundance of preachers from airport terminals.

The older generations were troubled at seeing so many young people withdrawing from society to live in temples and follow a heavily ritualised lifestyle. Claims of 'brainwashing', control, criminal enterprises and abuse began to surface almost immediately.

In a long running courtcase, beginning in 1976, a minor named Robin George and her parents pursued claims of brainwashing and false imprisonment. In 1983 they were awarded $32 million in damages by a Californian jury, which was reduced to $485 000 in 1993 and eventually finalised by a private

ISKCON was futher tainted by widespread pick-pocketing and various street scams, drug use and dealing, abuse and repression of female members, high divorce rates, seperating parents from their children and abuse of children in their boarding schools.

Sulochana das who documented the direction of ISKCON following AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's death in his book The Guru Business was murdered in retaliation two days after publication in 1982. His killer maintained that he had acted on the orders of his guru Kirtananda, who was later jailed for racketeering.

In 2000 forty four complainants titled "children of ISKCON" filed a lawsuit for physical, emotional and sexual abuse in ISKCON boarding schools.

When AC Bhaktivedanta Swami died in 1977 he left no clear instruction as to who his successor should be. Eleven disciples making up the Governing Body Commission GBC, which Bhaktivedanta had founded himself claimed that they had been appointed. ISKCON was immediately divided by those who accepted the 'successor gurus' and those that did not. Some maintained that Bhaktivedanta had been poisoned.

Chris Butler was the first to publicly denounce the'successor gurus', claiming that they had fraudulently assumed control of the organisation since he himself was the only one qualified to continue AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's mission. Immediately following his death Chris Butler assumed Bhaktivedanta's title of 'Srila Prabhupad' - meaning he who has taken the position of the Lord.

Inside SoI

SoI maintains the most fundamental philosophy of ISKCON combined with Chris Butler's ...peculiar world view with him as the central godhead.

SoI does not recognise the distinctive dress code of ISKCON and Butler explicitly instructs not to resemble ISKCON devotees in anyway. There is no position of sanyassi (celibate male preachers) central in the structure of ISKCON and no attempt to follow the emphasis that Bhaktivedanta Swami placed on public chanting, maintaining temples, book distribution and charity.

Chris Butler has never built a temple or undertaken a single charitable project. Gatherings of followers typically take place in parks or on a beach.

Chris Butler's instructions are for religious practices to be cloaked in euphemisms such as 'yoga sound' for names of Krishna, mantra rock (for worshipping Krishna to loud music) and 'yoga lifestyle' for following his teachings on a daily basis.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: terrenaut ()
Date: May 07, 2010 02:43AM

Well, it seems to be official: God, Krishna, or any other names of God, have quietly been purged from Science of Identity association.


and on another note, Science of Identity has a television station in Wisconsin. Two licenses, one via Healthy's.

I wonder what the f**k they are gonna talk about?


Even though you'd think I would be used to it, even though I know in my brain and in my guts they are total frauds, it still hurts that they dumped God.


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Date: May 17, 2010 10:46AM

Been reading this thread for a long time....
I want to say I cannot believe all this went on, but alas, I saw and heard a great deal more than I was supposed to.
I saw many things that caused me to seriously begin to doubt the sanity of it all.
I remember that NZ scene for the movie you all were referring to.
Cultreporter, are you still looking into this??

From an article in the Christchurch Press in New Zealand from 6th October 2000 is the info that after 15 months in 1996 in New Zealand, alledgedly making a film called "The Lost Prince" 'scriptwriter' Chris Butler had not so much completed a script or started filming.

It was confirmed that the homestead Butler rented was 'lined in tinfoil, had all the carpets replaced with tiles, a complex and energy guzzling air filtration system installed, and the farm's water system supply augmented by trucking in water.'

The whole enterprise had the interest of a politician who used parliamentary privelidge to question if the production company called Tileaf was a bogus enterprise designed to circumvent immigration laws and called siddha "A guru or Godfather...of a Hare Krishna type movement and he is a man of dubious international connections". He also made comparisons with Koresh and Jones.

Although he settled out of court for an undisclosed sum in his defence this politician claimed that he had been briefed by Australian police, Interpol and the FBI who were investigating the filmakers "on suspicion of money laundering, international drug connections, and/or drug manufacture and distribution and breaches of the immigration act"

Another article from the Timaru Herald (also in NZ) from 12th feb 1998 states that all the documents from the investigation by domestic and overseas enforcement agencies would not be released because it would 'detrimentally affect the ability of police to maintain the law' and that the police claimed it would prevent such organisations from co-operating with and providing information to them. 150 pages of documents were however released to the newspaper and I imagine that these would be obtainable.

