Re: [board.culteducation.com]
In mid August “cultreporter” posted a flurry of articles on the “chriskcon” website she has taken down. She was about to launch a fundraising campaign with flyers and pamphlets warning about the dangers of certain types of meditations and how cults lure people in through these centers. She stated that she wanted to start an organization that monitors and regulates yoga and meditation centers. There was a nicely drafted article critical of how women are treated in the cult. Why the sudden about-face?

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I certainly never wanted to believe that it was possible that Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa endorsed individuals being excluded from learning his teachings - not being welcome to the centres, not being able to purchase his lectures, in effect being discouraged and prevented from having a spiritual life. This is what happened to me.

Again, Prabhufraud’s full, inoffensive title. Apology for Chris? It’s the followers fault, not the guru’s - eh? Nothing wrong with the core philosophy?

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…in effect being discouraged and prevented from having a spiritual life.

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… effectively ending their lives seeking a spiritual teacher…

This is expressing the heart of the perverted Prabhufraud philosophy --- (and why I left!) --- the idea that someone can prevent or end a person’s spiritual life --- they teach that “you will die a spiritual death without a spiritual master or if you offend or leave him”. This is the same mind f---ing tripe that sets fear in a follower’s heart so they will not stray from the fold! Classic culty stuff.
They want you to believe this sh*t! NONE can prevent another person from having a spiritual life. But cults sure do try.
[I cannot say that I was deceived about ASM since my sole reason for coming there was so that I could attempt to become a student of Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa. I was confused as to the lack of recognition which he received in promoting the centres[/quote]
This is another total reversal. Cultreporter wrote extensively on how ASM and other centres were recruitment stations for Chris Butler! Now she says that they are not honoring him as they should!? Sorry?
Cultreporter, you never even met the man! Many of us (whom you has so vociferously flamed), lived through the whole cult experience! Now you are critical of ASM members for not being good enough devotees or recognizing JG Chris enough --- the same guru who you have been battling!?

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I was confused as to the lack of recognition which he received

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The disciples who were abusive towards me have been disciples of His Divine Grace and of Siddhaswarupananda since before I was born. The people that judged me did so without there being any website, without there being any wrong doing on my part whatsoever

Yeah, they follow that “judge-mental” freak JG! This should have been a signal to run! If people have been practicing this faith for so long and are still jerks – that should tell you something! So now you know. Weird, secretive communities only belong in horror movies like the Village or in cartoons like the Simpsons.

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I regret that I did not try a lot harder to make some contact with devotees prior to putting up my website… I will always hope that there will be some way that I will have a spiritual life, and even though I know the website did nothing towards achieving that

Another total reversal! I didn’t like everything on your website, but there was a lot of valuable and funny info. Much of it given to you by people you later vilified (but kept their material uploaded!) Now you are all gooey and repentant!? What’s up with that!?

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I say all this not to diminish my responsibility or to detract from the fact that I am sincerely sorry for what I have done and if there is some way that I can make amends for it I would definitely do so.

What!? What are you sorry for? Telling the world about “All Nothing” and the underlying coldness of the cult towards humanity!? Or how it deviated from it’s original philosophy? Or how Mr Guru lives high on the hog while the sheep bleat away on low or no wages!?

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I would hope that ASM might consider that there are ways that people become confused and discouraged and that there are ways that Jagad Guru's teachings do not neccessarily do the good that they could.

Oh really!? And after more than a hundred pages of testimony from ex followers, including your own story – his teachings do good?!
Not for a lot of us who lived through it!

Re: [board.culteducation.com]

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I dont belive that all of the answers I have gotten from former devotees are absolute or even neccessarily close to the truth.

You are right. There is a lot of garbage to wade through, especially on this thread. Some is speculation, some is just poking fun and venting, but there is a lot of truth from followers who were really there or citizens who have been affected by the cult. People like me, just-googling, Jules, Devadasi, Shanti, Zelig, Rama(his first posts), and others who were actually there. People who had children alienated from their parents when they came in contact with the group.
We were in the cult at different times and witnessed different things, but all left for the same reasons. We all found Chris Butler to be a narcissistic fraud and not a true spiritual master.
Yes, the group can give you a purpose in life, a sense of belonging and acceptance, a new culture, a feeling of complete self righteousness and clarity about everything in life. It is all very seductive for a person suffering from loneliness, in need of attention, and who feels disenfranchised from family and friends. There is camaraderie and good music. But it’s not all genuine. It is not an authentic way to live. It stifles creativity, ambition, philanthropy, financial security, and encourages prejudices not held prior to the cult. You have to measure the harm it does to the individual and their families. Do you really imagine that old Siddha is going to open an old age home for the 70 somethings when they can no longer serve!?
After we left the cult, we all went our different ways. We don’t all agree about our spiritual lives or politics, but we have found common ground and friendship in our past experiences. We don’t agree on the power of mind control or who is ultimately responsible. We don’t agree on how to fight cults or even if fighting or reforming is possible. We don’t even agree about how dangerous the cult is or is not. But we all agree that it is a cult and we are all happy to have left. We all agree that our lives improved the more we distanced ourselves from the sect. We all agree to caution everyone who comes in contact with Chris, SoI, and associates.

