My handle is richardmgreen. I became a Senior Member of the forum several years ago and I have left a ton of documentation on the site in refererence to Chabad. You might want to try the document, "I Could Never Be Good Enough for the Movement" and look on [www.amazon.com] for my book reviews. Pull up Confessions of a Jewish Cultbuster by Rabbi Shea Hecht and you can see all of my reviews which are extensive.
I have relatives who are orthodox and they love Chabad. I got married through Chabad and it was a fiasco. I was called a dog and everything else by my uncle and my cousins and I was threatened with death and bodily harm. Whatever Chabad is pushing, it's not a religion of love, I can assure you of that.
Also, the term Chabad is not a nickname, it's an acrostic for Chochma ("wisdom"), binah ("knowleldge") and daat or "understanding".

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I have no address, no phone #...nothing. It will be a week this Thursday...

This is very very scary.

The Chabad Rabbis know where she is and there is nothing we can do!!!

I want to physically go in and get her out of this "white slavery" if only someone could help me!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:57AM by rrmoderator.

Your daughter is 18 so you have limited options.

Working lawfully through the organized Jewish community in an effort to establish some level of meaningful communication would be the first step.

Subsequent to that you might be able to set up family counseling sessions with a professional counselor in your area.

That seems to be all you can do at this point.

There is a Federal Statue for missing persons 18-21 that will allow a missing person report to be filed for those under 21.

We just found out about it today.

As for "meaning conversation" that must be a phrase that the Chabad uses often also because I have heard that phrase now at least 25 times in the last week. Unfortunately we have been to every Rabbi from the Conserative to the Orthodox to the Chabad... and no one can get past the fact that the Chabad knows where our daughter is and is hiding her from her parents. They deny it and we know it is true.... so there is a huge empass. We want her to finish her secular education and return home to therapy... they demand??? that she be able to stay in their community and attend seminary for 2 years.

The Chabad broke every rule about Parent/Child relationships. There is no possible meaningful conversation with Chabad... and they are the only people that can get my daughter back to us.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:56AM by rrmoderator.

We have now found our daughter. She is totally brainwashed and has made the decision to leave us, her family for the CULT CHABAD AND THEIR SEMINARY, against our wishes.

She will soon become one of their "baby making machines". It is with a very heavy heart that I know that before she associated with Chabad her aspirations were to be a physician. SHE IS A BRILLIANT GIRL WHO WAS COMPLETELY SUCKERED IN BY THE LOCAL CHABAD RABBI AND THE CHABAD MOVEMENT.

FIRST THE CHABAD RABBI CONVINCED HER THAT SHE WAS NOT JEWISH. (because she was raised in a Conservative shul) NEXT CONVINCED HER THAT DUE TO THIS SHE MUST BE IN SEMINARY FOR 2 YEARS. Next the Rabbi introduced my daughter to a "Orthodox Man"... 33 years old who became my daughters "svengali"... this man was a wolf in sheep's clothing ...

This low life had repeated unprotected sex with my daughter when she was 17... surely trying to impregnate her so that she would BE STUCK WITH HIM AND THE CHABAD!!!!!!!!!! There is nothing Orthodox about this character ... he is NOTHING MORE THAN just a SEXUAL PREDATOR IN TZITZITS!!!!!!!

AND for now it looks like they have won... BUT!!!! I will continue my Chabad is a Cult campaign and continue Public Speaking against their movement for the rest of my life time. Somehow that might give me an ounce of peace from this nightmare.

What a waste of a beautiful accomplished young woman.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:56AM by rrmoderator.

Karen, I am very sorry for what you are going through. there is a difference between losing the battle and losing the war, though.Steve Hassans website has some good stuff on how to communicate with a cult member, and so does this one.
if you can bring yourself to keep the lines of communication open with your daughter( at least as much as you can), then maybe three or four years down the road, when she is pregnant again, stuck with a mentally ill husband, and the "bright and shiny" has worn off her newfound religious beliefs, she has someoene to turn to who she knows will help her.There is a difference between being stuck in a cult with young children with no real way out, thinking your family have totally rejected you, and knowing that you have loving family outside who still care for you and would welcome you home. And if nothing else, it messes with a groups attempt to villify you to her.
Good luck, and again,i am sorry for all you have been through,Yasmin

See [culteducation.com]

This link has information about "coping strategies" that might be helpful.

Dear Karen,
I understand the deepness of your pain over the loss of a daughter to a cult because I was once a lost child to my own parents in an eastern religious group. I was fortunate that I regained my sanity and returned to my family. I am a Jewish father with grown children now. I am very familiar with Chabad, which is no doubt is a Jewish cult. But I also have very friendly relations with some Chabad-niks and Chabad Rabbis. Anyone active in the Jewish community around the world will run into Chabad. Since the death of their Rebbe, Chabad has fractured into two main movements – those that think the Rebbe is Moshiach, and those that don’t, but follow the traditions and teachings of Orthodox Judaism, the Chabad line of Rebbes and Chassidic (mystical) philosophy. Crown Heights and Israel are the most “moshiach” crazy places. Those that have elevated the Rebbe into a position of “Moshiach” are no different than ISKCON, or any religion that promotes a guru system.

