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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Dervish ()
Date: February 16, 2005 10:31PM

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I have had no success finding out about this school which apparently is run by Butler (off-shoot Krishna guru) somewhere in Phillipines. Young people attend, Americans and other. I would appreciate any information please.

According to what I have been told by various Krishna devotees, including one former disciple of Butler, The Phillipines school is not merely for local devotees but for those all over the world who want quick indoctrination. Some have been known to stay there for a year. Hawaii and Philipines are the nerve centers of Butler's group; Hawaii due to proximation to Butler, and Phillipines due to this center. Do you need the exact location of this school?

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: bonnie ()
Date: February 24, 2005 02:56AM

I have known several young children who went to the Phillipine school. They seem well adjusted, on the surface at least.However, very little real information about the school has been divulged to me, although I did not pry.

All the children I knew who went there were children of parents who are initiated devotees of Jagad Guru, leader of Caitanya's Mission on Oahu.He is a former surfer, former impersonalist guru, former(present?) proclaimed devotee of ISCON, the krsna consiousness movement.I have heard tales of his trip to India following his Guru, Bhaktivedanta Swami.

He teaches total intolerance of homosexuality and seems to focus on this in an obcessive fashion, relating intimate details of homosexual sexual practices in a sniggering way. He also requires that certain medical tests, such as a TB test, be passed and a health card is required to get near him;(I know this first hand, it's not conjecture).
I know of devotees that built special homes for him; he is apparently chemically sensitive or believes himself to be so, and special building materials were used. (Wish someone would do that for me).

Chris Butler, AKA Jagad Guru is married to a woman devotee from the phillipines, a yoga teacher and producer of Yoga instructional videos.
He is reputedly celibate.
I have not had the chance to meet him, although from a series of incidents that occured when I attempted to do so, perhaps this was intentional on the part of the devotees.

His devotees seem very down to earth and pragmatic, normal, albiet deeply pious middle class families, except for one thing;In my decade long close relationship to the group, I felt a close friendship to the group, but as time went on they kept and even increased their distance from me.
As for schooling, there is a farm on the Big Island which preaches the word of the Guru, allows wanna-be devotees to live there, and apparently funds the "mission" of Jagad Guru. I know many people who lived there, but circumstances prevented me from going there when I had the opportunity to do so. I was never given an adress for the farm. Even non-initiates who went there loved it. It sounds like a great place.

I don't like having a president who believes he is on a divine mission.
(Separation of church and state and all that)
I would not want a homophobic, (I am NOT gay), intolerant, firm believer in his own version of religious truth
to have political power, own his own or through one of his dedicated devotees.

The group has always linked themselves to Christianity but seems to be increasing that connection; now there are pictures of Christ on the altars and devotees are proclaiming themselves to be Christian. Well, why not, in this new age of intolerance and the new Church/state?
Scary times we live in.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: bonnie ()
Date: February 24, 2005 03:02AM

I know the group quite well through friends outside of Hawaii. Lectures on a military base? Very interesting. Do you know that the devotees have strong right wing leanings? Not what you'd expect. And I was very interested to find out that the had a republican front man running for public office. I'm interested, now.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Dervish ()
Date: February 24, 2005 07:54PM

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bonnie
I know the group quite well through friends outside of Hawaii. Lectures on a military base? Very interesting. Do you know that the devotees have strong right wing leanings? Not what you'd expect. And I was very interested to find out that the had a republican front man running for public office. I'm interested, now.

It's been said that Butler was a driving force behind "Independents for Godly Government" which was a right wing political group which started in the late 1970's. I haven't heard anything directly to this effect though.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: bonnie ()
Date: February 25, 2005 10:28AM

I know of scandalous devotee divorces, etc., but nothing blatantly illegal. Divorce is strictly verboten in the chris butler school of worship.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Jacob D. ()
Date: March 18, 2005 12:58PM

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Dervish

Here is a video of Butler bashing Christianity. Strong contradiction to their preaching efforts which are typically laced with Christianity and biblical references.

I looked at the clip and I looked at the entire lecture and it was so clearly taken out of context in an attempt to change the meaning of what Chris Butler was saying that it raises questions about everything else that people are saying on this site. If you are going to be so dishonest about something so obvious as this, then obviously you’re not going to be telling the truth about other things either.

You’ll find all kinds of people who are Christians saying very similar things where they criticize other Christians who aren’t real Christians (from their particular vantage point). Pastors and preachers will often times be quite critical of people who call themselves Christians and they will use the phrase “so-called Christians” or “people who say they are Christians” but who are basically hypocrites (again with each particular preacher having their own viewpoint of course).

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: March 18, 2005 09:57PM

I was given the video in which he bashes Christianity. I did not view the video that Dervish linked, but the video I had was not taken out of context.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Dervish ()
Date: March 19, 2005 09:40AM

My opinion remains the same as it was before; that essential tenets of Christianity are under attack. Hope has seen entire videos and felt put off by the messages. This in my opinion, describes the discrepancies of the Christian references in a lucid manner.

Nonetheless, if that's just a film excerpt, then we should disregard it and watch the same film in its entirety. However, from what Hope and others say, it seems that wont change the message. Feel free to post the full thing (link), either in video or transcript form. culteducation.com is about truth, and I think everyone here wants to get to the bottom of things. In my opinion though, info for this film in question will never be produced. Missouri is called the "Show Me" state. Show us :)

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Jacob D. ()
Date: April 07, 2005 11:31AM

In response to Dervish’s comments, I doubt the full video is going to get posted because then there would be copyright infringement (for people to be posting other people’s property, etc.) but I will post excerpts from the video to give the context of the actual point Chris Butler was making.

