i felt the need to defend the chabad movement as a whole
i dont know whats going on in these chabad places ur talking about but its really not something that typically happens i am very surprised by this
like i said bedore i hope this matter gets resolved peacefully

Quote
sandy72
i felt the need to defend the chabad movement as a whole
i dont know whats going on in these chabad places ur talking about but its really not something that typically happens i am very surprised by this
like i said bedore i hope this matter gets resolved peacefully

You can't defend the Chabad movement as a whole. You can only defend your corner of the world you know. How can you judge what "typically" happens? And if it happens, why do you not speak out against it as it makes your group look bad. And why do you have no sympathy for the grieving mother just because she is non-observant according to Chabad? I'm also assuming that you are a young girl who lacks experience or access to the real world of Chassidic men.

What you need to realize is that a lot of abuse gets shoved under the rug and is under-reported because of the admonition to not say anything bad against a fellow Jew and "loshon hara". The premise is, of course ethical, as gossip and false accusations can deprive people of reputation and livelihood. However, it gets used to the extreme and actually can do more harm and create a situation where more aveiras are commited than not.

The Torah commands us, "Do not stand aside while your fellow's blood is being shed." (Vayikra 19:16) In the Sefer Chofetz Chaim (on the laws of speech) it states that we are "obligated to spare no effort in preventing our fellow Jew from suffering physical, emotional, or monetary damage". It also says that "in a situation where a potential victim is unaware..." (as with a teen-aged girl) "...that he is being threatened, one is required to warn him even though this will reflect negatively on the person or persons responsible. Speech of this sort is not merely permissible, it is obligatory."

And if anyone in Chabad says that the Chofetz Chaim was a "misnagded", remind them of the saying that if the Alter Rebbe and the Chofetz Chaim actually met that it would have hastened the coming of Moshiach (since they believe in that sort of thing). They respected each other and did try to have such a meeting.

I know of a woman who came crying to my wife because she was ostracised by a gaggle of Chabad women for wearing a teichel instead of a sheitel (because she was allergic to materials in the sheitel and it was causing an oozing rash around her hairline). This was a prominent group of women who insisted that "the Rebbe did not approve of head scarves...blah, blah...."

When she had a barbeque with her husband, none of these ladies (and therefore their black hatted husbands) would eat what she served .... "...well, we don't eat at other people's houses because we are not sure about the kashrut..." She was 100% Chabad level of kosher for years! She was devastated by their snobbery. Her husband stepped forward in a bold move, playing on their prejudices, and asked them why his wife's food was not good enough for them but they will go out to a kosher restaurants where Mexicans and non-Jews serve and handle the food!

And the whole kashrut business can also be a big scam where competitors will lie about each other's hechshers. "Don't eat that brand, it is run by the Satmars and they said bad things about the Rebbe." "That brand is not kosher, only buy the Chabad brand....etc." And people buy these rumors blindly. In fact, the orthodox community is one of the most superstitious and easy to manipulate peoples.

I have a good friend who worked for one of the major Chabad accepted hechshers. He said they didn't have enough guys to do all of the inspections and barely paid the ones that were actually doing the work! It's always best to buy unprocessed and fresh food as far as possible and this huge, mass produced kosher business is a fairly new phenomenon. And there are guys in the business who are addicted to internet porn heading the inspections! How can this be kosher since the Rabbis are supposed to be so clean and their consciousness so pure!?

Do you also know that is okay for a married man to have an affair with an unmarried woman according to Jewish law? It is not considered adultery. They will deny this to you, but it does go on.

Do you remember the sheitel (wig) scandal a few years ago? All these women were burning and throwing out $2,000 and $3000 dollar sheitels all over the world because of a rumor that the hair came from India and was used in idol worship! So all these women had to re-buy, at great expense, new sheitls from "approved" companies. I was consulted on the matter due to my experiences with the Vedic and Hindu culture. I told them it was all hog wash and hair is not an item offered to dieties! They did not believe me until it later came out that the whole story was false. Too late for the husbands who shelled out all that money and the Jewish wig makers whose businesses were slandered!

How is that for your so-called love of your fellow Jew!

You say that you have not seen things in Chabad, but they exist. If you are involved with this cult, you should be aware and change things from within. Others are doing it. They are trying to live a true Torah observant life and do good deeds in the world and avoid cultish practices. There are fine people in Chabad. I'd like to think that most are.

But no one should be so stupid and naive as to trust this group without question or accept the Rebbe blindly as "moshiach" (or pre-moshiach or other rationale they will confuse you with) or as an object of worship. They tell you that they do not engage in idol worship, but just go to 770 or certain places in Israel and hear the cries of "Yehi..." during a mass gathering. And I have never been to one Chabad shul that did not have a huge picture of the Rebbe prominantly displayed! Having been in a cult where the guru is venerated as G0d's pure representative, the words are different, but the emotions and hysteria are non-different. The psychology of fanaticism is non-different.

