All too often we are told to have open minds or 'dont be judgemental' when someone or something tests our disgust boundaries.

Sometimes it is worth testing our boundaries as in trying a new food or new art form -- the area of aesthetics/recreation.


But, areas of sanitation, ethics, our sexual safety zones and basic good manners, its wise to be cautious when someone applies pressure on our disgust zones.

WHoever and whatever gives us that 'skin crawl' sensation -- watch out.

But, areas of sanitation, ethics, our sexual safety zones and basic good manners, its wise to be cautious when someone applies pressure on our disgust zones.

WHoever and whatever gives us that 'skin crawl' sensation -- watch out.

COBOY you have written exellent remarks on the neurology of disgust

its tide in with SELF ESTEEM AND SELF RESPECT

What kind of mind set do one as to be in to beleive

"EAT YOUR GURU TOE NAILS AND YOU WILL GET SO MUCH SPIRITUAL BENEFITS "

"SPIT ON HIS LEFTOVER PLATE >>>MIGHT SAVE YOU FROM A FEW LIFETIMES OF SUFFERING
Its brainwashing ats his finest

I know I use to be eager to eat Swami Bhaktivedanta ..leftover and spit ....

Sweet Jesus was I brainwash .

Thanks, Corboy, for reminding us of this horrific ritual and thanks also to Dabcult for his knowledgeable observations about brainwashing.
In case anyone missed it, I wrote awhile ago about my own research into these alleged practices. Here is a quote plus the links to the research”
“Drinking foot bath water and eating toenail clippings.
Well, here I am again to shed some light on the Truth. Some people have taken offence when foot bath water and toenail clippings are mentioned in association with Science of Identity founder, Chris Butler.
It would be a huge embarrassment to admit to falling for such utter nonsense and a truly disgusting ritual, so it’s no surprise that the truth is hard to find. I have confirmed that the foot bath water drinking was practiced by the founder of the modern-day Hare Krishna movement. Since Chris Butler might have drunk from his Guru’s bath water, it makes sense that he would demand the same devotion from his owner followers – especially when CB is the self-appointed successor to His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

I am now convinced that Chris Butler’s own foot bath water was, and probably still is, consumed by his followers. My research is typed below and the ritual is proven by the preponderance of the evidence, in case anyone wishes to sue the Science of Identity Foundation.
Regarding the eating of Jagad Guru’s toenails, there is an unlikely possibility that the reports are mere myth. Using the principle of Occam’s razor, I conclude that toenail eating is more likely true than not true.
Read my research and decide for yourselves…”
[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
flashlight_on_roaches
Thanks, Corboy, for reminding us of this horrific ritual and thanks also to Dabcult for his knowledgeable observations about brainwashing.
In case anyone missed it, I wrote awhile ago about my own research into these alleged practices. Here is a quote plus the links to the research”
“Drinking foot bath water and eating toenail clippings.
Well, here I am again to shed some light on the Truth. Some people have taken offence when foot bath water and toenail clippings are mentioned in association with Science of Identity founder, Chris Butler.
It would be a huge embarrassment to admit to falling for such utter nonsense and a truly disgusting ritual, so it’s no surprise that the truth is hard to find. I have confirmed that the foot bath water drinking was practiced by the founder of the modern-day Hare Krishna movement. Since Chris Butler might have drunk from his Guru’s bath water, it makes sense that he would demand the same devotion from his owner followers – especially when CB is the self-appointed successor to His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

I am now convinced that Chris Butler’s own foot bath water was, and probably still is, consumed by his followers. My research is typed below and the ritual is proven by the preponderance of the evidence, in case anyone wishes to sue the Science of Identity Foundation.
Regarding the eating of Jagad Guru’s toenails, there is an unlikely possibility that the reports are mere myth. Using the principle of Occam’s razor, I conclude that toenail eating is more likely true than not true.
Read my research and decide for yourselves…”
[forum.culteducation.com]

Flash ~ Once again, a great compilation and effort. Henry also mentioned that toe nail consumption was verified by someone who grew up in the cult. Waiting, waiting, for them to come out of their closets and post here.....they know it was all bullshit...

Other people have been inveigled into drinking off scourings from gurus and have been able to tell how they regretted it. If anyone needs encouragement to come forward, here is a description by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson, of an incident in the 1950s when he was 18 years old, visited a guru in India and was told by his own father to drink the guru's foot water.

This incident concerned Swami Ramdas, now deceased.