Chabad is a prostetizing religion like Islam and Christianity and very unlike conventional Judaism. They run some very good summer camps and day schools that teach traditional Judaic practices and history in outreach or “shliach” territories. But there is too much emphasis on their idea of the redemption and Moshiach. For most Chabad folks, there is no room for Reform or even Conservative thought. Yes, many, but not all, do not consider Reform Jews real Jews. They certainly do not think a child born of a non-Jewish mother and Jewish father to be Jewish and they will be required to convert. Unlike Christianity or Islam, they are not asked to convert and even are discouraged to convert, according to Jewish Law. There is also a considerable amount of prejudice against non-jews or the “goyim”. I find this repugnant. So one must have a considerably good filtration system to learn from them. Children do not naturally acquire this without guidance. Parents need to carefully investigate each Chabad House and each Chabad Rabbi to see if their teachings align with your family values. Otherwise they will suffer the tragedy and loss you are experiencing. It is easy to make the mistake of trusting the so-called religious.

Is there underage drinking at Chabad Houses. Yes, I have seen this and complained about it. Are all Chabad’s alike? No. I have attended Purin and Pesach services in San Diego and other places on the west coast that strictly enforced the laws concerning underage drinking. In fact there is a “sichos” (writing) in which the pre-stroke Rebbe (pre-Moshiach claims) specified the exact amounts of “l’Chaim” (alcohol) allowed for young men in yeshiva (over 21) – ½ a shot! Every age and every occupation (workman vs. torah scholar) had specified amounts. Men were discouraged from heavy drinking until after they were over 40! It is an interesting document. Every young woman in seminary learns this to protect her husband from alcoholism! And alcoholism is a growing problem in the orthodox community, as are drugs, internet porn, and divorce rates (which was once only 5% compared to 50% with the general population). Is this sichos followed? No. It is also not considered “tsniut” (modest) for women to drink or do “L’Chaims’s” at all. They are also not allowed to sing where men are present in the same way. This is followed by fully observant followers, but not young newbies.

Also men and women in the Chassidic community are strictly forbidden to talk and associate with each other unless they are going through the very regulated process of courtship for marriage. Is this strictly followed in the Baal Tshuvah (newly religious Jews who grew up secular.) No. Since your daughter was not a FFB (frum or observant from birth) she did not have the protection of family and community that is afforded by young women FFB. Chabad girls start looking for husbands at age 19. Men, when they are 22. Women are considered old maids if they are not married by 21! This is a cultural expectation for Chassidic Jews that has been going on for 100’s of years.

Are there weirdos, criminals, sexual predators, or the mentally ill hanging around Chabad houses? Yes, I have seen this, as there are in any other religious or charitable organization that tries to help people. The difference is how the Rabbis handle it. I have seen Rabbis call the police, testify in court, and forbid people from showing their face at a Chabad house. From your story, the Rabbi acted unconscionably and I agree that you should complain publicly about his actions if true. I would also find out who his “boss” is and complain there too. Most Chabad Rabbis have a regional director or Rabbi they go to for advice. See if you can find out who that may be. Be a squeaky wheel, but don’t let on you are on a crusade to destroy Chabad. It is not “loshon hara” (evil or slanderous speech forbidden by Jews) if it saves someone from trouble. In fact, one is commanded to speak out to prevent a bad marriage. The Rabbi should have done everything to break up this relationship. But I don’t know all of the circumstances.

The fact that they knew this 32 year old man was mentally unbalanced and did nothing to protect your daughter and possibly helped her to continue a relationship is criminal. I personally would go to an orthodox Bais Din (Jewish Court) to complain. Find one that has non-Chabad Rabbis along with Chabad Rabbis working there. There should be plenty on the east coast. They may help to bring peace between you and your daughter and prevent a disasterous marriage. If your daughter is religious she will be compelled to listen to the opinion of the Bais Din. The commandment to honor your mother and father is still a strong ethos, but they won’t discourage her from an observant life.

Does Chabad raise women to be baby making machines? Yes, but I would not characterize it as such. I have met several Chabad families that are physically and psychologically healthy. I have seen houses filled with joy and the children are well cared for and the wives are happy. It was paradoxical, because I expected the opposite. This picture is often the appeal of Chabad to many people who have come from dysfunctional homes. Even though Chabad discourages a college, I have met many well educated women with 6 to 12 children! And they still had great figures! But there are also families in extreme pain and poverty in America and especially Israel due to their extreme religious affections. I don’t know the true statistics. And my encounters are only anecdotal. I tend to gravitate towards interesting and good people and avoid the negative, and I have friends from all religions and walks of life.