Re: [board.culteducation.com]

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The people that have come along to criticise SIF do not put their names or really their time into it… some have even attacked me for trying to do something without having any constructive criticism to add to the proceedings.

You have no right to judge. You do not know what people do or do not do in their lives. Nor is it any of your business. Anonymity is a protected right on this forum. This forum is for information exchange and opinions. You make a scapegoat out of Zelig who was and still is a formidable critic of JG and twist his words for your purpose. Time will tell. Every person reading this thread is ultimately responsible to find the truth for themselves.
The moderators ask us to respect each other’s opinions as long as we are not preaching, flaming, calling people names, revealing identities, or trying to undermine the integrity of the forum. Play nice.
In essence, by the above quote you are saying that all the posts on this forum from exes have been BS and only YOU have “added to the proceedings”. That’s mighty presumptuous, especially considering that you never even met or worked with Chris Butler!
No one on this forum “attacked” you for “trying to do something”. I don’t like how you blast everyone and accuse everyone of being an apologist or troll.
Now you have consciously posted a classic apology! See :[board.culteducation.com]
Subsequent posts are fuzzy and point the blame at others.
You have led a campaign against others for months, especially your favorite scapegoat who is no longer around to defend himself. You also published the location and names of forum members without their permission (Rick deleted and scolded you for this) which is against the rules. That was a hostile act and now you say the forum is too hostile for you? Pa-leeeez!?
Rick Ross asks you why and your answers have been vague and wooly. He asks you directly now – why take down the website? Why the sudden reversal about the cult? Why the preaching?
I’d personally like to see the forum get back to the topic of the Krishna Group in Hawaii.
You have admitted to having a Disassociative Personality Disorder due to the cult. Perhaps that warrants compassion and explains the situation. You have stated on your websites that you are on Public Assistance for additional health problems. So you do have access to free medical care and funds. I'm sure Rick Ross Institute has many ways to help too.

I just finished reading an inspiring book. If anyone really wants to see a good example of integrity, spiritual strength, and real courage in face of a dangerous Uber cult-- read Marianne Pearl’s book, “A Mighty Heart” about her husband, the Wall Street Journal reporter who was beheaded by Islamic terrorists. She is an incredible example of grace under fire. A movie is out too. I have not seen the movie so I have no idea how it compares to the book.

I was not going to post to on this forum anymore but something has to be said in support of Dassi's posts. Nicely analyzed Dassi.

I have re-read this "apology" letter many times and and have compared the use of words to previous posts cultreporter has written.

I am very skeptical as to the authenticity of the letter and it's author.
When reading it I find it feels like one of those Chris Butler orchestrated pieces of correspondence that painstakingly covers every little bit of detail making SIF and the ASM organisations look like the perfect cult to join and Cultreporter as an unfortunate girl with challenging health issues.

Interesting the chain of events at the time cultreporter posts her letter.
I might add why would you not post the letter on this forum where anyone interested in the subject of Chris Butler would be inclined to read.
Perhaps you didn't really want too many peopel to see it!

The same timeframe the apology letter posts Chris Butler's political puppet MIKE GABBARD BECOMES A DEMOCRAT! What a hypocrisy!

Also Cultreporter and Vegiechipsucks posts state for the record they are about to blitz the streets with anti SIF posters and flyers!

Maybe the real source of all the cash use to fund Chris's projects was about to be exposed. Let's see the Money muels from Australia to USA have now been exposed. I am sure homeland security would find this of interest! Or even more so the source of all this cash- where does it really come from and where does it go to.
One finds it hard to believe Queen Bee's yoga shows make THAT much money, but hey it is the perfect vehicle to feed it all through
Perhaps the IRS was now taking an interest in SIFs non profit religious tax status and causing some heat in the hood.

FYI it looked like CultofButler website had already been out of action prior to the apology letter.