Earlier in his talk (before the out-of-context video clip) Butler said:

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[i:cf8e3890a1]"Jesus Christ said, ‘My first and foremost commandment is that you love the Supreme Lord with all your heart, all your mind, your entire being.’"

“This is the aim of saintly persons. They want you to develop your love for the Supreme Person. They want you to develop your attachment to God. In this way naturally your attachment to the material dimension will decrease. You will be happy when you're developed in your love for God."

”When your love for God is there, you will be full within yourself. You’ll be happy. You’ll actually be satisfied and free from your anxiety and fears.”[/i:cf8e3890a1]

Chris Butler was clearly putting forward the teachings of Jesus Christ and later used sarcasm to point out the contradiction between Jesus’ instruction that we should love God, and the misinformation put forward by some so-called Christians in a brochure that God is unlovable, cold, hard, faceless, and just downright mean.

The following is a transcribed excerpt from the “out-of-context” video clip where Butler was sarcastically describing the drawing/illustration of God in a brochure he had received which was being distributed by a so-called Christian.

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[i:cf8e3890a1]You've got all your information about God there. Number one what His form is. What He looks like. He's a faceless big dude, cold as ice, okay. The second thing is... and He's hard as concrete. The second thing is His activities. What's God into? God likes to sit there and throw people into fire…. So this is His activity. His activity is He picks up the people like a sadist, you see. Can you imagine this? They say, "That is one of His main activities. It's His primary thing in life. I mean, you know, that's what He does before and after breakfast and all throughout the day. I mean that's what He does. I mean it's a long job, you know? One by one. There's a lot of people, you know, dying all the time. ‘Gee whiz can't I ever get a break here?’ He doesn't want a break. He's such a sadist He loves His job, you see, He loves it. He drops these little people in the fire and they're burning and burning and He sits there enjoying it, you see? That’s God. That's what He looks like and that's what He does. That's His character. “[/i:cf8e3890a1]

Butler then drives home his point that God’s character is exactly opposite the brochure’s portrayal of Him. (Of course, the following statements weren’t included in the out-of-context video clip.)

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[i:cf8e3890a1]“We’re just describing how God is portrayed in some [u:cf8e3890a1]so-called Christian[/u:cf8e3890a1] pamphlets as basically an unlovable sadist who we should be extremely afraid of.”

“This is all complete nonsensical speculation. The reality of God is completely different.”

“Jesus says, ‘Love the Supreme Being with all your heart. Love this Supreme Being.’ But Jesus is asking me to do the impossible. Jesus wants me to do the impossible. Jesus wants me to love that thing? Jesus wants me to love that? How is that possible? It's [u:cf8e3890a1]not[/u:cf8e3890a1] possible. It's [u:cf8e3890a1]not[/u:cf8e3890a1] possible. Jesus is [u:cf8e3890a1]not[/u:cf8e3890a1] going to tell me to do the impossible. In other words, he is not going to tell me that I will be happy and that I should develop my love for God then I'll be happy if God were not loveable. And the creature that they put forward [in the brochure] as being God is not loveable, you see?”

“The fact is the Supreme Person is all loveable, all attractive. There's no one more sweet than the Supreme Person. There's no one who loves you more than the Supreme Person. There's no one who wants you to be happy more than the Supreme Person. There is a great disservice being done to the people of the world through these nonsensical so-called Christians and other fanatics who put forward this false image of God as being the big bad cop, Godfather, judge, sadist. That's not God. That’s not God.”[/i:cf8e3890a1]

In other words, Butler is specifically referring to the distributors of this brochure as a “so-called Christian” because they are doing a disservice to mankind by giving the false, distasteful impression of God as unlovable. Hardly the “mockery” of Christianity that some people are trying to portray.

In regards to what Hope said, if she has specific information on other lectures where someone has bashed Christianity, then instead of her just bad-mouthing Chris Butler and making baseless claims, she should post complete excerpts (in context) of those lectures with information on the dates and so forth of the lectures. Otherwise, she’s just badmouthing somebody without any evidence.

I also find it strange that people are essentially upset that Chris Butler is not sectarian. In other words, he seems to stick to his basic message that the goal of life is love for God and others. And he doesn’t let sectarian feelings prevent him from appreciating this message no matter where it appears, whether it appears in the Bhagavad-gita or New Testament, etc. Personally, I would have thought that such a non-sectarian, non-cultish, very universal attitude would be appreciated. I think it’s great that someone can capture the central theme or idea behind all the world’s religions and promote that, rather than just the externals of those religions.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Campos ()
Date: April 08, 2005 08:26AM

I stumbled upon this site and read some of these things and it made me nauseous. I know many devotees of Lord Krsna including many who are students or disciples of Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda (aka Chris Butler). I find them to be practical, intelligent, independent thinkers and as far from blind followers as you’ll ever find.

I find it completely hypocritical and bigoted for people to imply that Jagad Guru’s students are “evil” for getting involved in the community in such occupations as teaching, law enforcement, business, and politics. It’s okay for members of a particular Protestant, Catholic or other Christian denomination to be involved in the community in such ways, but if Hindus/ devotees of Lord Krsna get involved in such ways, it’s considered an evil conspiracy. Of course, if such devotees remained as monks living a secluded life in the temple, then they’re accused of being cultish. They’re criticized for “not contributing to society.”

The unfortunate fact is that as long as there are bigots in the world, like some of those who have posted here, then no matter what devotees of Lord Krsna or Lord Buddha or any person who practices a minority religion do, they’re always going to be discriminated against.

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