Quote

A few days after arriving at the ashram, we were summoned to Swami Ramdas' room. He was surrounded by a circle of disciples, in the center of which was a woman vigorously washing his bare feet. As Swami Ramdas went most places barefoot, his feet were definitely in need of washing. However, I dont think this was the purpose of this particular ritual. I noticed that instead of throwing the water away, it was saved in a special container. when the wamn had thorougly washed both his feet and collected a considerable amount of the filthy water, it was placed in a glass, and with great fanfare, handed to me.

"I was given to understand that my father and I were going to be granted the rare privilege of drinking the holy water from the holy feet. I turned to my father in panic and asked him in French, "Que fais-je?" (What should I do?)

"Bois" he instructed. Drink.

I did. Then it was passed to him. He ceremoniously poured it over his head, a gesture that was well received by the diciples, and showed even greater devotion than drinking. I later asked him why he hadnt told me about this trick and he explained that it could only be done once. I thought the ritual was ridiculous and unhygenic. I wanted to vomit.

On the same page, Masson tells us this:

"Swami Ramdas never made grandiose claims. "I am but the servant of God" he sould say, as his name implied. Yet the devotion he required no matter how quietly, somehow seemed to demand that he be more."

pages 114-115 My Father's Guru by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson.

Note that Masson does not convey any awareness or resentment of having been betrayed by his own father. His father had lived for decades in the United States, this was now 1958, and the elder Masson was clearly aware of the hazard of drinking dirty water. But he allowed his own son to drink it, when he could have spoken French and told Jeffrey how pour it on his head and thus avoid drinking it.

What is also interesting is that the two visitors do not appear to have become formal disciples of Ramdas, yet were invited to drink this water. Was it a sincere invitation to a blessing? A compliment? Or a trick to get them to become disciples?

What is noteable is how hard it was to refuse outright when faced by a guru and crowd of devotees.

Vera City; I kind of was debating about whether to post this at all, but thought since you bought it up, it might be useful to you(and others) to have another perspective on why few children raised in groups show up on the board.
Firstly, you have had several brave ex group kids show up here..
But here are some things that may be going on that you haven't considered.
Most of you guys were adults in the group at the time when these people were kids. Adults are generally expected to protect kids, or may be considered complicit in their abuse. If you guys did nothing to help kids who were in the group, while you were there, and from what many of you describe these kids had a pretty abusive upbringing; then some of them may resent you.
Other kids will indeed see you as equal victims, but in my experience, not all of them will. Some never do forgive the adults in their respective groups.

Another aspect that seems to show up over several different groups is a dynamic where the expectation is that the kids in these groups somehow owe the adults, rather than the other way around.
Even on this thread, pictures have been posted of the children raised in the group and in some cases their full names have been used.
I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware that when you leave a group, being able to start a new life often includes choosing to tell people about your past in your own time.Yet for these kids, this thread has "outed them" to anyone who wants to do an internet search on their name ,whether it is potential employers or whatever, and even posted photos.
Some may not thank you for that, or feel you had their best interests at heart.
As a general rule, most posters here like their own anonymity to be protected for a variety of reasons. The reasons will apply to kids in the group too, and given their lack of choice in joining, perhaps they should be given more, rather than less respect in this matter.

Not trying to be harsh here;(or lay a guilt trip on anyone; don't think anyone needs any more of those) and my own personal take on the adults in my group,and the adults in this group and other groups, is that for the most part they did the best they could from a point of bounded choice, with no intent to cause harm, or awareness of the effects what was happening would have, on the children from the group.
People make mistakes and grow, it is part of being human.
Wishing you guys all the best; just giving a different point of view.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2013 04:11AM by yasmin.

Quote
yasmin
Most of you guys were adults in the group at the time when these people were kids. Adults are generally expected to protect kids, or may be considered complicit in their abuse........................

Yasmin, my significant other and I used to think like you.

And, yes, I think you were harsh. Not cool.
I was never a member of the cult and the former members I am connected with did not neglect their kids. They got them OUT!

I still believe that the TRUTH outed is the purpose of this forum. I am well aware that it pisses off people in the cult.
Let the truth stew within these kids even if it pisses them off. It may free a couple.

The stories, the history, the modus operandi needs to be told in the RAW.
I am aware that only a few will be able to break free, but over time... who knows?
I will never stop telling the truth about the damages of this cult even if it upsets a few.
As far as photos and info that is brought to light here. It is all public record, most of it due
to the brave efforts, fabulous research skills, and due dilligence of Flash.
If these kids can come to realize how their parents were manipulated, perhaps they will make better decisions.
Perhaps seeing their lives looked at on this forum will give them pause to THINK CRITICALLY.

The flashlight on the roaches may be more beneficial in the long run after all....
As I said, I used to think as you do, but I am changing my point of view.
This forum is over seven years old!
I am certain the aging children will come forward in time.

