Quote
Ian Koviak
I heard so many lecture where butler just could not get enough of bagging on homosexuals (and was made to write essays on this crap—sometimes having heard the lecture 6-10 times before, since for some reason butler just stopped giving lectures at some point). We were forced to watch completely vile anti-gay videos in the PI that left my stomach churning. They were scare-tactic videos showing poor gay men who were sick and dying from AIDS and close up clips of gay parades where men were engaging in intercourse in the street and so forth. We were between the ages of 10-16. I was 12. This was butlers great educational system. To create an army of bigoted, angry boys who knew tae kwon do, could not express them selves sexually without being viewed and made to feel as flawed specimens and animalistic and taught verse after verse from the Gita, a veritable war cry, instigating one to simply act and follow without thinking because it was your great and chosen "duty". Bravo! Hurrah!

Ian,

Astonishing. This is child abuse. I wonder what was taught to the girls? What was Tulsi Gabbard taught at the girls school in the Philippines? You know, the girls counterpart to your school. The one Tulsi calls a "Missionary School" in her biography. Tulsi did at one time support her father's anti-gay agenda. Were the girls indoctrinated at the school in the same way? By extension, this can lead to self hatred and over time the possibility of an ideology that condones female genital mutilation.

I did hear a story of a young man in the cult who so feared his erections and sex drive that he would literally grab his penis and try to break it. His fear of spilled seed outweighed the pain.

Here is another inarticulate page of Chris Butler's talk On Education in 1984. Realize that the words coming out of Butler's "lotus lips" is considered divine, enlightened, as if coming from g0d himself and not to be questioned.

Again he talks about "real life" which is absurd coming from his deluded brain. As evidenced by Ian's report, the "real life" is a perverted vision of reality only meant to shut down critical thinking and support Butler's system of control.

His view of children not knowing what is going on and just wanting to play is also incorrect. Research has shown that children are far more aware of what is going on than adults realize. They are far more capable of reasoning and moral intelligence than once thought, unless you damage this by destructive cult practices like droning chants in the early morning.

Butler's advice is to start admonishing, scaring, and instilling guilt in children about their sexuality before natural biological urges appear. How that played out is well described by Ian. Sex education in the Butler cult is far from "real life". Part of the reason the cult is so secretive and two faced is to hide these facts.

Butler tells his followers that no one is interested in the Science of Identity until they suffer. So Butler instills artificial suffering in his followers in numerous ways to manipulate them to come under his "saving" control. He is teaching parents to do the same thing to their children.

In this talk he is also implying that teachers, curriculum and instruction have no value unless you teach the children to submit to the will of guru and his ideology.



(FAIR USE excerpt of page 12 for critical review and discussion. Any one wishing to view the full document On Education can PM me.)

Anthem for Chris Butler Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda . . .
Frank Zappa's classic satirical song.

"What's The Ugliest Part Of Your Body?"

What's the ugliest
Part of your body?
What's the ugliest
Part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
(I think it's your mind)
But I think it's YOUR MIND
(Your mind)
I think it's your mind, woo woo

ALL YOUR CHILDREN ARE POOR
UNFORTUNATE VICTIMS OF
SYSTEMS BEYOND THEIR CONTROL
A PLAGUE UPON YOUR IGNORANCE & THE GRAY
DESPAIR OF YOUR UGLY LIFE

Where did Annie go
When she went to town?
Who are all those creeps
That she brings around?

ALL YOUR CHILDREN ARE POOR
UNFORTUNATE VICTIMS OF LIES YOU BELIEVE
A PLAGUE UPON YOUR IGNORANCE THAT KEEPS
THE YOUNG FROM THE TRUTH THEY DESERVE . . .

Rama wrote:
Flash is the single greatest researcher I have ever known, and their prowess has impressed me to no end ever since I got re-involved almost a year ago.

Yes, Flash's invaluable work is essential to this forum. His site is always up there on Google search. I too have great respect for Flash and grateful for his tireless effort.

I remember before stumbling upon this site, I felt alone and lost, recovering from my cult experience and barely coping with shattered life. At least, now, I feel assured that those in the same situation I was in when they seriously look for an answer, they will find here. To heal is long and painstaking. Like Rama, posting here served as a therapy for depression and hurt; finding solace in the accounts of others helped a lot — like it meant the world.

That said, I still hope this forum continues to evolve to become a haven for ex-members to speak freely up and contribute safely, and for those seeking knowledge, comfort and escape from the cult. Forums that are open and free are simply impossible to police; sometimes rules and guidelines are no match for differing personalities, interests, motives and tastes. We are complex species. That maybe is one reason at one point we were attracted to cults. But I strongly believe that as long as we are sincere, the truth will rise over the troubled water and resonate with serious seekers. It just works slow, that's all.