Its now 2010. I have been observing since 1979. Nothing seems to have changed, indeed from what I read here it has gotten much worse.
I know for a fact that laws were broken in more than one country, and def in several states in the US. I am sure you all must know what things I refer to if you were paying only the slightest bit of attention, with all the secrecy and the subterfuge you have to know that there definitely were
things the rest of us were not meant to see or know.
The world must know the truth, speak it and turn the "LIGHT" on, step out of the darkness......

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: anticult ()
Date: May 25, 2010 10:11AM

Those of a weak spirit succumb to the likes of Chris Butler. More than likely Chris does not understand his attraction to men. And that is alright. But there are those of us who kind of give into an idea and how it morphs into a following and then goes onto an enterprise only to become a racket....kind of like yoga or tv dinners...pick your era.

And with regard to an anti homosexual is it Mike Gabbard an attractive man with a Hawaii State Senator's salary chooses to live with his very attractive chief of staff Rock Riggs and play tennis with him across the street most is the premier denial of attraction...most homosexuals have desires disguised through business or politics. It is a strong following of men who refuse to act on or discuss their feelings that pave the way for suppressed wives, and children destined to spend two hours of their day chanting a mantra that keeps Chris Butler in his Lanakai home surrounded by his expert lawyers who keep him in compliance....especially days away from a challenge with the FCC over his WI SOI license...stay tuned for some great background information! There are those of us who are tired of tax averting cult is a sign of the times.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: terrenaut ()
Date: May 27, 2010 11:12AM

"Those of a weak spirit succumb to the likes of Chris Butler"

Although I totally take exception to that sentence, I do get the concept of people who follow and then become part of an enterprise and it turns into a racket...

I see that with the devotees who are close to him. Undoubtedly they started off pretty sincere but once they got into the enterprise, then good old fashioned human greed took over. I think that once you partake of the pleasures of having slave labour, lording it over others, having your every whim served, living well generally, then there is no going back.

think about how many of the devotees running "centers" are living the life, totally off slave labour, and no wonder they will do anything to maintain that lifestyle. Imagine having a job that entails travelling the world, giving a few classes in return for accomodation, adulation, free meals and transportation...and you can imagine that nobody would give that up, certainly not due to a few pangs of conscience.

I think they are trapped in their own greed, and therein lies the racket. greed always wants more.

I would dearly love to know how the FCC challenge goes, if you have the info, please share. And yes, it would give me a thrill to hear that the tax fraud gets busted. oh yes.

As far as the gayness (could that be a word?) of gabbard and butler, well..... that would be one for the books. hehehe. love it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: anticult ()
Date: May 31, 2010 09:45PM

When I referred to a weak spirit, I mean weak as it equates to vulnerability. These followers had to be vulnerable or unsuspecting in large part to have gotten hooked up with a crook like Chris Butler. There is another motivation though and it centers around the whole homosexual issue. Let's face it, within the past few decades, the moral majority leaders who spoke most loudly against it, turned out to be of it, but unwilling to admit it. I suppose if you rob a bank and do not want to go to jail, you lie to the authorities until someone can prove the truth. We cannot catch any of these men together and chances are they are not acting on their desires in any other way than to live together under the senior/junior disciple structure sort of like the priest and the altar boy.

A couple of statements or facts that back this up: 1)to paraphrase a quote from Butler himself, "I am not attached to the opposite sex." What in the heck does that mean? If you make a statement like that, you are opening yourself up to interpretations about yourself and the same sex. 2) What so called leader needs to become that outspoken against one issue to such an extreme the way Mike Gabbard has over homosexuality, if there is not a driving force behind it. And what is the driving force? Was he born to parents who championed such hatred? Is it such that a son and sister who are rumored to be gay are his motivation to speak out against it? I don't think so. I would go with the parallel to other leaders whose outspokenness is an attempt to veil tendencies.

Hawaii has a chance again in November to choose someone a little less extreme by not voting for Gabbard in his re-election bid. On the basis that he was reprimanded by his own party, he is not worthy to represent the Democratic party and surely the citizens will laugh if he tries to switch parties again, no doubt an independent this time if he is challenged by another Democrat in the primary. His most compelling legislation recently has to do with leaf blowers and hurting some of the few who do have jobs by forcing them to buy quieter equipment or work at times when it is not so annoying to him and some of his more arrogant constituents. We need someone with an agenda filled with a bit more substance than anti gay and anti leaf blower initiatives.