Hi Vera City;
Sorry you felt it was harsh; as I said;not my intention.
You seem to think I am asking you not to tell the truth about the group. Toe nail water drinking? Ugh.Go for it.

Yet some things you seem to be saying don't add up.
You were never in the group but you are sure that

A) Every x member you know treated their children well,

and B) Children in the group were treated so badly that they often have major problems..

its a sad truth that nice, good, kind people do not always treat their children well while in the grip of a cult.

Have you ever asked the kids of these ex members, what their honest memories are, of people/life in the group? You might need to face a truth here too.

(Honestly, even amongst x members of my group, I often choose to downplay some of the stuff that happened. Why make people feel miserable for stuff they can't change? But i also know ex group kids that feel differently, and don't ever really forgive the adults who let things happen..)

Parents who may be trying to get kids out now, may have not been the best parents earlier. It happens. In fact, IMO it is more common than not.


To put this in perspective,: from your investigations about the truth of this group, would you say that most parents in the group were "good parents"? Involved, or neglectful?

The experiences that adults here have complained about; how do you think they would feel from a childs perspective?

One last thought.
Your ex member friends; did they broadcast their identities on the board, or did they have reasons why it would be a bad idea for them?
Yet not one person, none of these really concerned parents whose identities are hidden, made any comment, or spared one thought for any childs privacy.

I do agree with you about putting the facts of the group out there. I don't think that needs to include kids names and photos .

A lot of descrimination comes from being known to have been raised in a group. Rather like a rape or child abuse victim, people assume you have major baggage.

Its an easy decision to make to release someones identity, when you have no consequences from it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 01:14PM by yasmin.

Friends, Butler and his supporters would love it if a flame war came up on this thread.

Two, we have a member of the Butler clan who has been elected to high office.

Three, it can take up to 25 or 30 years for persons who were children in cults to recognize what was done to them. What is of the utmost importance for persons who grew up in cults is having access to objective information about the group they grew up in and whose dogmas were treated as unquestionable.

For an important parallel, Tim Guest, whose mother took him into Rajneesh's group when Guest was just three or four, wrote a memoir "My Life in Orange."

The one thing he was able to hang onto was a newspaper clipping. He has pictures in his book himself and other children.

And there are now published lists of people who were at various rajneesh communes such as this.

[www.sannyas.net]

So -- please, lets keep matters courteous and, above all, informative.

Yasmin says “I do agree with you about putting the facts of the group out there. I don't think that needs to include kids names and photos”

Aloha Yasmin:
I don’t recall if you have ever posted anything truly supportive to our cause of exposing the cult of Butler, so forgive me if I don’t give you credit you perhaps deserve. Your recent posts include tactics similar to those used by apologists for Butler i.e. pretending to agree while secretly hoping to undermine this message board and especially the forum members who are most dangerous to the cult. Vera is one of the most valuable contributors to our shared cause and truly dangerous to Butler’s continued manipulation of his followers. In the course of my research, I have had many opportunities to test Vera’s knowledge and conviction. Anyone attacking Vera is a candidate for “Butler apologist” in my book. As Corboy has written, it only serves Butler’s interest when flaming distracts us from the mission.

The posting of kid’s names began here when I discovered the blog of Ian, a former student at the cult school in Baguio City, Philippines. Ian’s writing led me to believe that he was deeply damaged by his parent’s devotion to Butler and the abuse at the school. Yet, Ian happily posted names and photos of his boyhood friends - as if his happy memories somehow negate the evil of Butler or his friends continued devotion to a madman. Anyone who has read the Diary of Anne Frank knows that children are resilient and can find laughter and joy even when imprisoned. Yes, I did take things to a new level by posting the adult photos of Ian’s pals, but only after my research concluded they were still followers or apologists for Butler. No one has ever messaged me or the moderator (or posted here) stating they have been unfairly “outed” on this board. As Vera notes, their identities are a matter of public record and they chose to post the images of themselves tied to their names. I would never knowingly post the identity of any ex-follower who has convincingly exposed Butler.

Regarding the damage done to cult “children” that I’ve exposed here, what harm has been done to Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard or her US Marshal sister, Vrindavan Gabbard? Has the public been outraged that Mike and Carol Gabbard abused their five children by raising them in devotion to a sicko like Chris Butler? It is clear that it takes a lot more to cause damage on the Internet.
As you mentioned in your first post, people might Google their own name and discover themselves “outed” on this forum due to my research. That was my purpose and remains my purpose. Truth may set them free.

Peace.
Flash