Leaving a cult is not just physical or social; most importantly, it must be psychological. To be truly free, it's not enough to just dust off all the external influences but also the mini guru that stubbornly stick in our minds. It’s tricky, takes time and conscious effort to get rid of the baggage and trapping we have adapted and practiced while in there. Traces linger longer than we think, trauma can also be irreversible if awareness and resolve are not strong. Ex-members I’m in touch with have difficulty relating with others despite being gone from the cult for years. They find issues in just about anything, over and over.

Problems arise so we could become aware of, learn from and fine tune our conducts; if not, it is advisable to seek professional help. Henri and Rick are the experts on this.



Reading through MyKailua, there was another religious cult in Lanikai called The Source that the locals confused with Butler's, that has since died away. Ex-members posted that the leader was goofier than Siddha but definitely more influential. That means it's highly possible to decimate a cult.

Isn't that motivating enough for our collective resolve to be more cohesive?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 09:22PM by dharmabum.

This message board was launched more than 10 years ago and contains more than 100,000 entries. It has been a safe haven for many former cult members and also for families and others concerned about controversial groups.

Frequently news stories have begun here about many groups and leaders. Perhaps the most significant was the series exposing Geronimo Aguilar, the leader of a mega-church in Richmond, Virginia called the ROC or Richmond Outreach Center. Aguilar was convicted for sexually assaulting minor children and is now in serving a 40-year prison sentence. It was the bravery of former ROC members posting here that first focused attention on his crimes and eventually culminated in a an investigation, which led to Aguilar's arrest.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The effectiveness of this message board has not gone unnoticed.

Landmark Education sued and lost in court trying to censor this message board and Web archive. But a federal judge protected the anonymity of members posting here. All told the Cult Education Institute (CEI) has been sued five times by groups called "cults" unhappy with information shared online through its Web presence. They all lost. CEI was represented pro bono by some of the most well-known law firms and lawyers in the country. And organizations concerned about free speech such as Birman Center at Harvard University and Public Citizen in Washington D.C. were also helpful.

Very few sites on the Web concerned about cults can claim a similar history of standing up so successfully and effectively against destructive cults.

At times people will post at this message board and then decide to move on and start their own blog and/or website. There have been many spin-offs since this site was first launched in 1996.

CEI is honored by the participation of so many dedicated people over the past 20 years of its online history and is greatly encouraged by the results achieved in greater public awareness about the issue of cults through the World Wide Web.

This thread is yet another example of significant work accomplished through an accumulation of posts by former members and others concerned about a group and its leader. This thread is quite prominent in search results regarding the Science of Identity and Chris Butler (aka Jagad Guru) as is this message board regarding many other groups and leaders and CEI generally through its extensive archives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 10:30PM by rrmoderator.

This is great: [www.facebook.com]

Rick Ross, we appreciate this forum so much, and this forum has been the fulcrum point of almost every major event in my life.

Dharmabum the info about The Source church on My Kailua stuck with me. I think I chatted back and forth with the son of the leader or someone like that. They way they said that as soon as the guru died, the cult disprersed.

I can absolutely see this happening with Chris Butler, too. The cult is held together by the strong demands of serving him, taking his abuse and accepting his disapproval of you.

Surely when Chris dies (and we all party super hard), Wai Lana and her parasitical faux royal family will milk the loyalty of a portion of the members who will continue to serve her and her family but all in all, at the very very least I look forward to Chris Butler becoming worm food, dead cold and lifeless signaling an end to the living nightmare of a half century that he reigned over.

May Chris Butler truly go down in history as a deeply sick, sadistic and abusive man. And he sure will, as soon as this cult falls, one way or another, everyone will begin to tell their stories locked tightly within Chris Butler's hellish cult.

Vera you SMASHED it out of the park, your post on the Barbara Butler book was definitive.

Ian so good to have your contributions, your writing is awesome DABCULT too

Thanks.

This message board has been around for a long time.

Rick,
Your forum has been the single most important factor in the healing of many people who have escaped the cult of Butler. I have been on this forum for around 8 years and was able to forward many articles and resources to friends still suffering from their time in the cult. It has been of inestimable value in the recovery of one individual in particular, who was in an apologist daze for years after leaving the cult. Having access to information on more than one cult, the stories and struggles of fellow cult escapees and critics, the golden resources (no where else to be found on the internet), has brought at least one exer out of hell.

Quote

"Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world." — Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:9; Yerushalmi Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin 37a.

There are not enough words to thank you Mr. Ross.