Maybe cultreporter was offered that illusive book deal and there was a clause prohibiting her from further exposure. She certainly has enough
material kindly provided by ex disciples and students.

Perhaps someone was paid off here! SIF is not immune to this. Chris would pay in order to have his political aspirations through the likes of RICK REED and the GABBARD family left alone.

The money is always there in this organization to do what's necessary.

I would like to hear Zeligs take on all this! He was very insightful and I believe had many good comments to say.

"To the moderator" can it be requested he be allowed back in to comment? His posts were some of the best ones I read on this forum. Cultreporter's hostile responses to him turned me off posting.

jules:

Zelig broke the rules and will not be allowed back.

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Dassi
“Cultreporter”~
... Don’t take this as a personal attack, it’s just that the ideas you are expressing in the Open Letter seem to completely contradict all your RR posts, blogs, and website for the last year, so it is puzzling.

[b:6c14512eb2]Puzzling[/b:6c14512eb2], indeed!
One day cultreporter is apologizing for putting up the blasphemous website...
The next day ... When asked by the moderator of this forum why the turnaround, the answers are indeed very "vague and woolly"!

Well said, Dassi :D

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jules

... One finds it hard to believe Queen Bee's yoga shows make THAT much money, but hey it is the perfect vehicle to feed it all through
Perhaps the IRS was now taking an interest in SIFs non profit religious tax status and causing some heat in the hood.

I had always presumed that the yoga show was raking in millions for the queen bee and her guru ... and hence their multi-million dollar lifestyle ... (kind of like the Oprah Winfrey show???) ...

HOWEVER, if this is not the case, then it looks pretty bad to have these two living like billionaires, off of the backs of the poor workers at the yoga mat sweat shop, and the workers at the chip factory, etc....

I certainly don't know much about tax laws in the U.S.A, but I can imagine the IRS would be interested in these activities and the non-profit religious tax status.

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zelig
[b:eb42433171]Quite a period peice of historic cult paraphanelia! ROTFLMAO! Karma lecture from a 20 year old with delusions he is Christ! Sitting on a Vyas Asana!!!!! ..."little demonic creatures gnawing my leg..... " :lol: :cry: [sarcasm] Oh free me great guru from the gnawers![/b:eb42433171][/size:eb42433171][img:eb42433171]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/Yodaplanet/Sai%20Speaks/saispeakspage27saionvyasasana.jpg[/img:eb42433171]

[img:eb42433171]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/Yodaplanet/Sai%20Speaks/saispeakspage28.jpg[/img:eb42433171]

[img:eb42433171]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/Yodaplanet/Sai%20Speaks/saispeakspage29.jpg[/img:eb42433171][/size:eb42433171][/img]

Tukorama says, " There are two kinds of people in the world, the gnawers and the gnawees!"[/color:eb42433171] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:wink: THANKS, ZELIG, for posting this copy of "Sai Speaks" on this forum ... this story of gnawing on the lettus head really shows how these people think ... even an organic salad is a path to some horrible hell! ... and simply by putting the salad in front of a picture of a blue man will solve all your problems for eternity!

I have reposted this page becuase it is difficult to navigate around this forum and so that newcomers can check this out. (From page 80 of this thread)

:wink:

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atheist
This cult and its reclusive guru have an interesting story. Somehow, it has flown under the radar of the mainstream press, mainstream business and religious press and TV/Video/Film media and book authors and scholars (except for Rick Ross) for more than 20 years.

I think there's a big story here. A hippie surfer/druggie guru who sets up large and successful businesses. The guru and his group have political ambitions and an agenda. His wife has a PBS-TV yoga program that is distributed by KCSM-TV in San Mateo, CA.

The guru has devotees around the world.

The guru makes no public appearances and no public statements, at least over the last decade or so, and still seems to attract devotees.

It seems to me that there could be a book about this, perhaps several. There could be a PBS-TV documentary and a "60 Minutes" segment. Why not a documentary film? Magazine articles in Harpers, Atlantic Monthly, Vanity Fair.

It certainly would help to have professional writers, researchers, reporters, investigators, authors and documentary makers looking into this. I suspect that there is some funny business going on.

Over a more than 20 year period, the guy and his devotees have formed a political party, which almost got some candidates elected to major offices in Hawaii. They've elected 5 devotees or affiliates to public office in Hawaii: Wayne Nishiki to the Maui City Council, Rick Reed to the Hawaii State Senate, Carol Gabbard to the Hawaii Board of Education, Tulsi Gabbard Tamayo to the Hawaii House of Representatives and Rick Reed aide Mike Gabbard to the Honolulu City Council and to the Hawaii State Senate.