Will going to seminary in Crown Heights (Chabad “Mishahist” Central) brainwash your daughter into believing an assortment of archaic beliefs, that the Rebbe is the Messiah, and reject going to college to get a medical degree? Most definitely, yes. Will she live in poverty or on charitable donations without wealthy parents after she gets married? Yes. Most Chabad men go to yeshiva for a year after marriage. Who foots the bill? The parents or the wife works before and after she has a child. What jobs are available for women? Teaching, secretary chores, working for a sheitel (wig) company, or other low paying jobs approved for an orthodox woman. After Chabad men graduate they become shliachs (missionaries), Rabbis, or go into business (like kosher supervision). Most young men are ill prepared for the responsibilities of family and life. There is a movement to give young men and women (separate schools of course) vocational training in fields such as computers and accounting. But medical school for women is out of the question, sadly (for a variety of sick reasons, such as touching other men in the course of a practice). They have to remain close to the orthodox community working for only orthodox Jewish companies to be able to observe praying 3 times a day and all of the Jewish Holidays that are not part of regular vacation schedules in the secular world. Kosher dietary requirements further the need for isolation in a Jewish community. Baal Tshuvahs who have made a life before they became religious usually fare better financially. I know a college professor, an engineer, accountants, a lawyer, a male physician who are very observant and make it work. There was a woman professor who the Rebbe told to remain at her job. He was the only Chassidic Rabbi that actually encouraged women to be literate and get a good education, including Torah studies. A couple of the Rebbitzins I have met outshine their husbands in Torah knowledge! I know this does not sound helpful, but please bear with me.

Another thing about Chabad outreach centers is that most of the congregants who support the shul are not shomer Shabbat or completely kosher. They drive on Shabbat and eat out at non-kosher restaurants and work on many of the holidays. The Rabbis there are more liberal and tolerant (unlike Crown Heights). I like to go to services and be part of the minion periodically because they are traditional and all in Hebrew. Everyone knows me and that I am not into the Rebbe or being super religious, so they leave me alone. One of my children did some volunteer work in Israel under Chabad to help victims of terror. They tried to get him to become religious, but he took it in stride, did his job and had a great time in Israel. He learned from my experiences in a cult and called me when he had doubts and questions. I raised my children to have good BS meters and allowed them freedom of thought and most of all expect communication.

Right now you are justifiably angry. But I caution you against disinheriting your daughter completely. If you go to war with Chabad, you also risk losing your child and grandchildren as collateral damage. What I am trying to express to you is to try to find a way to stay connected with your daughter at all costs and make peace. Unfortunately, this may mean forgiving her and accepting the fact that she has become religious. She won’t go out to dinner unless it is a kosher restaurant. She will no longer eat your food or stay at your home. She may marry a man you do not respect or like and who is not worthy of her, but as parents, this is an age old problem. I do know non-religious families that have found peace and acceptance with their newly religious children. Your daughter is 18 and whether by undue influence or not, has made her choice. It is unfortunate that she has rejected an incredible opportunity to become a doctor, but there is nothing you can do at this point. It is best to regain loving ties and support her in any way you can (I do not mean financially). As Jasmin suggested, she may burn out and need you in the future. Be there for her. My family was there for me in all phases of my insanity and that made all the difference. It was everything. Without their love and acceptance I would have never escaped the cult. It is not that I did not know that they disapproved of what I was doing and thought I had gone insane (and they were very vocal about it, but never in a way that I did not know that I was always welcome home in spite of our differences), and they never disinherited me on any level. It took me 10 years to leave. They were waiting.

Never lose touch with your daughter. Make sure the Chabad Rabbis or the Bais Din have her call you every week. Visit her often. Do not argue religion. Keep the conversations light and positive. Bring her kosher (cholov Israel) chocolate! Make her include you in her life and experiences. This may mean you have to suffer hearing a lot of religious garbage for awhile. She may judge you for not covering your hair. Bear it in silence only to keep her communicating. That is the key. Going to war with Chabad will not work, but only serve to alienate you further from her. What is important to you?

Going after the specific Rabbi that may have been an accomplice in an inappropriate relationship is what I would do. I would make a big stink! I think that you can have more impact and make changes locally than to take on the whole of Chabad which does not, as a religious entity condone any of the activities that you have described. That’s my opinion. I wish you much success.

Much sound advice... thanks for taking the time to post.

I am sure that time will heal... I am very very angry and disappointed right now. As a Mother it is really almost too much to bear and it is putting a strain on our marriage and family.

Please pray for us.

Thank you for all of your insights and advice... it is truly most appreciated.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 12:55AM by rrmoderator.