Any vote against Gabbard is a vote in the right direction for Hawaii.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 10, 2010 02:07AM

From Page 121:
"There is a lot of information already here, when you talk about documenting and having a source of information it sounds to me that you would like to see a credible source that is capable of confronting SOI with some impact. Seriously that is my life's work. I don't get the impression that they take it all that seriously although I would forgive them for having the impression that I am just fooling around with a blog. Again I would have to say that they don't really have much of a clue what he personally gets up to. They have not much of a clue what I personally get up to either :wink:

At the moment I know they are just sitting there and watching me and occassionally having a stab in the dark at getting me to shut up. It is obvious there are quite a few people with an interest in exposing them though and really it is only a matter of time.

Something has to happen to bring more attention to Siddha and raise the profile of the effort to see him exposed. I think media is the direction to go in and soon. Just my humble opinion. "

Yes something has to happen. With all this information on this thread, does the full picture now come into focus a little bit better?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 10, 2010 03:50AM

From 2007, EMNTK:
Date Added: 10/26/2006
Posts: 88 Krishna group in Hawaii "Oh! There was no order from Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa to mess with Cara's personal life. But you said it was a direct order from Chris. How am I to make up my mind whether you were lying then or later. Just like when a person joins SOI on a lie only to be told some other truth later. How is a person to know which is the real lie? Perhaps they are all lies, some are half truths and some are common sense convoluted and twisted to the point of absurdity. If you would drop the saintly act and speak as if you understand what is occuring here you might receive a warmer welcome.

You see because there is a problem with blaming my brother for everything and expecting him to sort it out. There are many people here that have an issue not unrelated but mutually exclusive to Cara's issues that you are also going to have to contend with even if the problem was resolved.

Why were you all criticising my brother in the first place? For being imperfect? Well that kind of back fired on you didn't it? Requiring you to admit your own imperfections. Cara was a new student and you somehow treat her like she should be perfect and all knowing that her actions are correct while you openly admit to your own imperfections after long standing involving with a so-called perfect spiritual master. Not that I think for a moment she has done a single thing wrong but it's just the contradiction I am getting from your post. You had her kicked out on the street. Then you state that this should not have diminished her faith in ASM at all. Not to mention the other disciples that were engaged in gossiping about her and to her. No how could she lose 'faith' in you guys at all?

If you expect me to believe that my brother's actions from here on in are in anyway his own given that you have admitted to blackmailing him, that he will never see his son again, on Chris Butler's order that he do as he is told, then think again

It's a religious cult and if you or anyone on the Gold Coast maintain faith in a guy in Hawaii that treats you all like his permanent slaves - "get me this", "cover this with foil", "eat my toenails", "toenails have been revoked", "I'm not going to speak in public because of an alcoholic individual out for a stroll", "give up on your children they are a waste and start with a new generation", and whatever else he is upto then you are blindly following a fraud. Many people are going to be hurt by this fraud if his religious cult (that is claiming not to be a religion) is not exposed.

Googling makes a good point. I remember before Veejay passed away Siddha criticised him for watching the news stating that if one is not planning to do anything about what they see there is no reason for them to know about world events. Then at the same thing he states that even a babies coughing is irrelevant? How is a war suddenly to take precedence over God yet a babies coughing should not. The war is irrelevant too right? Homosexuals doing what they do is irrelevant too? Even siddha's spiritual master stated so, to siddha, and this is the person who authorises him as a guru, his link in the disciplic succesion. Yet he is out there speaking out and politically motivated in making homosexuality illegal. That is way more important than concern of a sick child. Right? These contradictions in your supposed perfect spiritual masters teachings and behaviors hardly suggest that he is 'perfect'.

It is no wonder why this is going to effect many people. Because it makes your spiritual master look like a complete rascal. Your attempt to pass it off as gossip is weak. As if none of this is true it's just us having heard this from a friend of a friend right? Nice try RKd. :roll:

What is Siddha doing to rectify the situation besides getting you, his imperfect servant, to come on here and continually perform bad PR and make an ass of yourself? "
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Were I able to say anything at all that people might listen to this would def be it! They must be exposed before any more people get hurt--That is relevent !!
The following should be sent out to everyone:
It's a religious cult and if you or anyone on the Gold Coast maintain faith in a guy in Hawaii that treats you all like his permanent slaves - "get me this", "cover this with foil", "eat my toenails", "toenails have been revoked", "I'm not going to speak in public because of an alcoholic individual out for a stroll", "give up on your children they are a waste and start with a new generation", and whatever else he is upto then you are blindly following a fraud. Many people are going to be hurt by this fraud if his religious cult (that is claiming not to be a religion) is not exposed.

Options: ReplyQuote

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.