Consistent issues on the political agenda for the group, over the past 20 years, include opposition to equal rights for lesbians and gays and opposition to reproductive rights, including abortion. Other issues are, or could include: opposition to water fluoridation, opposition to the the teaching of evolution in school and opposition to birth control and family planning, opposition to separation of church and state.

There are challenges: The story is complex. Every major player has at least two different names, their Hare Krishna name and their regular name. The religion is arcane.

Potential authors, researchers, documentary makers, etc should be aware of the success of the book [b:c24f05a140]"Monkey on a Stick: Murder, Madness and the Hare Krishnas,[/b:c24f05a140]" by John Hubner and Lindsey Gruber. I believe that this book was a best-seller.

(I did contact John Hubner about doing a follow-up to "Monkey on a Stick," including some information about Chris Butler and the Science of Identity Foundation. Unfortunately he does not seem to be interested.)

"Monkey on a Stick" is out of print, but should not be, since the whole Krishna Consciousnous movement is rising up out of all the scandals and they are recruiting again.

Atheist- Nice synopsis and good ideas.

Thanks Jules for the compliment.



I campaigned door to door for the Independents for Godly Government, Sid’s first attempts to overturn the government. I was one of the unpaid lower life forms in the group. No doubt considered retarded.

Z said it well:

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I gave over a year of my life to the “Independents for Godly Government”. It was not a “Hare Krishna” party. It was Chris Butler’s brain child. He micro-managed every piece of it, approved every flier, every door to door script and groomed every candidate. Candidates were hand picked based on their ethnicity, looks, and the fact that they were locals. We all knew politics to be corrupt. We were environmentalists, anti-abortion (based on the belief that the spirit soul enters the body at conception is a life), and against any kind of exploitation of others, including animals. We wanted to return to a more native and traditional Hawaii. We wanted less technology and were inspired by economist E. F. Schumacher’s “Small is Beautiful”. We were idealists that wanted to spread “Aloha Aina”, love of the land. We imagined bringing “Vrindavan” (the idealized farming communities in the krishna legends) to Hawaii. We imagined closing down the slaughterhouses and bringing down the high rises in Honolulu. We imagined clean beaches, solar and wind powered houses, organic farms. We wanted to stop the commercialism and exploitation of Hawaii by the tourist industry. We worked long and hard hours for the campaigns. We used all our expertise and talents. We imagined we were serving God.

What we never imagined is that we were all pawns in the hands of a man who really was just out for his own delusions and self interests. We never imagined our guru riding around in jets with a woman who was the “offering” of her husband. We never imagined all the donations going to the luxurious lifestyle of a couple of petulant and childish adults pretending to be spiritual masters. We never imagined that the corruption we fought against would become the modus operandi of our master. We were dangerously naïve.

During this first campaign in the 1970’s, men and women were housed in separate apartments. Usually we slept in sleeping bags on the floor. Living with a bunch of hormonal chicks was no pic-nic. But we thought we were doing the right thing. We’d wake up and chant our rounds as we loaded up in trucks and vans to have an early morning kirtans in a public park. Sid of course was never there and we were forbidden to reveal he was involved or even if we were Hari Bol peeps. The cook would lay out all the food for the day on blankets on the grass. We had yogurt and fruit in the morning and some piss poor lunch of some tofu burger thing. We would work morning till night. We ate a non-descript dinner and passed out till morning. I missed dinner one time because my ride forgot to pick me up. When I finally found my way home by bus, the guys in charge gave me sh*t.

Sid told us a bunch of lies about Cec Heftel (I think Hoshijo or Moore was running against him) at the time. I ended up being invited in to the home of a man who played for the Honolulu symphony. I spewed the party line. He noticed how hot and tired I was and fed me lunch. He was really cool and happened to know Mr. Heftel very well. He proved to me that what we were being told was a lie. I was embarrassed. It was just “another brick in the wall” for me.

I’m sure Sid’s political machine runs on “Slick 50” engine lubricant now (or maybe a little Astro Glide? :lol: ) – and is a lot more sophisticated. Actually, it used to be that you HAD to run as a Democrat to win in Hawaii. I was surprised to see that had changed. Cult members Hoshijo ran on the Democrat ticket as did Nishiki and others.

For Americans, it is rare for a politician to change parties, but it happens periodically. Party platforms change. Leadership changes. The important issue with Gabbard is what will he do different as a Democrat?

As far as I am concerned, both parties are corrupt.