Vera wrote:
Your forum has been the single most important factor in the healing of many people who have escaped the cult of Butler. I have been on this forum for around 8 years and was able to forward many articles and resources to friends still suffering from their time in the cult. It has been of inestimable value in the recovery of one individual in particular, who was in an apologist daze for years after leaving the cult. Having access to information on more than one cult, the stories and struggles of fellow cult escapees and critics, the golden resources (no where else to be found on the internet), has brought at least one exer out of hell.

Rama wrote
Rick Ross, we appreciate this forum so much, and this forum has been the fulcrum point of almost every major event in my life.


I second the above. Buckets of tears are shed and financial resources squandered for the loss of loved ones to the cult, especially the little ones. It’s sad that the law and society’s hands are tied in dealing with this issue. One family is way too many.

True, there are the nicest and the most talented people in the cult, and they advocate spirituality, good and healthy living and practices that cultivate love, compassion, mindfulness and devotion to God. Unfortunately, they are varnished virtues and a facade, overemphasized to hide the true aims of all cults: subjugation of the minds by power-hungry elites; exploitative and sometimes illegal practices; and hypocrisy to the max. All in the name of God and bankrupt ideology.

The law of karma, the Bhagavad Gita and the story of Krishna are mere tools to propagate an exploitative mindset. Look no farther from the fate of India and the most bizarre exploitation of the Dalit masses via the caste system and cartoon gods and goddesses. Although banned by the law, Caste system is still prevalent because it is ingrained in the religious minds of the people. The same manipulative setup props up many Hindu-based cults in modern society.

A cult is a cult is a cult, no matter how cool and progressive it looks from the outside. All cults share the same above veneers. Unlike the ISKCONs or other cults, just because the Haribol kids dress up just like anybody else that they are your normal, average neighborhood kids.

You only need to watch Tulsi’s eyes when she speaks about Krishna to understand what goes on between the ears. The same is evident when you speak to a child born in the cult - wide-eyed, robotic and otherworldy - as he or she parrots same slogans over and over and over again: “No meat, no eggs, no alcohol, no stimulant, no gambling and no illicit sex”. From birth they are made to utter slogans like the above and “you are not the body”, plus the obviously indoctrinating Vedic mantras which meanings are as foreign as Latin. The design is to groom the brain to a high-demand milieu of another world – a morally superior and culturally advanced – that contradicts the mainstream life and values. If all else does not seem to work the final nail to the coffin of a child’s innocent mind is the magic password: “Parbhupad said … blah blah blah … ”. To violate this is the ultimate and unforgivable sin, sending the child into a bottomless pit of psychological depression and finally loss of innocence and identity. Thus, the ultimate assault to critical thinking that is essential to all human beings.

The unseen damage to the minds of the children that are oftentimes ignored is what alienates them from the out-groups (families, relatives, friends and society) that otherwise would have been a source of love, nurture, empathy and opportunities. Instead, they become dependent on the milieu they are born in. They need not be told, alienation becomes routine and automatic.

To argue that Tulsi is just another regular person of another faith is to ignore what separates a cult from mainstream religions. People born in a mainstream religion somehow retain in varying degrees critical thinking and cultural link to mainstream society; whereas a cultic upbringing sees the outside world in an adversarial black and white way. You cannot separate the obviously manufactured brand – the first Hindu U.S. Congresswoman from the cultic upbringing.

From my previous post, I did not mean to imply that this thread is full of holes; rather the holes are made possible when a poster violates the rules when he or she volunteers to reveal identity to a guileful plant. It happened; my hope is to not get repeated again. Otherwise, this site has my full trust and my utmost respect and gratefulness to Rick.

Without this site I would not have known Rama, Ian, Lalita, Carl and other millennials born into the cult, outside this forum, who chose not to participate actively nevertheless continue to read through. They are my inspiration for not giving up, that it is entirely possible to see through the religious veneers unfortunately old-timers like me had the problem escaping from until life was completely shattered.

I continue to hope that inquisitive and hungry minds get to find the answer here to escape from the invisible prison they were put into; to finally find their true potentials and become proactive and healthy members of society.

Justice for Sri!

I am thankful concerning all the people that have contributed to this thread and the many other threads throughout the message board.

It was a very difficult but necessary transition moving from rickross.com to culteducation.com and the temporary data loss at the message board was a nightmare.

Glad that everything ultimately worked out.

This board has turned out to be the largest and most enduring public message board about cults, controversial groups and movements on the Web. As a result of that fact what people post here has a lasting impact.

This is exactly the kind of thing that early Internet pioneers envisioned regarding free speech on the Web and its potential to do good.

When CEI was first launched 20 years ago that was my hope.

Thank you all for your kind comments.