Take the beauty and traditions of Judaism, study Torah with as many different types of Jews as you can, travel and gravitate to the truly loving and kind, no matter what stripe or observance level. Question everything. That is the true tradition and legacy of Judaism. And speak out against injustice or wrong doing. "Do not stand aside while your fellow's blood is being shed." That is what is meant by loving your fellow Jew.

While I cannot confirm what goes on inside Lubavitch, I can confirm that they are almost constantly recruiting new members on the streets of NYC in a very heavy handed manner. Often, they will take young men and brainwash them to harass people on the street and ask "Are you Jewish?". They quite literally get in your face and try to stop you from walking. In addition, they are backed up by older men in so-called "Mitzvah Tanks", which are RVs outfitted to be mobile recruitment stations. Here is a picture of one:
[en.wikipedia.org]

Such recuritment tactics are standard operating procedures for many cultic groups.

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K.D.
I will do EVERYTHING that I can to let all Jews know that these practices are taking place....
I am a devoted Jew... no one, not you or Chabad can tell me that I am not "Jewish enough"... we all have to be strong and stand together against this type of practice! This activity has NO place in Jewish life.

Ms. [D.] -

There are similar cults that operate among Catholics (as well as Protestants and Muslims for that matter), one of the most powerful being called Opus Dei. A woman lost her daughter to this cult a number of years ago (but eventually got her back). She experienced many of the same things you are, the lies, stonewalling, denials, etc. So, she decided to start her own non-profit to inform others about the danger this cult presented called The Opus Dei Awareness Network: www.odan.org. Perhaps you can start one called the Chabad Lubuvitch Awareness Network to inform other Jews. The ODAN website has been tremendously helpful in providing accurate information about the cult to other Catholics. A site about the dangers of Chabad would be, I am sure, most helpful to the Jewish community in America.

Please be aware Chabad will most likely start to harass you. When they do, please feel free to use this Cease and Desist Letter that has been used many times against the Opus Dei cult:
[www.crcnyc.net]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:42AM by rrmoderator.

Three weeks since our beautiful daughter disappeared.... this Saturday would have been her graduation with honors from her high school.

The Chabad rabbi who is responsible for her leaving still denies any involvement. Even though we now have proof that he is paying for the apartment that she is living in, got her a job, and essentially is paying her way to be in NY.

This guy is a creep and a predator.

We feel handicapped in our efforts to get her back!! Since she is now 18... again it is not a simple situation.

You are correct about the harrassment......we are now getting threatening phone calls at our home.... I am sure that it is them due to the thick accent. The police and phone company are investigating.

Thanks again for the help...



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:54AM by rrmoderator.

Karen,
No one can know what you are going through right now or all of your circumstances, but our family's prayers are with you. I am sure you will pursue the path you need to find peace with your daughter one day.

Karen,

My wife saw your posters at the Cingular store in Ponte Vedra, and when she told me about what happened, we both were moved to want to help in some way. We are not Jewish but Christians, but understand, at least a little, the risk of wanting to be and being religiously fervish and the dangers that can come along with that in terms of a cultish mentality or cult using that mentality to try to gain control over you. We haven't been in a cult, mind you, but have seen a lot of near cultishness and genuine cults within the Christian community and think we know a little about it, and it's probably similar as all these insular groups prey on genuine desire to be wholeheartedly committed to God.

My daughter just graduated from Nease, and it's heartbreaking to think of what you are going through. One reason I am posting is not just to share our concern and sympathy, but if possible, we'd like to help.

No, we are not law enforcement or an intelligence service agent or anything, but maybe we could do something. We will definitely pray, but we could also perhaps get in touch with someone in New York familiar with that group and just see if we could do anything. We'd like to help.....don't pin your hopes on us or anything, but if we can help in anyway or try to reach her, we are interested in seeing if that's possible.

This is my first post on this forum, and I don't yet know if private communication via private email is possible. If it is, I'll await your message, and if not, I will gladly just post my personal phone number and my wife's.

Karen,

I live in Ponte Vedra. My daughter just graduated from Nease and my wife and I would like to help in anyway we can. I posted a longer message, but didn't seem to show up. Hopefully this one will.

Quote
K.D.
You are correct about the harrassment......we are now getting threatening phone calls at our home.... I am sure that it is them due to the thick accent. The police and phone company are investigating.

[K.D.] -

Harassment is standard operating procedure for cults. Most likely the person making the calls is not person who is the head of the cult, but one of the members of the cult. This is known as "plausible deniability", whereby the leader can say he is not harassing you, and that he cannot possibly be legally responsible for someone else's behavior. While legally correct, it is morally bankrupt. However, if you start sending the leader of the cult the Cease and Desist Letter, you start to establish a paper trail that shows a pattern of harassment. It also starts to establish the fact that they are not in complete control of the situation, that you have rights as an American citizen and that you are willing to defend them. Here is the letter again:
[www.crcnyc.net]

Just change Opus Dei to Chabbad, and include your state anti-harassment laws. What state are you in? I could update it if it is not on there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:11AM by rrmoderator.